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Model Rectifier Corp . ReadyHeli . Power Helis

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Aerial Photography and Video > Minicopter Tail Motor Dual Drive conversion kit.
 
 
nooobs
Elite Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

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It's been out for awhile...

Just wanted to share a video of my first test flight. It's a bit dark. Taken before sunset.

06-30-2009 05:21 PM
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aeronautica
Heliman
Location: Colombia

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nice flight

It looks to fly right, and the duration is OK, how much endurance difference did you find? Is the same?

Your flight was so stable; do you use any stabilization system?

Congratulations, it looks to be a winning project

regards

Juan Felipe
06-30-2009 05:34 PM
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Seablade
Key Veteran
Location: floating around

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Great timing nooobs!
I just waiting on the new bank account to kick in to order mine. Hopefully tonight!
What size battery are you using for the tail? Or are you running off the main motor battery?

"Vini, Vidi, Velcro"
06-30-2009 05:39 PM
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

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Looking silky smooth.

DJ-Roso you are "electric".

Robert
N.A. DJI Distributor
06-30-2009 06:56 PM
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nooobs
Elite Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

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Juan

I've gained 2 1/2 minutes.

Before this mod flying at 22 lbs at 1250 was impossible.

Now it's heavier and it flies even better and longer.

Stabilizer is HC Rigid.


Steve

I'm using 4s 3600 lipo for the tail. I used 184 mah /min. You could see it hanging on the boom near the fuse. You'll need an airplane tachometer to set the RPM. I've set mine to 6600.


Robert

Time to pull out my twelves and mixer...
06-30-2009 07:53 PM
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fionn
Senior Heliman
Location: Ireland

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Looks great Noobs.
I'm a bit confused about the whole product line up, Is the direct drive with the motor on the tail shaft just a J2 upgrade?
As I understand it the 3DD puts the tail motor in the main frames with either belt or shaft drive while the J3 is similar to the J2.
For AP use it would be nice if a motor with a suitable kv to run off the main packs could be used, one less set to charge etc.
06-30-2009 10:56 PM
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nooobs
Elite Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

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The DD with the motor on the tail can be used on any Joker.

The 3DD where the motor is in the main frames can be used for 3D flying. You have the option of using either belt or torque tube.
06-30-2009 11:16 PM
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andyman_sf
Senior Heliman
Location:

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So you gained 2 1/2 min by doing the conversion but I"m also assuming that has something to do with adding more batteries too. If you have a 4s 3600mah battery on the rear only (roughly 53WattHour), If a person were to add 53Watt-hour of power to the standard batteries, would it be safe to assume a person could gain 2.5 minutes also?

I've got a 6S 5000 battery or about (22.2 *5 = 111 watt hour). So adding 40% more energy into my system should give me more then 2.5 min...So upgrading the 6S 5000 to a 6S 6600 or 6S8000 should be almost the same, with the same weight penelty minus the extra weight of the motor.


Anyway not trying to knock the dual drive setup, just want to get a clearer picture. I got really excited when you posted about the additional 2.5 min then I realized there really isn't that much energy loss driving the tail with a belt..
06-30-2009 11:26 PM
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eyeinsky
Veteran
Location: Fall River, Nova Scotia, Canada

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Nooobs


Looking good You moved the camera and the main battery closer to the center of gravity, do you like the operation better that way? The extra weight on the tail helped?

I finally finished mine. Check out my latest video http://www.vimeo.com/5329254

Cheers Jerry

Hard job competing with gravity.
06-30-2009 11:31 PM
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fionn
Senior Heliman
Location: Ireland

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Cool, does "857 Tailmotor DualDrive Set" include the motor & esc then? The minicopter online shop isnt the most detailed.
My only concern would be possible interference from the long motor wires.
06-30-2009 11:32 PM
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nooobs
Elite Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

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andyman_sf

The way I look at it; it is giving the main rotor as much power as possible. I don't really care too much about the gained flight time.

The tail rotor is on its own therefore it's not robbing power from the main rotor. Giving the main rotor a smoother and consistent run. Also I've noticed there is less vibes overall with the tail rotor.

You could run the main rotor at a slower head speed and carry heavier payload. Have you ever flown at 1250 head speed at 22 lbs? Try it. You'll see what I mean. I carried a heavier camera payload and it flew even better as shown on the video.

