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Kyosho Caliber-3-5-6-Series F3C-Caliber-90 > FBL Caliber5 without a stab sytem
 
 
robl45
Key Veteran
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

couldn't you just take the flybar paddles off and get basically the same effect?
10-14-2009 11:19 PM
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ShuRugal
Senior Heliman
Location: Blacksburg, VA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		no, if you took the paddles off, the bar would still be acting to stabilize the system, and you would lower cyclic response.

AMA 700159
10-14-2009 11:35 PM
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yeah, some very weird things will start to happen. A non-flying stabilizer bar actually works in reverse if not dampened. If you look closely at a Huey head stab bar, there are two hydraulic dampers attached to the bar so that it's not totally free to teeter. They are the round doo-dads below the rotor head attached to the mast.

10-15-2009 12:36 AM
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heli-cuzz
Key Veteran
Location: Pittston, Pa. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
So do you think the electronic FBL system is a lot of Hype meaning the average pserson can go out and try it with out any major steress ?

I don't think its hype, but do think anyone with experience flying a heli should have no problems flying stab free. Some may not like it due to the fact you don't have an axis unit helping out with cyclic inputs.


Quote 
Hey Heli-Cuzz,

I was wondering, is the mixing on your FBL Cal5 the stock mechanical mixing or the upgrade kit eccpm?

I've always flown the eccpm on the Calibers. I like the fact you have three servos operating the pitch and elevator inputs and two operating the aileron inputs.

Quote 
couldn't you just take the flybar paddles off and get basically the same effect?

I had a go at that. I had a twisted paddle so decided to see what would happen without paddles. Not even close to getting off the ground. I think it would work if you locked the flybar but not like it would vs. a FBL rotorhead.
As Erich stated, you'd definitely need to dampen the flybar and even then weird things can probably happen.

Quote 
Cuzz-o-matic flybarless system...

I think I am going to give this a try...I happened to pick up an Os .37 powered Rap 30 v2 the other day....my lack of caring for the heli is really driving me to give a stab free setup a try

I am going to try the rjx 50 head on the rap 30 and give it a go with the Cuzz-o-matic setup...

Rock on my brother. I knew you'd have to find a beater to see what the stab free is all about.
Anthony, I'm loving the Outrage head!
I do have one question.... I want hard dampers, what brand will fit the Outrage head and where can I find them?
10-15-2009 03:19 AM
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Jag72
Elite Veteran
Location: 20 minutes south of Boston Mass...

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Dampners...

I use the green KBDD ones and like them alot...if the greens aren't hard enough for you try the orange ones...they are even harder..

Anthony

Esprit Model Flight Team
10-15-2009 03:07 PM
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Jag72
Elite Veteran
Location: 20 minutes south of Boston Mass...

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Flybarless Rap 30

going to try this one without a STAB unit

Weather is bad today so no flying...I am anxious to give it a try


Esprit Model Flight Team
10-16-2009 03:40 PM
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egiraldo911
New Heliman
Location: San Antonio, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I got it flying!

I did my first hover flight with the STAB free FBL head yesterday. It was a very short flight because it was late, but, I got a feel for it. All I can say is WOW!!! It caught me by surprise. It is not the same as the regular head with flybar. I like it a lot. It is very responsive and quick, so, I would not do it in the backyard until you get a feel for it. I was a little bit nervous at first. I did not know what to expaect. I spooled up and slowly I got it up in the air. Very stable. I just freaked out a bit when I started applying cyclic. You do more now with the sticks than before. I would recommed to get a lot of expo, specially more for elevator. I would say 30% for ailaron and 35% for elevator. Also, reduce rates to 80-85%. Man! I like the feel of it. I can't wait to get it up in the air and actually fly it. I will post more later.







I am using the RJX head. Very nice head, but, I did some modifications to improve it. The first one was to change the links. The original links did not feel good at all. Very flimsy and did not have a strong snap on the ball links. I also change the driver arms and replaced them with the stock T-Rex 700 arms, but, modified. They sit at a better angle to the swash plate and also have a better connection with the ball links. To modified the arms, I had to cut the longer sides of them and filed the edges. I am also using one Jesus bolt instead of two side bolts. I like it this way because it drops the head down by a centimeter or so and that gave me more room on the link rods to make adjustments.
10-16-2009 03:51 PM
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Kevinator9
Senior Heliman
Location: North Shore, New Zealand

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		This is tempting me even!

