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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Piston damage
 
 
darko
Senior Heliman
Location: Bosnia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I was flying my T Rex 600 with 20 cc and it stopped working during the flight so it was time for my first auto , and it was successfull but I could not start the engine again . When I removed the exaust pipe I noticed that the piston suffered some damage ( some lines with scratches ). My question is , if my piston is damaged do I need to replace the cylinder as well or not necessarilly . So if the piston is damaged is the cylinder always damaged . When I landed the temp. of the engine was 150 celzius and the colour of the plug was perfect and it flew vey well ! The piston moves freelly without problems but it looks like it is a bit easier now to pull the rope than it used to be ( slightly worse compression ) .
I was sorry that it happened as this heli is so good to fly with !
06-06-2009 12:26 PM
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Peterr
Senior Heliman
Location: Queensland Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		yep . you can bet the cylinder is scratched too , as will be the ring ...
Remove the cylinder and look at the plating around the exhaust port .....

then check the gaskets/seals on the intake , from carb to intake port , bet one of them is leaking air .....

it doesn't take much.....

Peter ,,3X spectra G's ,, 4 X Stratus , Extreme,, 2 X E Razor, N Razor..
06-06-2009 01:19 PM
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sasa
Heliman
Location: UAE

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I had same problem with G260 and I just bring new piston ring and pressure came back and engine start and this with scratch piston and cylinder .this happen because am not follow break in step so what about you? I think before repair
06-06-2009 04:32 PM
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darko
Senior Heliman
Location: Bosnia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I ran 5 litres through this engine but not in the heli , it was on the test stand ! The temperatures measured were 150 Celzius which is not too high as this engine can withstand up to 200Celz ( apparently ). It was not lean as the colour of the plug was perfect - brownish. Maybe one of the reasons is that the engine should have been run in on the heli directly which I did not done ! I flew it just in normal mode FF flight ! I used BellRay 1:40
I noticed that there are a very few shops that sell the parts for this engine ! Do you know any ? I asked Hanson but I am still waiting for the reply as it is Saturday!
06-06-2009 09:53 PM
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smallplanes
Key Veteran
Location: Timmonsville,S.C. ,USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Bell ray is not very good oil i would run walmart oil before i ran bell ray. Run Lawnboy ashless oil for break in and run 6ozs per gal then go to Amsoil.

Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
2 Evo 50's
3 Trex 450's
Trex 700
Raptor50
12Z
06-07-2009 01:05 AM
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sasa
Heliman
Location: UAE

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		150c is too much who told it could run in 200c !!!!5L you are not completely break in 40:1 you need to be 1:30 at this time.

the engine need load to run at high rpm if no load like what you did ring stuck in cylinder .

I leave in hot climate 40c and my engine temp not more than 120c and when it reach at 150c ring stuck of course if you did right break in steps these temp will reduce to 90- 110c after 2 gallon and also power will be up of your engine .when you fix your engine let us help you to break in your engine .

SASA
06-07-2009 06:58 AM
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WillyS
Heliman
Location: HOBART, OK USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Sounds like a lean run darko.And don't let anyone bs you about BelRay oil,it's as good as the next oil.

My original sig was removed because I spoke the truth!!!!!!!!
06-07-2009 07:59 AM
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darko
Senior Heliman
Location: Bosnia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I took it apart and the piston is damaged and so the ring ! I do not see any significant damages on the cylinder ( I can see some traces on it but I cannot feel any roughness when I put my finger in it and rub it around ! I know the best option is to buy the new cylinder but would it be possible just to change the piston and ring ! I would like to save some money but I am scared that it could cost me more if I do not change it !
I cant upload it here today but here is the link :

http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/...nt=DSCN2573.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/...ic/DSCN2578.jpg
06-07-2009 02:12 PM
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pphil611
Senior Heliman
Location: South Dakota

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		darko

Your photo seems to indicate scoreing on the cylinder. Been there done that twice. I would change the cylinder also, they arent that expensive. Save yourself two teardowns.

Spectra-G, MAH, CSM
06-07-2009 03:42 PM
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sasa
Heliman
Location: UAE

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		no I had cylinder bad than that you need just change ring and start again break in steps even piston it will be ok don't care or you can by it but try to change only ring you will find ok no any other part will be be damage don't worry .

