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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Piston damage
 
 
Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Yes, if it gets real smooth, that means you could be to lean running in a hot environment but, I would check the temp on the head at that point to make sure...If its ok, then no problem...If not richen up.. If that screws you up , then you need more fan, or optimize what you have..
06-09-2009 04:58 PM
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shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I think that you need a new cylinder as well. At the very least the cylinder would need to be honed, but with these engines it is just better to get a new jug. I also feel that some folks on here don't run enough oil in their engines, I personally use at least 4 oz of oil per gallon. I have read that some have been using up to 6 oz with good results. I also agree with Billme on the warm up. My heli idles for at least a min before I ever try to fly, especially if it's the first flight of the day. That is something that I learned from my motocross days.....always let the engine get close to operating temp before opening up the throttle. Good luck with your machine, hopefully you will get long life out of the new parts.

Gas is Great
QWW Helis
06-09-2009 05:19 PM
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WillyS
Heliman
Location: HOBART, OK USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Very well said shuttlepilot.
06-10-2009 05:54 PM
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shawmcky
Key Veteran
Location: Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Beware honing

Im pretty sure the bore on the Zenoahs uses Nicasil plating so honing it is not a good idea.

Team- unbiased opinion,no experts here just trying to help thats all.K.I.S.S principle upheld here
06-10-2009 07:28 PM
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darko
Senior Heliman
Location: Bosnia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I replaced the piston and the ring and the engine works like never before, There is absolutely no shaking like before when I start it , and it looks like I started nitro and not gasser !
I did not fly it and I just let it run on idle and occasionaly giving some throttle !

I would like to know if I can fly it or it needs to spend some time on the ground idling ?

I found out that the reason for wasting it was the lean run , somehow my high needle was set to one half ( I dont know how I made that mistake >

Thanks !
06-25-2009 11:04 PM
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TaleGunner
Elite Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Did you replace the cylinder as well?

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
06-26-2009 12:07 AM
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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 

I would like to know if I can fly it or it needs to spend some time on the ground idling ?

Hi darko
Everybody has there own preferences when it comes to run in but I like to do about for short flights per tank with gentle flying and the occasional climb and a must is let it cool down between every flight.
Good Luck


PS keep your eye on the plug like it’s going out of fashion, the colour will tell you everything

I only like to fly gassed up
06-26-2009 12:16 AM
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sasa
Heliman
Location: UAE

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi Darko

for right break in spend one tank on idle it will take 1 hour depend on tank size and your carb setting after that run your engine at operating RPM (1700rpm ) and give collective pitch 3deg this will let your heli not going up do this for one tank 45 minute then you can hover for one tank then spend 2 gallon on sport flying that is it so you can go to hard 3D

thanks


SASA
06-26-2009 04:45 PM
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darko
Senior Heliman
Location: Bosnia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thank you guys for your replies !
No , I did not replace the cylinder !
I presume that I should use mineral oil for break in !

Fixit , the last time when I f...ed up my engine the plug reading was perfect and my high needle was only a half circle open.
I had to lower the needles as the heli did not want to run even with 1 circle ( it looked like the way too rich , and I could not get the speed of the rotors even for hoover ) and the factory setting is 1 1/2 for high needle. I have no clu how and why ! Maybe the reason could be - my engine was run in on the stand and not on the heli (6-7 litres ).

Now the engine works so smoothly with the factory settings ( 1 1/2 high and 1 1/8 low ).
06-26-2009 06:09 PM
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C.A.P.
Senior Heliman
Location: custer park IL.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Use some very good outboard motor, these oils are make for high output motors, not low hp weedwackers. your engine will stay cleaner and run better, use 5oz to break in at min, and do not run over rich, and do not use any oil with additve or gas stabilizers, at high temp the additve will burn and leave a burnt film, this is not good, And even in hot weather a long warm up is needed, the cylinder will alway be cooler the the outside temp, unless in direct sun light for a while, The ring will always expand faster then the cylinder in any temp, and this will cause plating failure, (scratches) Wally
06-26-2009 06:37 PM
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revman
Senior Heliman
Location: 4063 Upper Austria

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		NEVER USE OUTBOARD STROKE OIL.
These engines generally have no thermostat and run very cool hence the oil does not have to cope with such a thermal load.Many rely on a graphite compound to help lube but this is bad news at high temperatures.
Us oil intended for air cooled applications. Weed whacker stuff should even do!

"Don't force it lad! use a bigger hammer!
07-02-2009 08:55 AM
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crazzyjoe
Senior Heliman
Location: NewLowell, Ontario, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hey Guys,
I know most guys here use the Amsoil 100:1 Mix (blue oil) but when I called Amsoil and talked to there teck guy he strongly recomended that I use the Dominator oil (red one) at a 40 or 50:1 Mix. The reason he recomended the Dominator oil is because it is slightly thicker and it will withstand more heat. Your heli is at aprox 12,500rpm for 15min or more while flying and weed wackers are not. Dominator is also made for higher HP engines. This is what I was told about 3 years ago, I talked to someone else at Amsoil approx 2 monthes ago and he basicly told me the same thing use the Dominator.