Let us know jag how it goes!

Caliber 6
Agusta 109A (Caliber 3)
Caliber 450v
10-16-2009 08:27 PM
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heli-cuzz
Key Veteran
Location: Pittston, Pa. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
This is tempting me even!

You're next.
10-18-2009 12:34 PM
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Kevinator9
Senior Heliman
Location: North Shore, New Zealand

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well there is a compass fbl head sitting in the hobby shop I work at atm
Will any fbl head do as well as any other?

Caliber 6
Agusta 109A (Caliber 3)
Caliber 450v
10-18-2009 06:47 PM
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ruddernate
Key Veteran
Location: sulphur,Ok.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		hey guys, i'm working on a scale long ranger. my plan was to go flybarless without electronics. good to hear some great success stories. i usually don't run DR but will with this setup. i'm still undecided on which head. it'll be going on a r50v2. thanks for all the good info guys.

fly it like you stole it
10-19-2009 05:37 AM
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Jag72
Elite Veteran
Location: 20 minutes south of Boston Mass...

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		okay....so here's my input...post flight

Keep in mind I am basing my opinion on the flight of a Raptor 30(with an OS .37)...it is NO powerhouse by any means.

I flew a fewtanks on this heli today...it is WINDY here in Boston Today...at least 15-20mph winds....

I started it up and took off with no problems...INSTANTLY i noticed how unstable it is in a hover...there is NO center and no smooth hover point...maybe it was the wind...

after a few minutes of getting used to it though I had a pretty good time flying it..Piro flips/rolls/funnels etc...no problem

I did try some inverted piro funnels with it also and the machine actually flew pretty good...it flew about as good as it did with a flybar...only with more cyclic speed and power...BUT...when the wind hit it ...it is a bit unpredictable with no stab unit...


My Opinion?

3d flying(stickbanging) is fine...but even doing 3d you get a bit of an uneasy feeling of instability at times...okay though...

Hovering.....VERY unstable and a bit hard to handle...

I think this is perfectly fine for a crappy cheap machine if you just want to beat on it...but if you really care about your machine and want it to fly as good as it can...then go with a stab unit...


Just my .02


Anthony

Esprit Model Flight Team
10-19-2009 03:27 PM
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robl45
Key Veteran
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		did you add in extra expo to compensate for no stab unit?
10-19-2009 04:21 PM
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Jag72
Elite Veteran
Location: 20 minutes south of Boston Mass...

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yes...

I tried expo and it still was not good...


I have quite a bit of experience with these flybarless setups as I have been flying them for a few years and many machines now..I prefer the feel of the stab unit myself...if you can't afford a stab unit...then fly the flybar...

Esprit Model Flight Team
10-19-2009 04:25 PM
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egiraldo911
New Heliman
Location: San Antonio, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I finally got the chance to go out and fly my naked FBL 700e this weekend. I was very anxious to get the field and finally experience myself what averyone has been talking about...the naked FBL! I was very careful as I did not know what to expect. I spooled it up slowly and gently put some more collective. Then, it was there, 4ft off the ground, hovering. But, I found myself fighting with the stick too much to keep it stable at hover. It was not that bad though, it was manageable, but, less stable than with the flybar. Then, I tried some mild 3D; flips, rolls, tic-tocs and I was just so amazed how fast this maneuvers happened. Wow! It seemed like the heli want it to do them by itself. Very nice in that aspect. Then, I did some FFF. Man! now, this part was really horrible. The heli always wanted to go nose up. Constantly. Some times unspectedly. I guess all depended on the wind. I did not like that at all. Even on the bank turns it wanted to do that. Finally, my time was up. I brought it back to base and I started thinking about the whole experience. Here is my conclusion:

FFF is not good, very stressful.
I am not a master 3D flyer, but, the few things that I could do were very nicely handled by the heli. I loved this part of it.
Hovering, unstable and not pleasent. It had some out of trim tendencies that I could not correct for nothing. They were always changing with wind direction and speed. Therefore, not accurate.