In an emergency you could autorotate and still have tail control.
If the tail blows out you can shut it off unlike a belt or TT driven tail.

Personally the tail motor is the way to go for AP.

Flybarless? mmm... increased flight time?



Jerry

Yes, I'm still playing with various set ups for the camera. The closer to the main shaft the better. The motor and esc weight on the tail is negligible. It's so light.

Nice flying. I'm jealous you got to fly in there! Next time...



fionn

Yes the DD set comes with motor, esc and hardware.
I have the esc near the motor. Keep the wires between the motor and esc as short as you can. I made an extension for the battery wires to suit the placement for CG.
06-30-2009 11:53 PM
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eyeinsky
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Location: Fall River, Nova Scotia, Canada

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nooobs

Had too Rained out here all last week. The yard was still wet but I had to get the heli up for a flight the sun came finally came out for the sunset.

Quote 
The motor and esc weight on the tail is negligible. It's so light.

It may be a small weight but because of the length of the moment arm it has huge impact on moving the C of G AFT. With the camera and battery positioned close to the C of G will makes a nice flying ship.

I'm taking a break from the R N D and concentrating on some air time.

Cheers Jerry

Hard job competing with gravity.
07-01-2009 01:26 AM
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andyman_sf
Senior Heliman
Location:

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I really don't want to be the critic and I am really considering the same setup as you. Would love to see some vibration analysis if you have the means to produce graphs of before and after. Also couldn't you gain said power by simply increasing the voltage, ie 6s?


Putting aside my doubts, do you have to turn on the tail on a seperate channel? What is your startup sequence? With an extra set of batteries, how do you monitor it? Do you use 3 sets (1 main, 1 tail, 1 receiver?) All very curious questions.. I'm trying to justify to myself having to deal with another set of packs and seeing if the pro's outweigh the cons.

Lets say I decided to use the main pack for the tail also, couldn't I just spin it at a certain RPM (find a motor that was decided to spin at a low speed with high voltage?)

I guess the last question would go to Gerd..
07-01-2009 06:22 AM
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borneobear
Veteran
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

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I love this idea to death. I would do one my own but can't find a motor with that length of 5mm shaft.
Oh the endless possibilities.....
07-01-2009 07:13 AM
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Flightlutions
Senior Heliman
Location: NYC

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What size tail blades are you using?

http://flightlutions.com
07-01-2009 07:45 AM
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eyeinsky
Veteran
Location: Fall River, Nova Scotia, Canada

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Question to all

The direct drive tail makes sense. What about direct drive main rotor as well? I have seen some low KV motor that would fit this build, like a pancake motor hub from an electric bike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33uC...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSFE...=response_watch

Anyone out there tried this?

Hard job competing with gravity.
07-01-2009 11:45 AM
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papatango
Veteran
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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LMAO...... See what you started Ros? You'll be answering questions till the cows come home!!!
07-01-2009 11:52 AM
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

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Mooooo

Robert
N.A. DJI Distributor
07-01-2009 01:49 PM
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levelflight
Heliman
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

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I don't mean to be too critical but it's pretty hard to judge the stability of the helicopter with footage from a hand held camera. It would be nice to see this footage with the camera locked solid on a tripod.
07-02-2009 05:11 AM
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borneobear
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Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

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Quote 
I don't mean to be too critical...

Whats there to be critical off?
Here's the logic:

1. Our 600 and above sized helis can carry our camera gear and then some. i.e. Weight is not an issue.

2. By using only one power pack (lipo) to power both the main rotor and the tail rotor, you're maximizing the discharge stress on that single power pack - as compared to using two power packs, one for each rotor.

3. Similarly for the motor, using only one motor to power both the main and tail rotors is exponentially more stressful, when compared to sharing the load on to two motors.

4. By having two separate motors, the RPM for both can now be precisely controlled for optimum power utilization. You can't do that with a single motor and single power system - too low head speed and your tail wouldn't have enough torque to hold.

5. When you optimize both main motor and tail motor function, it also means you're reducing loading stress on both. Therefore, lipo last longer as will the motor.

6. No belt or torque tube to sap energy. One less source of vibration.

7. When you reduce loading stress and optimize power utilization, you ultimately reduce vibration (vibration = wasted energy).

8. You can now position the tail rotor anywhere you like.

yada yada yada...

The above does not comply for nitro or gas or turbine powered AP helis.

BB
07-02-2009 05:36 AM
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