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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > How to make a lighter N9 with great power
 
 
baddynergy
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Quote 
when you say that the Trex boom is "almost" the same size, will the N9 torque tube fit in the Trex 700 boom?

I am not saying that at all, although it might. I havent checked. What I said was, the outside diameter is close enough to the Trex that I can use the quick uk boom clamp.

Checked, trex boom is considerably shorter. Same Id and OD though just a couple hundredths difference.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
05-13-2009 01:45 AM
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cation3
Senior Heliman
Location: Smyrna, GA - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
will the N9 torque tube fit in the Trex 700 boom?

Quote 
Checked, trex boom is considerably shorter.

Then again the 700 does not require the tail transmission, but then my question is: why? If you're talking just the tube itself, I don't see why unless you prefer the bearings or something. This thread is about saving weight. I don't think you could save that much switching to another TT.

Speaking of saving weight: you should see the N9 Matt is flying for XFC. I think he did everything to it (short of back to FBL) you could to save weight. No cross braces, no metal SE bling, no HyperLevers, etc.... I think he said he cut a pound off it.

-Drew
05-13-2009 02:32 AM
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missle
Senior Heliman
Location: West Chester, Oh

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Just looking for different options for cutting oz's of which another CF boom vs a solid aluminum boom could yeild a slight savings. Now I've got to weight the fan assembly to see if I can use a small motor (like a dvd outrunner) to keep the head about 20 deg cooler with a slight weight savings.

WATCH OUT!!!!!!!!
05-13-2009 03:48 AM
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cation3
Senior Heliman
Location: Smyrna, GA - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Oh, you're talking about the boom itself. I just put the two booms next to each other - well, at least a bannana'd N9 boom and the aluminum extra 700 boom. No true measurement and the crashed N9 boom would make the difference more significant, but the N9 boom is about three inches longer than the 700's. Baddraptor is correct, they are close in diameter and I like that QUK boom clamp too.

-Drew
05-13-2009 04:38 PM
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twinpeak
Senior Heliman
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		get rid of the flybar and everything around it
OR EVEN BETER: go electric! slightly higer weight double the peak-power...............
05-13-2009 11:27 PM
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Ironhide
Senior Heliman
Location: dexter mi us

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Missle

I don't understand why you would get rid of the stock fan and shroud and replace it with a electric fan . The engine is already spinning . So you would have to run a larger battery right ?

IMHO I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze

There are always trade offs

I second the ditching of the flybar
05-13-2009 11:51 PM
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missle
Senior Heliman
Location: West Chester, Oh

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		My desire would be to use the rec pack to run the small inrunner motor with a goal of cooling the head better and possibly allow me to run her a lil more lean. You got to admit that fan system is not the most effecient design possible.
As far as pack size, my goal would be to stay in the 2S 2500-3000 mah size (which would definately be lighter than liIo 2500 mah pack).

WATCH OUT!!!!!!!!
05-14-2009 01:58 AM
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baddynergy
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
possibly allow me to run her a lil more lean.

Not if your running a YS. The YS likes to be run a little fat. If a 10lb Synergy with YSSR and 16th pinion at 1950 on the head doesnt float your boat, maybe you should look at electric power. Cause my set-up like that is a rocket.


Quote 
As far as pack size, my goal would be to stay in the 2S 2500-3000 mah size (which would definately be lighter than liIo 2500 mah pack).

I am running a 4000mah lipo that is only 160grams. Lighter than most other batteries out there from 2000mah on up.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
05-14-2009 02:36 AM
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airboss
Elite Veteran
Location: OC ,california

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		missle

did you do a weight check to see if a E fan would save ? I did use a fan on my logo afew years ago with good results and it weighed 30g

OCRM....flyBlackstarr.org.
05-14-2009 04:38 AM
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Rymps
Veteran
Location: Indianapolis

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
As far as pack size, my goal would be to stay in the 2S 2500-3000 mah size

I run a 2200 and it is light and i get 5 flights out of mine.

With the stock fan gone and the electric fan installed and the Big Heavy battery you are just trading one evil for another. The stock fan is proven. If you want a lighter heli you will need to start cutting the weight of the Aluminum parts.

Teh funny thing is on Tuesday i had a vertial drag race with a Trex 700. He had YS SR and an outrage pipe. My N9 has a HZ with a SB20. I barely won, but i won. everyone at the feild was impressed. The start was perfect for both helis. Now i have been haveing my N9s on a diet, but there is more to go.
05-14-2009 02:52 PM
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baddynergy
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
If you want a lighter heli you will need to start cutting the weight of the Aluminum parts.

Dont be so quick to say the aluminum pieces are heavy. Quite a few are lighter than stock plastic. I know far a fact some are lighter.

