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Aerial Photography and Video > Autorotation with an undercarriage camera mount
 
 
davejoyce2000
Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Is it possible for an heli equipped with an undercarriage camera mount to do an autorotation and land safely without any damages to camera and heli? I'm planning on mounting a really expensive $5K camera to my heli and want to make sure it is possible to autorotate safely. Is it more difficult to autorotate with a camera carriage on than without one?
06-27-2009 04:28 AM
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trackhead
Key Veteran
Location: utah

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Often times it's helpful to include the following before one can answer your question.

1. What heli are you flying?
2. What size are the main blades?
3. What is the total payload including camera and mount?
06-27-2009 05:04 AM
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efliernz
Veteran
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have (had to due to a failure) auto'd my stock Trex-600E with 1.5Kg of load on a still day from 100 feet. I flew over a fence and landed beside myself - changed the nappy afterwards!!! You only get one shot at it - it is very tight.

The stretched Trex600 (690 blades) auto's easy with 1.5Kg underneath. I've practiced it with a dummy-camera at 2Kg.

As Trackhead has asked - what heli/blades/camera???

Pete, Trex500, Trex600E, Streched 600, DSX9, DX7, Low-volt alarms - check the gallery for my alarms
06-27-2009 05:36 AM
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SeismicCWave
Veteran
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		It is more a question of your ability to autorotate then the helicopter having an under slung camera mount.

First of all you need two things to autorotate successfully. 1) Altitude, 2) Airspeed. If you have neither you will not be able to auto no matter what you have.

Besides that the question will be your blade loading. Pretty much like wing loading on an airplane. The heavier the blade loading the harder it is to build up enough inertia in the blades to perform an auto.

So the trick is not to over load a small helicopter. For example I wouldn't want to autorotate a Trex 450 loaded with a point and shoot camera. If in $5,000 you meant a DSLR. I suspect you are talking about something in the range of the Canon 5DMk2 or Nikon D700 plus some wide angle lens. Neither setup will be very good to auto in a Trex 600 with stock blades. Of course other members will jump in about now to prove that I am wrong and so and so had done a successful auto with just that setup.

We are not talking about black and white here. On a good day when you have plenty of altitude and lots of airspeed and a wide open space with a little head wind, you can glide a Trex 600 loaded with those DSLR. However the question really is if you feel lucky or not.;-)
06-27-2009 08:18 AM
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efliernz
Veteran
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
However the question really is if you feel lucky or not.;-)

Oh yeah!!!

I've been lucky 3 out of 4 times. I've improved my risk by going bigger...

Pete, Trex500, Trex600E, Streched 600, DSX9, DX7, Low-volt alarms - check the gallery for my alarms
06-27-2009 10:51 PM
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SeismicCWave
Veteran
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		>>I've improved my risk by going bigger...<<

Bigger is always better. I tried and failed many times with those little Piccolos and Hornets.
06-28-2009 05:31 AM
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davejoyce2000
Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Specs.

I'm flying the Maxi-Joker with 830mm Rotor-Tech blades with a Nikon D3X as a payload. Do you think it will be easy to autorotate and land safely without damaging the underslung mount and camera?
06-28-2009 06:15 PM
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SeismicCWave
Veteran
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Again, if you have enough altitude and airspeed and you have a lot of practice then you should be able to autorotate your setup. A Maxi Joker with a D3X is not really that bad. A bit heavy but not impossible. Make sure you have a good quality camera mount.

However, let's think about the different scenario why you have to autorotate a Maxi Joker down. It is an electric helicopter so it is not very likely that the motor is going to quit on you suddenly. If the battery gets low you should have a little bit of time to realize it and land it safely. Unless of course you have some sort of speed controller failure which is unlikely except for a short from flying in the rain.

That leaves the other scenario where you have to pull the auto switch. That would be some sort of mechanical failure to the tail rotor and your helicopter is spinning out of control. In this scenario you will really need calm nerves to not panic and actually take the helicopter to a safe altitude so you can gain some airspeed to bring the heli down.

Either way practice is your friend. If you practice autorotation often you will be less likely to panic when actual emergencies occur.
06-28-2009 07:20 PM
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GyroFreak
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida ... 28° 52' N 81° 16' W

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
if you have enough altitude and airspeed
I'm not sure why you say that ?. I have saved my Spectra G with 720 blades from 5 feet and 15 feet (no forward speed) feet with gentle landing due to the inertia of the blades and a short cyclic management..

Bacteria They're the only culture some men have
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is opti
06-28-2009 07:35 PM
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SeismicCWave
Veteran
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		>>I'm not sure why you say that ?. I have saved my Spectra G with 720 blades from 5 feet and 15 feet (no forward speed) feet with gentle landing due to the inertia of the blades and a short cyclic management..<<

Conventional wisdom. From 5 to 15 feet is really not an autorotation but a power off landing. Every helicopter has an envelope to bring down safely without power and each of them are slightly different.
06-28-2009 07:56 PM
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GyroFreak
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida ... 28° 52' N 81° 16' W

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Agreed, thanks.
Paul

Bacteria They're the only culture some men have
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is opti
06-28-2009 08:13 PM
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ehx
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern Minnesota

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Trackhead's question #3 still hasn't been answered. What's the total payload? That's important.

