RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - balancing the head

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Main Discussion > balancing the head

datidun
Senior Heliman
Location: n ireland

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was wondering do you guys balance the head with the main blades on,or take them off ,my blades are well balanced but adding more tracking tape to them to balance the head would put the blades out of balance ,or does it not matter as long as the head with the blades is balanced

05-28-2009 10:30 PM

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duceduc
Key Veteran
Location: Saitama-Ken, Japan

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You will need to take out the head along with the main mast. I use the debro high point balancer.

Duc S
Do It! Do It!™
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05-28-2009 10:35 PM

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datidun
Senior Heliman
Location: n ireland

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thanx i have the head out ,what about the blades ,my balancer is simmilar the main shaft goes through

05-28-2009 10:38 PM

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Helifat
Senior Heliman
Location: Vista,Ca

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You could balance the rotor head without blades why not! but I think most of heli pilots don't botter. Most, including me get away just with a good set of factory balanced carbon blades.

Ex-700 3d pilot back to blade cx training!

05-28-2009 10:38 PM

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duceduc
Key Veteran
Location: Saitama-Ken, Japan

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Everything stays on the head except the swashplate. Put it on a high table so the blades will clear.

Duc S
Do It! Do It!™
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05-28-2009 10:39 PM

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datidun
Senior Heliman
Location: n ireland

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if its to heavy ,i will have to file down parts ,if its to light will have to add something not sure if thats a good idea

05-28-2009 10:40 PM

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datidun
Senior Heliman
Location: n ireland

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just thinking i dont think it will matter if the blades are out of balance ,the most important thing is the combination of the whole head and blades together are perfectly balanced ,correct me if im wrong ,thanx

05-28-2009 10:50 PM

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Helifat
Senior Heliman
Location: Vista,Ca

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Ex-700 3d pilot back to blade cx training!

05-28-2009 10:54 PM

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wws2010
Senior Heliman
Location: La Cresenta, California - United States

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first of all most parts are perfectly balanced, the blades are the largest difference. to balance everything you should take the main shaft/mast out and pull the blades out and then you should take two identical cups and place the flybar across the two, this will balance your whole head. I personally use a gram scale that good to .001 g and use that to balance my blades.

05-29-2009 01:34 AM

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datidun
Senior Heliman
Location: n ireland

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dont agree with that most heads i have checked are not balanced ,especially with a point balancer which is accurate ,thats why i thought if the head is out of balance ,balance the whole thing with the blades

05-29-2009 11:07 AM

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chris6414
Senior Heliman
Location: HMH-772 NAS JRB Willow Grove, Pa USA

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Balance them seperately. The spinning discs are really three(or more) seperate discs. The head(inner), at the area of the entire main blade arc(balance them), then at the CG of each blade(they should be matched). The blades and CG are what balances the rotor disc. The head balances the mechanics. If you balance the blades and CG them and balance the head. Once they are all together they should be balanced. If the assy does not balance, then something(the main shaft) could have a bend in it or you balanced something incorrectly.

Century Hawk, Sport, OS .32, Futaba 7C, G153BB gyro

05-29-2009 12:23 PM

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beeflyer2
Elite Veteran
Location: Woodstock, GA - USA

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Who actually does all that?

05-29-2009 06:29 PM

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outhouse
Veteran
Location: auburn ca

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Your waiting valuable flying time for no reason at all.

you dont file anything you dont balance the head!

YOU DO make sure your flybar and paddles are at center to the best of your ability,,,, that is how you balance your head.

05-29-2009 06:55 PM

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w.pasman
Elite Veteran
Location: Netherlands

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I balance the blades separate from the head. Head I just screw on. There is nothing adjustable to the head anyway except maybe I could shim a few parts... Maybe it can be done better but it seems to work fine so far and I prefer to spend time on the sim and on the field instead of on the workbench.

05-29-2009 09:04 PM

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GMPheli
Key Veteran
Location: W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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I do it like Chris6414 says. Really not that hard. 2 wheel collars on the flybar and throw the head (sans blades)on the highpoint. Lock down the wheel collars so the flybar balances. The blade grips generally don't need any attention. Good blades generally come thru balanced and c/ged but I check em anyway. Bolt em on and go fly!