SASA
06-07-2009 04:49 PM
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4 stroke flyer
Senior Heliman
Location: Dowagiac,MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		You really need to bring your oil content up. We run 5oz to a gallon. You should check for possible air leak around carb mount. good luck.
06-07-2009 07:05 PM
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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		This happens when you don't do a good warm up before loading the engine or lugging the engine...Has nothing to do with the amount of oil...
06-08-2009 07:56 AM
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shawmcky
Key Veteran
Location: Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Good habit

A good point and a good habit to get into,most wouldnt drive a car or motorcycle hard from cold,why should our poor little Zenoahs be any different,bit of mechanical sympathy goes a long way and is easier on the pocket

Team- unbiased opinion,no experts here just trying to help thats all.K.I.S.S principle upheld here
06-08-2009 08:50 AM
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darko
Senior Heliman
Location: Bosnia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thank you all for your input !
I really appreciate the Billme opinion as he is considered to be an expert here !
Bell Ray is one of the most expensive oils here in Europe 40 dollars for 1 litre bottle and it should be good ! I cannot get oils which you use in the States !
I did not warm engine enough , one of the reasons behind is that I was scared that if I wait too long it is going to get too hot as this heli is a conversion with stock parts ( fan , clutch ) and the temp. gets higher than with the other factyory gassers or the conversions with predator fan.
The general importer of Zenoah for Europe - Tony - Clark told me that this engine can withstand 200 degrees Celzius without problems !He also advised me to run the engine in with the heli and not on the stand but it was too late as I already put 5 litres of fuel through it on the stand.

I decided just to replace the piston and the ring as cylinder is in pretty good shape ( I cannot feel any roughnes touching the inside with my nail ) .
Please advise me how to run it in properly now !
I think will use Castrol mineral oil for running in , do not advise me to use Lawnboy ashless or similar as I cannot get them here !
This heli is a really good flier and I would recommend it to anyone , I was not lucky that this happened to me !
06-08-2009 10:33 AM
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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi darko

You don’t even have to look at the second picture; the amount of damage on the piston tells me the barrel needs replacing, don’t think about saving money because you wont in the long run.

PS, just think what marks the piston, it can’t be the ring so what ells has been in contact with the piston skirt?

I only like to fly gassed up
06-08-2009 12:29 PM
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darko
Senior Heliman
Location: Bosnia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi Fixit ,
I understand what you are saying , I had the same thoughts but really there are not any real damages on the barrel , I can see where the piston touched the barrel but it is like the used cars paint , you can see that it is not new but you cannot feel anything when you touch it. It looks like the barrel is much stronger than the piston and the piston suffered .
Thank you for your advice anyway !
I will try this way as I already ordered it and if it does not work it will be only 20 EUROS more for another piston and ring.
The cylinder is pretty expensive at around 60 euros !
06-08-2009 12:55 PM
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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		BTW,
I"m not a expert....I'm a old fool that stuck with these beast
06-08-2009 04:53 PM
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Excalibur
Veteran
Location: Destination: Earth

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
I"m not a expert....I'm a old fool that stuck with these beast

Yeah, but you're an expert "old fool", and we all respect ya!

Keep up the good work Bill - you rock.

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
06-09-2009 05:46 AM
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Philicopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Saint Anne (Kankakee) ,IL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		With a run that was quite obviously very lean I would bet there is also pitting and depostis in the head itself. Piston, ring , and sleeve are definite replacements, I would take care to look at the head as well. All of that scoring has to go somewhere and usually gets deposited right in the combustion chamber.

Phil

You can race anything you have 2 of
Next-D Rave 3S mini-G
JS TZ 50 Frenzy V2 YS50 Mini-G
06-09-2009 05:53 AM
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sasa
Heliman
Location: UAE

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Billme

I leave in hot climate about 40c and I warm up engine only for 30 second and it was ok but I notice that after 5 minute of flying engine become smoother so is this mean any thing ? because I thing in cold area you need warm up engine for 1 minute or more because oprating tempure between 100c to 150 so for me i start from 40c to 100c need less than from 10c to 100c .

SASA
06-09-2009 07:33 AM
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