RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - Confused (again)

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Confused (again)

pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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predator wandering tail

I haven't had much chance to fly him of late..and after the 'hanging loops' I've been pretty cautious. I did have a bit of a wandering tail a while back but tracked that down to a loose ball on the tail servo.. which sorted things. But the wandering tail is back..but in an odd way:

611/9256 I've tried adjusting the gain between 36 and 38% with no doffernce. If I go higher then the tauil servo gets hot...so is this a sign of the servo dying?

Oddly the symptoms are that in a hover it wanders a few degrees either way..enough to make flying hard concentration No relationship with engine sounds and no fourstroking although the plug is a tad rich (as I read it) but temps around 160 deg F (highest around that second fin) so loth to lean further..

The wandering goes in a circuit as it weathervanes. More oddly if I hover and punch a climb-up then it kicks a few degrees right and stays solid all the way up.

I've tried adjusting headspeed on the governor and verified it with a skytach on te ground when the gov has kicked it. I've tried headspeed from 1600 to 1750 in the hover.. no difference.

Puch a climb-up and the engine goes to a throaty deep growl and this thing goes up pretty d@mn fast for a stock 231.

Any ideas? Oh and there's no sinificant vibration .. just a very low frequency movement of the vertical fin that's probably just part of a 2-stroke vibe...

pgk

06-08-2009 06:39 PM

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carpman
Senior Heliman
Location: Spain

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My Spectra was doing something similar but at intervals rather than consistently...

Raja solved it with the following reply:

Quote
#1 check the servo wire and make sure its not nicked open from the sharp frames. #2 oil the linkage to make sure its free. #3 gain should be at 37% or can be somewhat more, any less and it could drift #4 fly without the canopy to make sure its not rubbing on the gyro which is very close to it with the higher zeal tape. #5 if all else fails try a new rudder servo.

I checked point 1, did point 2 and 3 and it disappeared...

KEVIN
Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 | MA Spectra G

06-08-2009 08:37 PM

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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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...been through 1-3 and the gyro location isn't canopy affected

...am worrying about edit - 5 but don't see that it would hold during power climbs if the servo... unless soemthing like play within the servo itself? ..admit I haven't checked it for slop when heli powered up (will do immediately)...no slop feelable when powered off..

..rather than buy a new 9256 or BL251 - anyone see a reason why I can't test fit a DS620 with the 611???.. since I happen to have a spare new one..If that worked then a bl251 could be my answer?

pgk

06-08-2009 08:47 PM

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carpman
Senior Heliman
Location: Spain

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You could try it I guess but what would the setting be in the GY611 or would it need changing in the hidden menu?

Only reports I read of Align servos in gassers they failed early...

Is it easy to whip a S9256 out of another heli or a S9254?

KEVIN
Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 | MA Spectra G

06-08-2009 08:50 PM

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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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...9256 out of another one would be a pain.. but good point on a 9254..got one on 600e boom mounted and its very low hours..setting change needed?

pgk

06-08-2009 10:31 PM

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TaleGunner
Elite Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

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so far with my limited gasser experiance my tail wag or as I call it weird sway after it has been working fine has been servo failure all 3 times

do as Raja says he is usualy right

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!

06-08-2009 10:50 PM

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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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Quote
weird sway after it has been working fine has been servo failure all 3 times

... the curiosity that it holds in a climbout. Did yours?

pgk

06-08-2009 11:38 PM

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TaleGunner
Elite Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

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yep holds fine in a climb, just has a weird sway/wag in hover and each time I replaced the tail servo and it was fine. for a while I'm on servo #4 now I do have hope that I have solved the vibration problem believed to be causing the failures.

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!

06-09-2009 12:10 AM

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pgkevet
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Location: surrey UK

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...sorry you had the problems.. but does sound promising as my solution

... servo about a year old and has hit the deck three times.

It's boom mounted on my preddie and on rubbers. Just a shame they're so expensive...

pgk

06-09-2009 12:16 AM

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TaleGunner
Elite Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

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give it a try if you have tried every thing else. I had a vibration problem and tail servos seem particularly sensitive to that so I hope it solves your problem. and besides its on Rajas list of causes

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!

