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Ron’s HeliProz South . MTA Hobbies . Model Rectifier Corp

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Scale Model RC Helicopters > lightening 5 blade head 10mm main shaft
 
 
ruizmilton
Heliman
Location: Carolina, Puerto Rico, US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Daniel:

I agree this topic should avoid the hi-tech words so not to become more confusing, I believe Dave already has gotten the 90 degree gyroscopic precesion thing...

Dave:

The truth is that the "90 degrees before the effect on the plane of rotation" is not an exact number, it's closer to 88 degrees, there are many more elements to it than just the ones discussed here, but it's fairly close, you should always follow the 90 degree rule, avoid the temptation to move your follower from this setting to match things up.

Again, if you set up your links at "90 degrees from the swash" and when you run your heli the disk reacts 45 degrees earlier thats because the rotor is below the RPM range required for it to reach dynamic stability, only after that range is reached, the 90 degree rule will work and not fluctuate. Actually, if you could recreate the experience while increasing the RPM's, with a "front" command you would see your rotor tilted to the left/front and watch the tilt move to the front position as the RPM are increased to the "stability range".

With 5 blades or more, you will mostly not be able to keep the 90 degrees without linkage binding, that's because the distance between the blades is less than 90 degrees (72 degress for a 5 blade head, 60 degress for a 6 blade head and so on) When that happens, then "swash mix" or the rotation on the horizontal planes of the swash axes is used to keep the 90 degrees between the swash movement and the blade.

I will place another post where I explained a fellow heli pilot on RCU the differences between FB and FBL heads, it will give you a better idea of how things work.
08-27-2009 01:44 AM
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ruizmilton
Heliman
Location: Carolina, Puerto Rico, US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
FB vs FBL, phasing, stability ETC

Dave:

This is the explanation I mentioned on the previous post I gave a fellow Heli Pilot:


"This is what I can tell you from my multiblade experience, in most respects I felt that response around the centering of
the cyclic seems more sensitive compared to a flybarred head, yet that's where it ends, meaning that after you bank or
pitch a few degrees from center the fast response ends, the machine had more of a "float" feeling compared to a flybar head,
and dissimetry of lift (retreating blade stall) is more noticeable, not that it is something that does not happens to the
flybar head, but the flybar will compensate for that making you feel like it does not happen. Same goes for the "ballooning",
some flybar heads still exhibit this tendency, yet in most it is compensated properly by the flybar, so I guess it all goes
back to really understanding how a heli flies and applying this understanding to the way you fly.

Aside from what a flybar stabilization mechanism will do, everything else is the same. A stabilization system provides the
same correction ability of a flybar by reducing dissimetry of lift and balloning, but if you understand how the machine flies
and learn how to adjust there is no need for them. A mixer allows you to change swash timming, below you'll see you can do
that in your computer radio with no need for an external mixer. What a mixer does provide is the ability of mixing a gyro
output to three controls, that is important ONLY if you want to have stabilization on a CCPM system where all comands are
shared by all three head servos as opposed to a single servo collective where elevator is one servo and aileron is one as
well.


Most issues related to multi blade set-ups are related to swashplate phasing, there are two reasons:

1)The more blades you have, the less space is available on the rotorhead and swashplate to accomodate the required 90 degrees
from swash control ball to blade holder control ball, this happens on rotorheads with 5 blades or more. This can be corrected
by swash mixing to compensate for where your pushrod will be located in relation to the machine's centerline on fore/aft or
left/right orientation in order to compensate for the required amount of degrees to reach 90. In a 5 blade head you only have
72 degrees between each blade, so in order to have all pushrods perfectly vertical to avoid binding and non-linear response,
you cannot achieve the 90 degrees required between the swash ball and the blade holder ball, but by properly mixing aileron
to elevator and elevator to aileron you can "rotate" the swash timing so that a command happens 18 degrees later (or earlier)
from the centerline of the fuselage. If it has to happen earlier or later depends on wether you have a leading edge or
trailing edge controled blade holder and your rotor's rotation direction (CW or CC). Any computer radio can do this, there is
no need for an external mixer.