05-29-2009 09:33 PM

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wws2010
Senior Heliman
Location: La Cresenta, California - United States

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Well I said usually, again I was saying an economical way of doing it. If you do want the perfect head I would look to getting all metal parts, from a reputable dealer and manufacturer and then getting a very precise scale such as mine and then use a file to perfectly balance each part. This will ensure a perfect head. I believe that with modern cnc machining that this would not even be noticeable and would just be a very poor use of time. You also have to think about the placement of the parts, they are so close to the center of rotation that it doesn't have as large of an effect as the blades do.

05-29-2009 09:34 PM

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Yug
rrMaster
Location: UK. Herts

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I balance blades separte from the head. There are rarely any issues with the head but the blade balance is very important. Although static balance is relatively straight forward for both chord and spanwise, the dynamic balance is allways hard to get bang on given slight variations in airfoil profile. Given this, the next crash is round the corner so WTF

Vegetable rights and Peace

05-30-2009 01:55 AM

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AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

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If the head is built right, there won't be any balance problem.

As for the blades . . . . do I want to talk about blade balance ?

05-30-2009 02:07 AM

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Technex
Key Veteran
Location: Berkshire, UK

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I personally don't see any reason at all to balance the blades with the head, dampeners might be different, the feathering shaft might be more to one side, anything... If blades are balanced they're balanced. COG and weight.

I just balance the tail blades, chinese tail weight mod, main blades, flybar (length) and paddles.

- Laurence
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Spektrum DX7
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05-30-2009 02:13 AM

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Yug
rrMaster
Location: UK. Herts

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Quote
do I want to talk about blade balance

static balance, NO but I'd be interested in your comments regarding dynamic balance given the complications of doing this on the mains presents some issues compared the simplicities in balancing the TBs.

Vegetable rights and Peace

05-30-2009 02:19 AM

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shawgl
Key Veteran
Location: Oceanside CA

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As someone had already mentioned,

I ballance the flybar with wheel collars, then install the blades and ballance them on the head. Install the mast and head assy. and fire it up. Make track adjustments and head for the sky. No need to dynamic ballance anything on these things. With lead and lag changes and all that good stuff working at your operating RPM it is not something you could really do accurately. Static is more than enough which is VERY evident when you spin up your heli. It's either smooth or it's not.

In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.

05-30-2009 06:35 AM

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AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

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With FRP blades, I never bother with chord balance. I used to check span balance but only one blade against it's mate, see-saw style.

Dynamic balance is only useful in objects that not planar. Like a bicycle when compared to a car wheel. On a car wheel, dynamic balance wants weights on both the inside and outside of the wheel to fix wobble issues. In a bicycle wheel, because it's so thin, such issues don't exist (like a rotor disk).

05-30-2009 04:57 PM

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shawgl
Key Veteran
Location: Oceanside CA

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We dynamic ballance our full size heads using accelerometers and use the fast track camera for track at different air speeds. We make spanwise, chord wise, and trunion weight adjustments accordingly. No need for all that on R/C, just not enough mass in the head to cause problems.

In God we trust, everyone else we monitor.

05-31-2009 03:42 AM

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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

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Recently I had a vibration so I went through all this head balance checking. I used a hi point, a runout guage, and a precision scale.

It wasn't worth my time.

Stock, all the Evo's paired parts weighed within .1 GRAMS! I weighed the grips ready to be installed on the spindle...

.1 GRAMS.

The tailblades and holders...

.1 GRAMS.

Incredible. Curtis Youngblood truly says it in his Q&A book. To paraphrase, today's tolerances are so close you can just balance the fan and blades and fly. To give you an idea, a washer weighs much more than .1 grams.

Quote
dont agree with that most heads i have checked are not balanced ,especially with a point balancer which is accurate

By the way, do a SEARCH on the hi points and their precision. You may be doing more harm than good balancing things on a high point unless you are aware of its limitations.

RUNOUT is what is important, not balance. Check fan runout and head runout if you can.

-Aaron

05-31-2009 05:30 AM

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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

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Quote
Everything stays on the head except the swashplate. Put it on a high table so the blades will clear.

I wouldn't do this. Take the blades off and balance just the head. Then balance the blades using a KOLL or just balance each blade on a razor blade.

With your plan, if either blade is even SLIGHTLY lagging or leading compared to the other it will throw off your accuracy here by a great deal and have you chasing a ghost imbalance.

You're likely to do more harm than good "fixing" an imbalance that isn't there.

-Aaron

05-31-2009 05:35 AM

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outhouse
Veteran
Location: auburn ca

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quit waisting time, do not balance the head period it uneeded.

balance the blades and fly

06-01-2009 03:23 AM

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Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

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Agreed.

-Aaron

06-01-2009 03:27 AM

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