RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - Align Gas Conversion fever

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Align Gas Conversion fever

bwarkent
Senior Heliman
Location: Houston Tx

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"still needs some work as you will see from the Video it was bogging on simply 3D"

5.75 and 1830 headspeed is way too low for the type of flying you are trying to do. Try upping your headspeed above 2K or change the gear ratio.

11-07-2009 08:39 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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5.75 and 1830 headspeed is way too low for the type of flying you are trying to do. Try upping your headspeed above 2K or change the gear ratio.

The motor was running at 11500 in the video and we upped it too 11750 after that flight so the head speeds would have been 2000 and 2100.
If the weathers fine tomorrow we will be making more adjustments too both head speed and mixture to see if we can better today’s performance, I might also try the century V3 muffler and see if that helps.

I only like to fly gassed up

11-07-2009 09:54 PM

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AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

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I think your curves are facocked. It came off the ground way before it got up to head speed. If you are going to run that high a head speed I would say reduce the collective throw. (Maybe +-8)

Ace
What could be more fun?

11-08-2009 01:28 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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It was running in governor mode and the increase in head speed was the fact that it hadn’t warmed up before he increased the pitch.
The pitch curve is linier
Because of the gearing I have to run those head speeds or change the pinion or fit a 26

I only like to fly gassed up

11-08-2009 05:25 PM

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AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

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It was running in governor mode and the increase in head speed was the fact that it hadn’t warmed up before he increased the pitch.

Nonsense... A governor knows nothing about warm up. It will force the throttle to go to set RPM regardless of the condition of the engine. Part of the problem of a governor (hobby) is it cannot detect load. So if it is not at the set point it will go full throttle until it reaches set point. Set-point RPM should occur way before you get to lift off especially on a EI engine. If it does not than the engine cannot support the headspeed that you programmed (torque wise) so you should change the gearing.

Rather than change the gearing using shorter blades might be the answer. However, you would help the situation by simply programing (limiting) less pitch at this high headspeed.

Ace
What could be more fun?

11-09-2009 12:10 AM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Nonsense... A governor knows nothing about warm up. It will force the throttle to go to set RPM regardless of the condition of the engine

So tell me Ace can the governor also warm the engine up at the same time, no mater what settings or electronics you have the engine won’t jump to full throttle when it’s cold, and notice I wasn’t rude either.

Pitch
We had already knocked the pitch down from +10 for the video

I only like to fly gassed up

11-09-2009 12:28 AM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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OK Ace so after watching today’s video as well as the one posted yesterday I can see were your coming from, I did alter the throttle curves yesterday before it flew and I didn’t reset the governor, I will address that and see how the Heli reacts. It’s either the gov coming in late or he clicked into idle up, I’m trying to work out why it did that because the gov is set to come in at ¼ throttle and the pitch is zero at mid stick

Today’s Video
http://www.youtube.com/user/K3Gamin...u/1/iR0R9SONDPQ

I only like to fly gassed up

11-09-2009 01:15 AM

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AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

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no mater what settings or electronics you have the engine won’t jump to full throttle when it’s cold

If the engine does not have enough HP capacity it will go full throttle and stay there. This would be a full bog. I don't know how sophisticated these governor controls are but typically a speed device like this would have PID, proportional, integral, and derivative. So it would start to back off from the full throttle condition slightly before it reached set point so it doesn't overshoot too much and start a see saw condition around set point.

Being cold has no effect on how the governor operates. Best to warm up the engine especially when using a governor. You could get in trouble pretty quickly. You can't protect the engine at this point by listening to it.

Ace
What could be more fun?

11-09-2009 01:13 PM

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AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

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Today’s Video

First of all my hat goes off to the pilot. I wish I could do that. But what I see in this video doesn't look good for the longevity of that engine the way it is set up. Every time you hear the RPM sag the throttle is being buried. It appears to be happening the moment you do anything other than hover or forward flight.

I don't know how this relates to other 20EI powered helies but this one is laboring. Personally I don't feel this engine is strong enough for the weight it has to carry. The 231 is about as small as you want to go for 3Ding for a gasser IMO. The 20EI would probably work for me or any beginner that is just going to putt, putt around.

Ace
What could be more fun?

11-09-2009 01:30 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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First of all my hat goes off to the pilot. I wish I could do that

So do I he's good isn’t he

He said it was taking 5 seconds to recover the head speed after a move so it was a tricky flight making those moves

Ace this is a 700 with a 231 in the Video and not the 20cc, I did have a 600 with a 20cc motor and you might be thinking of that one but that also has a 231 fitted now

I've checked the governor and it was set wrong and only giving 80% throttle, that was because I altered the idle trim and curves after the initial setup, need to try it again now and watch what happens at hover.

I only like to fly gassed up

11-09-2009 02:24 PM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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If you don't want to change ratio, get some very light blades maybe 680's or 690's, and try them...That will help, plus you can run higher head speed with the smaller blades...

11-09-2009 09:01 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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If you don't want to change ratio, get some very light blades maybe 680's or 690's, and try them...That will help, plus you can run higher head speed with the smaller blades...

It was suggested at the field I try smaller blades and yes I would rather try a blade change than replace the pinion again but I can’t help thinking something is amiss and that it should fly better than it does, I will wait while I can afford some more blades and give them a try.
PS, the blades I have on are Pro3D and they are wide and heavy
Cheers
Fixit

I only like to fly gassed up

11-09-2009 09:22 PM

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michael_malang

Heliman - Location: philippines - My Posts This: Topic Forum

this is the gasser made from the philippines, fly nice stock zenoah 231 engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ptT...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVE_JycddO8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFEkSm39A-s

11-10-2009 04:51 AM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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Do the easy stuff first

light blades for sure...Carey Shurley is playing with 5.92..

Hey, you guys in the Phil... You guys are getting better and better at the gas game... Good job

11-10-2009 05:24 AM

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michael_malang
Heliman
Location: philippines

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Billme:

the heli is a realheli product and is already in production.it can be ship worldwide now.i have one and love it.heres the website but the new model is not posted here yet but they've already sold a lot.you can reach them trough there website.all carbon gasser heli.

mx9 e for electric
mx9 g gasser
mx9 n nitro

one frame fits all, just different engine mount....

http://www.realheli.com/

11-10-2009 08:13 AM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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I going to step back form it for a while untill I decide the best way forward, a new pinion will cost the same as a set of blades but then I have to move the bearing block and make another base plate.

I only like to fly gassed up

11-11-2009 01:08 AM

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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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Borrow some blades...I'm sure there is a lot of the older 680s around that no one is using...Even in wood...Do the easy stuff first..

11-11-2009 03:57 AM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Nearly everyone is flying Align near me so 680’s are a thing of the past but I can borrow some 680 wood blades but would they handle the head speed?

I only like to fly gassed up

11-11-2009 01:48 PM

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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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..or a hacksaw

pgk

11-11-2009 04:14 PM

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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