2)Tendency to run head at a lower RPM than required to stabilize, every head/blade combination is different and the minimum
specific RPM required to achieve stability on the system has to be reached before the head will respond to the inputs on the
90 degress due to gyroscopic precession . This RPM/phasing issue does not happen on flybar heads because your swashplate does
not directly control the blades, the flybar does, the flybar is mechanicaly positioned at 90 degrees to the main blades
(up/down travel of a paddle will always be at 90 degress from a main blade) and is controled aerodynamically, meaning that
AIR FLOW controls it, so there is no gyroscopic precession de-phasing, PLUS, there is stability added by the flybar, meaning
that control input will always affect it in the correct phasing, try to picture it and you'll see what I mean. If the rotor
head would have responded to an input with a 45 degree lead due to low RPM(you give forward cyclic but head goes forward and
left) the fly bar would give a "right" correction to the blades, but no correction to the "forward", left and right would
cancel each other and you would only get a forward response.

Makes sense????"
08-27-2009 01:48 AM
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dave evo
Heliman
Location: north west uk

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
gents you have been brilliant with your responses thank you very much ..

i will work on it and check my head speed,


another point i have is when your doing an auto with a multi and the head speed drops at the end of the auto does this affect the inputs in the same way ??

if so surely you would lose control of the heli just before landing due to low head speed and the associated delayed inputs or have i got that bit wrong ??


thanks once again and look forward to the youtube set up guide

08-28-2009 09:54 PM
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James
Senior Heliman
Location: Del Mar California

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Nice rotor head because it's made out of strong aluminum and not harden plastic
very nice indeed!

Jim

cheers - Jim
. US Coast Guard
08-28-2009 11:35 PM
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jackheli
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver - Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hi guys,

please mind my intrusion and lack of knowledge... I also have a Hughes 500MD and was planning on going 5 bladed. Trying to decided between the Century and Aerodyne setup. Century is much more expensive once you add the swash and follower.

So my question is: is the Lightning heli V2 head the same as the Aerodyne?



Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new
Albert Einstein
08-29-2009 12:21 AM
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ruizmilton
Heliman
Location: Carolina, Puerto Rico, US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Dave:

The answer to your question about RPM on an auto is yes, you would have less than aceptable control as you loose RPM's on an auto, what I can tell you though, is that by the time you loose as much RPM as you stated, you would not have enough rotor inertia to save your heli anyways regardless of the rotor head, I have tested my helis on hovering autos (these are the worst conditions)and have had two unplanned engine outs and so far have never had lost rotorhead control phasing prior to landing. Remember that a properly done auto would have the rotor increase RPM when you do your pitch up flare before the collective flare...

Though you might want to see one of my babys...

08-29-2009 02:08 AM
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ruizmilton
Heliman
Location: Carolina, Puerto Rico, US

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Jackheli:

As far as I know the rotorheads sold by Aerodyne are Lightnings except for the 500 4 blader that has rigid pitch links that eliminate the need for a follower, that one is manufactured by Aerodyne, but I might be wrong...
08-29-2009 02:16 AM
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january flyer
Senior Heliman
Location: Lake Charles Louisiana 70601

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Lightning heads sold by Aerodyne are made by Lightning for Aerodyne to their standards, so you don't get a unit that has a 50/50 chance of working. I have their 4 bladed head and it works fine. Aerodyne is making their own rotorheads all made in the USA. I have their 450 size 4 blade head on my T T Mini Titan E325-SE in a T T 109 K2 body. Testing on the bigger heads will be underway soon from what I was told by them. Take care!