06-09-2009 12:49 AM

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carpman
Senior Heliman
Location: Spain

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Try the 9254 first unless you have deep pockets and can keep investing in new tail servos

The 9254 has a different pulse width than the 9256 and needs settings changing in the hidden menu. I have one on the 600 but the guy that owned it previously set it up and warned me that if I went back to a 9256 it would need changing again. I am sure a "how to do it" will be on here somewhere...

KEVIN
Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 | MA Spectra G

06-09-2009 07:23 AM

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sasa
Heliman
Location: UAE

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try to solve vibration problem first so the rest will be easy

SASA

06-09-2009 07:39 AM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Hi pgk

The 9256 is narrow band so if you use the 9254 you must change the narrow pulse to wide pulse in the hidden menu first, to get in follow these instructions.
Press Func+ & Func- simultaneously and then turn the power on, the gyro will display BAD but ignore it and then press Data+ & Data- simultaneously and you are in scroll through the menu till you come to pulse width and change it to wide and your ready to go.

I only like to fly gassed up

06-09-2009 08:40 AM

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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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Quote
try to solve vibration problem first so the rest will be easy

There's hardly any vibration currently.. obviously there was last year during running in.. and assorted meetigns with this planbet won;t have helped.

611 hidden menu

..thanks for that guy's. Pocket and time will decide whether I borrow a servo from another heli or buy a new one..

One day i hope to have all my heli's airworthy at the same time.. was down to only one left to fix until this last weekend

... 600N will be up and running tonight ..was minor but poor ol' 450 suffered at the hands of my early inverted hover attempts.. and if I hadn't had a huge box of spares already would have been cheaper to bin than fix (electronics, head block and tail case were OK.. rest is junk)

pgk

06-09-2009 10:50 AM

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carpman
Senior Heliman
Location: Spain

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Thanks to you Align are making record profits!

I must admit I have my gasser down to very little vibration, in fact once it is off the ground nothing appears to be shaking about and it's solid in the air, just a minor tail kick of a few cm's, but it jumps straight back. Power as well I find pretty good, but my motors are now off to Hanson to be 260 3D Max'd !!!!

KEVIN
Trex 600NSP | Trex 700 | MA Spectra G

06-09-2009 02:45 PM

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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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Predator is pretty vibration free too..

As to Align's profits from me... yeah, well you either pussy fly or have a go... I spent lots of time on the sim before trying anything new..it's not just rash. But partly age related slowing of reflexes and being too keen.

I flew 8 lipos of inverted goes over a couple of days before stacking 450 in.. including hovering inverted for over a minute at a time.. then lost it. As for 600N... I dumbthumbed that..

Someone has to help the global economy!

pgk

06-09-2009 09:02 PM

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imnxtc
Veteran
Location: Dawson

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Sounds like you may be a tad rich on the low end needle (maybe the high end needle also).

Even if your gyro is properly mounted with the two layers of tape and the metal plate between them, the extra vibes cause by the rich engine burbling will cause the tail to oscilate.

06-10-2009 01:17 AM

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WayneBrown
Heliman
Location: Augusta, GA

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Also check to make sure that the thrust bearings in the tail blade grips are free and smooth. Tight, dry or worn out thrust bearings will cause the same issue.

06-10-2009 03:09 AM

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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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..thanks for the ideas, guys... but I'd be suprised it it was either of those... there is no change in the type of 'wandering' at different RPM's in the hover but I'll revisit those points if a test with another tail servo doesn't solve it.

pgk

06-10-2009 07:00 AM

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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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Well I stuck a new tail servo on and went to the field to see if it was sorted... and the carb bulb wouldn't fill!!
Fuel lines are clear and I'm not enthusiastic about taking the carb apart..but nothing to lose..
Does leave me with wondering whether there was some weird fuel flow issue causing the wandering tail at hover throttle even though engine note sounded good...
If I sort carb or get a new one then I suppsoe I'll finally know...

(followed by my 600e taking off to 20 feet and having it's motor quit to another forced auto..difficult into waist high weeds in 30mph gusts...1 broken skid bow.)

pgk

06-19-2009 04:33 PM

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