Naked FBL is not going to be for me yet. I am not ready for it. I was able to manage it, but, it was not very pleasant. I still enjoy doing more FFF than 3D at this point. I will keep the FBL head thouhg and go for a cheap FBL system like the SK360.

Definitively not for beginners, or intermidiate. I think this is more enjoyable by more advanced pilots.
10-19-2009 04:26 PM
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tommytt1
Veteran
Location: Mercerville, NJ, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Cuzz, you created quite a buzz in the FBLess forum! I enjoyed reading the debate (argument).
I noticed some pilots are experiencing ballooning pitch up and other tendencies, IMHO basically can be counteracted through the mixes that our radios already come with. Cuzz thanks for leading the way in FBL for the few Kyosho guys on this forum, and maybe in the near future will try this one for myself. Tom

I made a mistake once, but I was wrong?
10-31-2009 12:37 PM
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dcbusdriver
Heliman
Location: Stephens City,VA -USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Naked FBL R30

Well, I did the same with my raptor 30 here recently. Modified stock metalhead and plastic washout arms to make a FBL head. On the bench this thing had pitch in the range of +/- 13 and the cyclic around 12 degrees. Dumbed it down to +/- 10 on the pitch and 7 degrees on the cyclic about what I had with the flybar and used about 10% expo. I would report about the same as everyone else. Wicked response on the cyclic and pitchy in FFF. Definitely neutraly stable in the hover and takes some concentration to avoid pio. being a little inquisitive maybe I'll try a cheap hh gyro on the pitch axis for sags. :-)
Good luck to all on the "Naked Front"! DC

beating the air into submission...........cool!
11-04-2009 03:00 PM
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dialarotor
Key Veteran
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Am I missing anything? If I just pull the mixing levers and flybar and cage and just make up some bigger rods to go from the swash to the blade grips if the balls extend far enough to be 90 degrees to the mainmast and run all the phasing at 90 degrees, chop down the range and use some expo and get use to it. What makes a head flybarless versus the standard head block without all the flybar junk?
11-06-2009 12:03 AM
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heli-cuzz
Key Veteran
Location: Pittston, Pa. USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
What makes a head flybarless versus the standard head block without all the flybar junk?

The FBL head I am flying requires no modifications, unlike a standard headblock, it will require some modifying to make it FBL.



Quote 
Cuzz, you created quite a buzz in the FBLess forum! I enjoyed reading the debate (argument).
I noticed some pilots are experiencing ballooning pitch up and other tendencies, IMHO basically can be counteracted through the mixes that our radios already come with. Cuzz thanks for leading the way in FBL for the few Kyosho guys on this forum, and maybe in the near future will try this one for myself. Tom

LoL Tom

I'm just having a lot of fun flying my naked FBL. Ofcourse its not going to fly like a stabi FBL.
On the subject of naked vs. stabilization...
... That's like comparing apples to oranges... They're both similar in many ways, yet still very different.
11-08-2009 02:28 PM
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pgoelz
Veteran
Location: Rochester MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I experimented with a flybarless collective pitch Piccolo many years ago and found that teeter damping made a HUGE difference. My setup was similar to the old Hornet, with undamped teeter. However, I added a piece of surgical tubing and a compression screw that could vary the damping continuously from near zero to very stiff.

http://pgoelz.com/piccolo_collective01.html

With light damping, it was VERY responsive and VERY unstable in a hover. As the damping was increased, it got more and more stable until it was TOO stable and had little cyclic authority. In between, it was easy to hover and fly around, but did have a pronounced pitch up in FF or in wind. Head speed was around 1800 RPM and the blades were home made (miniature CP blades didn't exist yet).

I did find that the required cyclic movement from the swash was less than half what it was with a flybar, so I reduced the throws mechanically. However, it was accordingly more susceptible to swash bearing play issues.

My suggestion would be to try increasing the stiffness of the dampers and see if you can fine tune the damping to produce a more controllable hover.

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com
11-10-2009 06:05 PM
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Kyosho Caliber-3-5-6-Series F3C-Caliber-90 > FBL Caliber5 without a stab sytem
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