Ace Thunder Tiger Louisiana Scale Field Rep
08-29-2009 04:14 AM
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dave evo
Heliman
Location: north west uk

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
RUIZMILTON

that is one fine lookin heli i love that shell

this is the same head as mine on a trex 600

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGq7cxKx6c8

08-29-2009 08:46 AM
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NoLuckChuck
Senior Heliman
Location: Savannah, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Thanks for all the great explanations. I am about to buy the Century multi bladed setup for a Tow Defender or something. It does not really matter to me, but I want a multi-bladed head! I will use my Swift or a T-Rex 600.
09-22-2009 04:14 PM
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WrenFlyer
Senior Heliman
Location: Aberdeen, MS USA

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Might as well jump on this topic....my Century 50 size 5 blade head will be arriving today!

Alan Haney
09-22-2009 06:13 PM
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avalon
Heliman
Location: Sydney Australia

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WrenFlyer. I am looking at a 5 blade head and would like to read your opinion of the one you bought

There I was inverted nothing on the clock but the makers name and only the joystick in my hand
10-01-2009 01:29 PM
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Antsis
Senior Heliman
Location: Kent, United Kingdom

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Hi All

Just received my 5 blade head from RC-Aerodyne and when checking it over, found some of the grips feel as if the thrust washer bearings are notchy. It may just be that they're a little tight.
Anyone else had this?

One other question;
What length of pitch link rods are you using?

Ant
10-01-2009 03:37 PM
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WrenFlyer
Senior Heliman
Location: Aberdeen, MS USA

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Quote 
WrenFlyer. I am looking at a 5 blade head and would like to read your opinion of the one you bought



So far, everything looks good. There are a couple of items that I'm not happy with. First, 4 out of 5 thrust bearings had 2 outer races. The second issue is that the balls for the head have short threads on them they have very little screwed into the plastic. This will probably be OK, but to a little extra assurance on my part I'm replacing them with balls with a longer threaded section. Both of these issues are minor, overall it's a beautiful head! The head button is of a Gohbee Phazor.









Alan Haney
10-01-2009 04:32 PM
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James
Senior Heliman
Location: Del Mar California

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nice rotor head can't wait to get mind together after i paint my hughes 500 body.

cheers

cheers - Jim
. US Coast Guard
10-01-2009 07:43 PM
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NoLuckChuck
Senior Heliman
Location: Savannah, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
WrenFlyer,

Is that a T-Rex 500 with the 5-blade head? Looks good. Is the head a Century, because I am looking at ordering the same head. Thank you
10-02-2009 09:06 AM
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WrenFlyer
Senior Heliman
Location: Aberdeen, MS USA

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No, It's a Trex 600.

Alan Haney
10-02-2009 01:37 PM
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Antsis
Senior Heliman
Location: Kent, United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hi Guys

I noticed in the pics that the blade grips have been flipped over so that the links are at the leading edge of the blade, whereas the standard setup is with the links at the trailing edge. Was wondering how this affects the flight characteristics if any?

Ant
10-02-2009 02:51 PM
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WrenFlyer
Senior Heliman
Location: Aberdeen, MS USA

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For some reason, FBL works better with leading edge control. Someone smarter than me will have to answer that.

Alan Haney
10-02-2009 03:40 PM
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MadDawgHeliman - Location: Houston, TX - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Century Diamond .30-.50 5 Bladed head

Guys,

I'm curious as no one seems to mention in all my searching on the net about how well the Century 5 .30-.50 blade head unit fits the 10mm shaft. I know the larger Century Diamond 5-blade 50-60 head unit is a bit loose and requires some customizing to fit right using the 10mm sleeve adapter. I own this one myself and have not modified it yet to fit my Trex 600. I also have the Vario 5 swashplate and follower. If the .30-.50 unit works well I have an all aluminum 50-60 one to sell/trade at reduced cost.

So, was looking to those who own the century 30-50 size head to comment on fit to a 10mm shaft. Did it fit without mods, etc.....

Also, What size blades are you using? 550mm or 530mm. What brands and who did you order them from so they were close in weight?

Thanks,

MadDawg
10-20-2009 07:36 PM
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Scale Model RC Helicopters > lightening 5 blade head 10mm main shaft
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