I have 2 gassers and i have been using that oil for 2.5 years now and about 1 year in the other gasser and the cylinder and piston is still in excellent condition. The local boat guys here allmost all run the Dominator oil with great long term results.

I DO NOT want to start a war here about this oil better then that etc.. I'am just posting what the oil tecks told me at Amsoil.
So PLEASE DON"T freek out at me. You can call them up your self and ask just make sure you tell them the engine runs and stays at high rpm for awhile and some times are under great loads.

Thanks
Joe
07-02-2009 02:07 PM
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turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I also use Dominator at 40 to 1 ratio with great success.
My LHS guy said the same thing that the Dominator is thicker and can cope with the higher temps of aircooled motors under load like heli's.
I even broke the engine in on the stuff. Took awhile but she runs great!

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
07-02-2009 02:30 PM
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duke666
Veteran
Location: Hampshire, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Here you go:

http://www.performanceoilsltd.co.uk...racing_oil.html

Duke

OOOPPS............
07-02-2009 04:15 PM
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darko
Senior Heliman
Location: Bosnia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have problems with this engine again after I rebuilt it. I have the same problem which I had before which led me to stucking the piston.
The engine worked excellent with the factory needles setting but then again it changed the work routine and now I have to get the needles all the way back in order to achieve the engine to work properly.Now with the factory settings it is very rich and the plug is all wet and before that the plug was even slightly lean, and the engine worked good. I disassembled engine as Billme told me to check that mayby the ring was stuck to the piston because of running it rich but it wasnt. I just noticed some scratches on the piston at the same place as before as I did not replace the cylinder when I replaced the piston and the ring. But it is only slight scratches and the compression is good and the engine starts easily. When I assembled the engine the engine worked well again for short time and the rich run symptoms ocurred afterwards.
I do not know what the reason could stand behind that and it drives me crazy. It is so rich now and in order to get the engine run properly from0-30 percent throttle I had to close the high needle almost totally.Obviously I did not fly it like that it was just attempt to get rid of the rich run.
Now my engine idles well without 4 stroking only when I close the high needle to the end ( and it advances well to the middle of the stick , I did not dare chech further )
Could my carb be a problem ?
I would appreciate any advice !
Maybe you experienced sth similar in the past !
07-03-2009 11:11 PM
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JuanRodriguez
Elite Veteran
Location: Rochester, New York

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		No expert here......

But I would lean (no pun intended) toward carburator problems..........
07-04-2009 12:18 AM
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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi darko
I ran the 20cc in a Heli for 12 months as you know and the only problem I had with the engine was the insulator block and this gave me tuning problems from day one, unfortunately there isn’t a alloy upgrade for the 20cc so you have to make do with the stock item, mine sealed that bad I had to make two Teflon gaskets before it would run properly, might be worth looking in that area

I only like to fly gassed up
07-04-2009 12:59 AM
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TaleGunner
Elite Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Its my opinion that you should have replaced the cylinder when you replaced the piston. To me doing the way you did it made no sense.

after that is repaired properly replace the carb it should not run past 1/2 throttle with the high needle almost closed. there must be more wrong here than an air leak.

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
07-04-2009 01:49 AM
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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		How big a pickup line do you have inside your tank? Do you run a felt type clunk?
Also, show pictures if you can on how you have your mechanical throttle setup...

Let me look at low trim low throttle position, hover, and high...I need to be able to see both arms....Throttle atv's?
07-04-2009 07:04 AM
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darko
Senior Heliman
Location: Bosnia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have a normal size pick up line which is a bit shorter than the length of the tank. I use the standard nitro clunk which came with the nitro heli !
I will take the photos of the throttle arm setup later as I am at work now but basically I tried to follow that rule that at idle my arm is at top position !

I did not check for air leak as I understand that I should have the lean run in the case if I should have the airleak and I have extremelly rich run with the needles at factory positions. Please tell me if I am wrong , I do not want to take it off quite often as I only have one spare gasket for insulator block !
Yes I should have replaced the cylinder as well but I wanted to try with the old one as it did not look damaged.
Could that cause the the rich run of my engine? When I pull the cord the compression looks very good !
The one thing that confuses me is that engine ran good after rebuilt but I did not want to fly it I let it run at idle for a tank and a half and then it stopped. I checked the colour of the plug and it was very good . When I started it again it was 4 cycling and the leaning needles could not sort this out , it was always too rich and the plug was all wet !
After that at Billme suggestion I took the engine apart to check for stuck ring because of the rich run and I noticed that the ring was ok , there were no deposits on piston or a ring and the only thing I noticed were a few scratches which I sanded with the finest sand paper !
I) assembled it again with factory set needles and the engine ran smoothly again . After a half tank the engine started to run rich again !It looks like the real problem is the engine itself and I will have to replace both cylinder and the piston with ring again !
I will upload the photos of my throttle arm setup on Monday here !
07-04-2009 11:21 AM
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Piston damage
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