One simple way to look at autorotation possibilities is how much reserve payload capacity you have when flying normally. If you can double the payload and the heli still flys OK autorotations will probably be fairly easy. If adding just a little more payload means you can't even get off the ground autorotations will be difficult to impossible.

Rerazor has a picture of a Maxi Joker carrying a LX3 in his Cottage Video thread. A very lightweight setup that can auto from any height and no forward speed needed.

A Nikon D3X will weight at least ~3 pounds and probably more depending on setup. A mount to carry it could be as light as ~3 pounds for a total payload of 6 pounds. That wouldn't be very heavy for a Maxi and autorotations would not be that difficult. Double the payload and the difficulty gets much greater.

Also remember that doing an auto in a open, flat, mowed field when you are expecting it is easier then at, say, a construction site you've never been to before.
06-28-2009 09:11 PM
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chuck nowell
Senior Heliman
Location: beaumont texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		i had to auto our gsr260 with th camera and equipment (12-15 lbs)it came down just like on of my 90's.it scared the hell out of me but it came in smooth as can be.after that on that i had to do,it was fun to do autos with it,it just floats down.you need to make sure that you have enough negative pitch in the set-up.



chuck

gsr260
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raptor50
07-02-2009 04:54 AM
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Flightlutions
Senior Heliman
Location: NYC

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
Conventional wisdom. From 5 to 15 feet is really not an autorotation but a power off landing. Every helicopter has an envelope to bring down safely without power and each of them are slightly different.

"Conventional wisdom" or Misconception?

An Auto is an Auto. An Auto from a 5 to 15 foot hover is called a Hovering Autorotation. We practiced it all the time in flight school.

http://flightlutions.com
07-02-2009 03:38 PM
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UHC - PORTUGAL
Senior Heliman
Location: LISBOA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Coincidence,....maybe because these topic is up.... but today i have done my first autorotation fully loaded with camera gear 3 kg underslung.

The autorotation was a success, it was only a hard land. I was fimlming acroos a river near a beach here in Portugal.

I was flying at about 30 meters and pushing hard my engine in fast forward flight, sudendly engine stop without warning,.....

I was realy impressed with the auto, the heli start imediatly a gentle and smoth descend, i have not used any negative pitch, have only mantained almost the same pitch and at about 2 to 3 meter have putted full colective.

So smooth, and easy,......... I always tought that a auto fully loaded will be a rock falling, but no it was not. It is true that the heli is very well positioned, with light head wind perfectly leved and also the was plently of room to land,...

The bad thing is that i don´t know what was the cause. All tubes are well conected, no leaks, the engine have started well again after the auto, and have performed well when hovering again, with idle and response. Full of fuel, whith a new plug. Can´t understand what was the problem. The problem is that i lost confidence now!

The good thing is that camera was recording, and i will put the video for you guys see a beautifull autorotation. It counts also experience wich is always good.

Millenium III helicopter with o.s 91 engine running 710 v blades, and 3 kg payload.

Jose Manuel Marques - WWW.UHC.PT
07-02-2009 11:43 PM
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tabbytabb
Elite Veteran
Location: seattle

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Jose,

Sounds like it is time to convert it to electric and not have to deal with such problems


Tabb
07-03-2009 02:54 AM
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Seablade
Key Veteran
Location: floating around

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Jose, glad to hear it auto'd well for you.

"Vini, Vidi, Velcro"
07-03-2009 07:41 AM
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UHC - PORTUGAL
Senior Heliman
Location: LISBOA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Tabb if i had with electrics half the experience i have with glow, i already have tried them,...

I almost bought the same set up as you from Garnick, but scares me the fact that i never even flown a electric helicoper, i don´t know nothing about them.

I´m thinking to start with the new CF 23 that Victor will release soon. It is based on trex 600, so i belive cheaper and more simple than minicopter based helis.

Seablade thank you, if i crashed the heli it will cause serious losts, with confirmed jobs already on the schedule,...

Regards,

Jose Manuel Marques - WWW.UHC.PT
07-03-2009 11:46 AM
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Seablade
Key Veteran
Location: floating around

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		off topic I know, but some good info to get started on electrics
is here:
http://www.southernsoaringclub.org.za/

article #5 by Brian Mulder gives the things to look for in getting a motor.


The answer to the topic's question is YES! You have to practice autos like anything else!
The variables come into play as trackhead has asked the questions of you. Find what you need to satisfy the answers and you should be able to do it.

"Vini, Vidi, Velcro"
07-03-2009 04:23 PM
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Aerial Photography and Video > Autorotation with an undercarriage camera mount
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