FBH mainshaft blocks even with double bearing is lighter than stock

SE bellcranks arms are lighter than stock plastic

Kasama aluminum clutch block is same weight as stock but way better fit

When I did my FBH frame build I had all these parts and weighed each carefully to make sure the lightest parts weere going in. I did not want to add bling just to add it, it had to be lighter or it wasnt used.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
05-14-2009 03:54 PM
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Ironhide
Senior Heliman
Location: dexter mi us

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Baddraptor

Did you by chance write any of that down ? I'm curious to see the numbers .
05-14-2009 04:01 PM
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baddynergy
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		No I dont. I just threw the stuff on the gram scale. The heavier stuff was thrown in a box.. I knew I should have written it down but I got so excited with the FBH frames I just couldnt stop the build to write it down.

The good news is, I will be turning my third N9 into another FBH frame so I will write all the numbers down then.

When I say lighter, I am not talking by a big number maybe a few grams at most. If IIRC the biggest difference was around 10g which was the lower bearing block.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
05-14-2009 04:10 PM
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missle
Senior Heliman
Location: West Chester, Oh

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Rymps, I thought I mentioned before that I'm planning to use a "lighter" rec pack than my current LiIo and the electric motor and prop will be lighter than the stock fan and housing. The other plus is one less thing to dial indicate

I don't want a setup that gives me 5 or more flights out of it without having to recharge. Instead, I'd rather use a slightly higher C rating with a lower capacity and recharge every 3-4 flights. I've got my heli's setup so that I can just plug them without having to remove anything from the heli and charge-up is done in 30-40 minutes.

I also plan to weight and compare the Hyper parts to the stock and post here. I only want those parts that give better performance and not for the bling factor.

WATCH OUT!!!!!!!!
05-14-2009 05:15 PM
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missle
Senior Heliman
Location: West Chester, Oh

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Oh yea, forgot to mention for those who may not believe a ECF won't work on a nitro application, see here: http://www.compassmodel.com/odin.php

My mentor (the one who convinced me to get into the Synergy's) was so impressed with this heli that he ordered one after flying it this past weekend!

WATCH OUT!!!!!!!!
05-14-2009 05:35 PM
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baddynergy
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
The other plus is one less thing to dial indicate

You still have to dial in the clutch and start shaft. The fan just bolts to the hub and the hub still needs to be dialed in. You wont really be saving any steps there.
I would be curious as to how much your fan and esc weigh.

I can tell you right now some hyper parts are heavier than stock but WELL worth using.

Hyperdrive is heavier than stock TT set-up. I wouldnt run without it.Maybe 5g differnce
Hyperarms are a couple grams heavier, I am FBL so doesnt matter to me.

Quote 
don't want a setup that gives me 5 or more flights out of it without having to recharge. Instead, I'd rather use a slightly higher C rating with a lower capacity and recharge every 3-4 flights

I would be curious to know what battery you plan on using and its weight. Most 2000mah lipos weigh in the neighbor hood of 200g, My TP 4000mah ultralight weighs 160gand I can get 7 flights running unregulated 8717s.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
05-14-2009 07:08 PM
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Entityofme1
Senior Heliman
Location: Birmingham, AL.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Is lighter necessarily all that much better? I think someone mentioned "just think race car". Well a race car contends with a different enviroment with more friction where it's not floating through the air with wind gusts. I fly a Trex 600N as well and sometimes it gets kind of boring since it's so floaty due to its light weight. It doesn't fly as fast and it just hangs there for alot longer when in a vertical attitude going into a nose slide/tail slide. If you want to start poking fingers at weight lets look at the turbulence D3 and what Dominick can do with it. I picked one of those up and was thinking to myself the bird had to weigh around 13+ pounds. I mean if you only like to fly on really calm days then I guess the light weight will shine all the more but personally I like flying on the windier days as well where more weight and mass seems to help. I get the feeling we are on the brink of a make your N9 into a different helicopter trend by making it lighter than the light helicopters.
05-14-2009 07:20 PM
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airboss
Elite Veteran
Location: OC ,california

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Entity

just think Aircraft , and for that one reason , yes lighter is better.
My favorite N9 is the QX frame version weighing a woping 10.2 lbs wet , it still handles like its on rails and can 3D with the best rex's.

OCRM....flyBlackstarr.org.
05-14-2009 08:57 PM
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Rymps
Veteran
Location: Indianapolis

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		missle I was not trying to affend you. I am interested in your fan set up and would love to know how well it works.

Lighter is not always better, neither is to heavey. I beleive you need to find a balance in what you want. That is why i am taking a little off at a time. I can alway add weight.

Quote 
Dont be so quick to say the aluminum pieces are heavy. Quite a few are lighter than stock plastic. I know far a fact some are lighter.
I am not saying aluminum parts are heavier than plastic. I am saying that the N9 has some over weight aluminum parts that need a trim. The front frame support is one that can have the "fat" trimed. The other is the Crown gear hub. I am hoping to cut these parts this week and post some picks with weights.

I like the FBH frames and i think Carl and Tyler did a great job. I am just not looking to replace my frames until i need to.
05-15-2009 01:14 AM
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Ironhide
Senior Heliman
Location: dexter mi us

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Missle
I'm just saying I tried a electric fan on a nitro rock crawler I was trying to build but could never keep the temp down . I did not have a fan shroud tho . Would have helped alot .

05-15-2009 01:28 AM
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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > How to make a lighter N9 with great power
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