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Robbe Cuatro - Millennium - Nova - Dyna-X > Futura SE pitch curves
 
 
MadMickey
Heliman
Location: North of Scotland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi
I am trying to get a second hand rebuilt se back in the air. I am setting up the pitch curves with 0 degress pitch at centre however when I look at the amount of pitch I am getting. It is just over 10 degress on the top and bottom.
1) Is this normal and how much pitch should I be running at the top end of the Auto curve. Do I need more that 10 degrees?
My gut say 11 or 12 but I am in uncharted territory for me.

M
04-24-2009 10:03 PM
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erichevy
Veteran
Location: Zevenhoven The Netherlands

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi M,

My Futura gasser SE has also 10degrees pos/neg.
For your top end pitch curve for autorotation use always the most you can get.
When your auto gets wrong, max pitch is your last help.
If you're not into flying inverted you can always get by with less neg. pitch, to end up with a few more degrees max. pitch

Eric.
04-25-2009 10:06 PM
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jonbagadoughnut
Heliman
Location: Camp Pendleton, CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		+- 10 gives the best performance IMHO. Use that, you will like it.
jon®
04-26-2009 04:25 AM
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dela
Heliman
Location: Stillwater Oklahoma

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Are you saying that +-10 is your entire available pitch range, when the swash bottoms out and tops out.

I'm certain I get more than that, but I'll have to check this evening.

RDD
04-27-2009 03:16 PM
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jonbagadoughnut
Heliman
Location: Camp Pendleton, CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The swash never bottoms out either direction. With the collective at center stick the swash should be 20mm from the frames, this should be 0 degrees. Then you should get +-10 from there.
jon®
04-28-2009 04:00 AM
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jonbagadoughnut
Heliman
Location: Camp Pendleton, CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		could you get more than +-10, sure, but this is a good starting point.
jon®
04-28-2009 04:01 AM
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MadMickey
Heliman
Location: North of Scotland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi
Okay I have had the time to look at my pitch range again.
Running at 140ATV I am getting 9.5 degrees at the top and negative 13 degrees at the bottom ( measured with a JR pitch gauge).
I have set it up with zero degrees at centre stick with the swash plate resting on the U shaped channel piece you get with the kit for setting up. All horns are at Zero and the geometry looks pretty good.

I have rechecked everything and cannot figure out why this is happening. I would have expected the pitch to be close to symetrical but it is way off. Indicating that some kind of differentail is creeping in but I do not know where. I have checked the two rocking servos( aileron and elevator) for 90 degrees and they seem fine but I am unsure if I am measuring it against the correct datum. The obvious datum is the mast. But I would need to strip everything off it which I may do yet if you guys cant help me.

What I have noticed is that at full positive pitch the swash plate is hard up against the mixer base which in turn is hard up against the bottom of the rotor head. I am running the stock fixed links.
So any suggestions? or even better can somebody give me the length of all the push rods.

Mike
Ps if I have made a cardinal error feel free to call me a NUMPTY.
04-29-2009 06:24 PM
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dela
Heliman
Location: Stillwater Oklahoma

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Mike,

I've never heard of a NUMPTY. Is that a "standard internet abbreviation" I need to know about.

Can we call you a NUMPTY just for fun?

Ron
04-29-2009 07:14 PM
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MadMickey
Heliman
Location: North of Scotland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Numpty definition

Hi
A Numpty is a Scottish term for someone who is
1) if they were twice as smart they would fall well short of being a half wit
2) Not the sharpest tool in the shed.

etc etc
You get the idea

Mike
04-29-2009 07:31 PM
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Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		This is for the Millenium, the same will apply to the Futura

As I recall +/- 10 is about the best you can get without biding at the extremes of aileron and elevator. The long control rods will be different but the same theory applies. The main thing this diagram shows is that you want to set the rods to 90 degrees at the servo.



keepin' it real
04-29-2009 08:24 PM
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gftazz
Veteran
Location: upstate N.Y. in the Adirondacks

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		There was in the Curtis Futura SE kits a set of different links that you had to put together with a small threaded rod that were smaller in overall length than the FIXED links in the kit that go from the LARGE round ball on the flybar carrier up to the pitch mixing arm on the mainblade grips. With these smaller rods the mixing arms on the bladegrips would be level at 0% pitch and so would the mixer arms on the slider above the swashplate.

The smaller one that you put together will allow even pitch on both high and low with 0 in the middle. This was started with the Curtis SE version so you could do linear pitch for 3D flying.

Oh No Someone Please Stop Me Before I Go Broke With This Heli Thing!!
04-30-2009 01:34 AM
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MadMickey
Heliman
Location: North of Scotland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi
Just looked up my manual and the only link shown is the fixed length one. I am wondering if this was a later addition after my kit was produced. Does anyone have a part number?

Mike
04-30-2009 02:08 AM
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MadMickey
Heliman
Location: North of Scotland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi
I found an online manual for the Futura and G is right. They have revised the head to include the made up link in place of my fixed links. I will order the parts tomorrow. Hopefully that has cracked the problem.

Mike
04-30-2009 02:24 AM
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Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Look at the Millenium manual for the part number.

keepin' it real
04-30-2009 03:58 AM
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gftazz
Veteran
Location: upstate N.Y. in the Adirondacks

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Let us know MADMICKEY but I think that is what you were looking for to get the linear pitch you want.

Oh No Someone Please Stop Me Before I Go Broke With This Heli Thing!!
04-30-2009 10:26 PM
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MadMickey
Heliman
Location: North of Scotland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi
I checked out my machine and it does have the two piece link between the Flybar and the see saw. But i did notice that the link between the mixing base and the Swash plate has also changed so i am wondering if that is also part of the problem.
I will keep you posted with my progress.

M
04-30-2009 11:41 PM
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MadMickey
Heliman
Location: North of Scotland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi
Okay latest update is that i am now getting plus 11 top and neg 13 bottom max available pitch. When I looked at the heli again I noticed I had the two piece link described above. when I tried it I still wasnt getting the range you guys were getting,
On my travels round the internet I came across and excellent site that had the Futura SE and the Futura Super sport instruction in PDF format. The SE instructions were not much use but the Super Sport gave me exact rod lengths for the Servo to Bellcrank links. My rods were out by a mm here and there.
I set up with these lengths and hey presto I am getting plus 11 degrees at the top end. So my conclusion is that there must have been several very small error in the geometry adding up to my problem.

Thanks for everyones input.

Mike
Ps one final question, Can someone tell me what pitch the beasty hovers at. I have her set at Plus 4 degrees.
05-01-2009 08:07 PM
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gftazz
Veteran
Location: upstate N.Y. in the Adirondacks

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yes there was a newer item when Curtis got involved. It is metal and has a small cap screw to hold it to the mixing arm and took a screw on ball link to go on the swashplate instead of the traditional A arm.

Oh No Someone Please Stop Me Before I Go Broke With This Heli Thing!!
05-02-2009 02:15 AM
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Robbe Cuatro - Millennium - Nova - Dyna-X > Futura SE pitch curves
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