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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Campers Fuel vs Gasoline
 
 
kogibankole
Veteran
Location: albuquerque

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I dont know why it would void the warranty, but Al told me that i could run camper fuel in my heli, he also told me to run 2oz of amsoil saber (100:1) to 1 gallon. He mentioned that the lower octane camper fuel makes more torque.

if im not blade bogging youll find me pack puffing
03-08-2009 06:05 AM
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pcinc
Senior Heliman
Location: Westfield, MA

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The 1005 I just got, the guy told me he was running campers fuel with 2 oz of Klotz per gallon. I thought this was a little light on the oil. The most common ratio I've heard so far is 3 1/2 oz per gallon when using the Amsoil Saber
03-08-2009 06:20 AM
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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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Al has had a change of Heart on the camper fuel?
03-08-2009 07:25 AM
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Pinecone
Key Veteran
Location: Maryalnd

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Two different Al's. Al at Hanson and Toxic Al at TRM.

Octane has NOTHING to do with burn temp or burn rate. It ONLY has to do with the resistance to detonation.

Higher octane allows you turn high compression ratios, which can cause more heat and change the burn rate, but that is a function of the compression ratio, NOT the fuel itself.

Terry
Blade CP Trex 450 SE
QJ EP8v2 EX Gaui Hurricane 550
Vibe 50 Bergen Intrepid Gasser
03-08-2009 12:02 PM
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Chris Bergen
Elite Veteran
Location: location

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http://www.coleman.com/coleman/faq/...asp?question=37

Chris Bergen
03-08-2009 09:39 PM
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TaleGunner
Elite Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

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Quote 
Al has had a change of Heart on the camper fuel?

If he did it been in the last week! I just got my new 3D max last Thursday. And that quote came from the printed sheet that came with the motor and I also have it in an email from him, I can forward.

BTW: I'm not saying don't use it or you shouldn't as I don't have enough experience I was just posting what was told to me last week by Al Hanson

As I said before I'm going to do what the motor builder recommends

and if Al at toxic likes it then it should be OK for his motors as well.

seems like the link Chris Bergen posted link pretty much says it all!

Al, Al, & Chris are all knowledgeable guys so it seem 2 out of 3 don't recommend it and 1 does!

Only 3 out of 4 dentist recommend Denteen gum

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
03-08-2009 09:55 PM
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Chris Bergen
Elite Veteran
Location: location

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But the Ozark brand is OK!!!










Kidding....

Chris Bergen
03-08-2009 10:06 PM
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copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: NY

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Quote 
Al, Al, & Chris are all knowledgeable guys so it seem 2 out of 3 don't recommend it and 1 does!


more like , two for two , if you remember Billme

honestly , some do , some don't , use what you like and enjoy it

.
03-08-2009 10:31 PM
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TaleGunner
Elite Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

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Sorry bill

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
03-08-2009 10:47 PM
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Billme
Elite Veteran
Location: MS

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You guys needs to go re read the warning...their talking about 4 cycle engines, hense 'it will burn the valves"...We all knew that in the first place, but a 2 cycle, its just fine. Not having the gasoline additives is a good thing in my book..

The boat racing folks are going nuts over it all of a sudden btw...

National society of antique engines burns it in their engines, so there is enough out there to convince folks its safe...


Seriously, I don't really care, hehe..

Bill
03-08-2009 11:37 PM
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imnxtc
Veteran
Location: Dawson

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I agree Billme - Also I have found the Ozark to be better then Coleman. I will still use Coleman though, if I cannot find Ozark.
03-08-2009 11:42 PM
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Excalibur
Veteran
Location: Destination: Earth

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The very fact that probably half the people flying gassers are using camp fuel with great success (including Bill Meador), confirms the that it is fine to use in 2-cycle engines. If there were serious problems, word would get out and no one would continue to use it. That just isn't the case.

Like everything else, it's a matter of trying it and seeing if it works for you. The arguments for/against it are now academic.

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
03-09-2009 01:10 AM
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Excalibur
Veteran
Location: Destination: Earth

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Quote 
I agree Billme - Also I have found the Ozark to be better then Coleman. I will still use Coleman though, if I cannot find Ozark.

So where do you go to find Ozark? It has been unavailable in my area for a year or two now.

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
03-09-2009 01:12 AM
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therapyworx
New Heliman
Location: florence, sc usa

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50-55 octane fuel in a gasser!!!!

Hey Guys, Please educate me why would u ever think of putting inferior fuel in your expesinve machines??? Coleman fuel has a lighter molecular weight than gasoline and is hense much more volatile. everyone keeps throwing up burn temperatire and octane numbers. A chemical engineer who works for a petroleum distiller in houston told me that naphtha is a less stable less efficient fuel source compared to 93 octane unleaded pump gas. This is not an opinion it is a mathmatical fact that is undisputable. I also spoke with zenoah usa about the use of 55 octane fuel of any source in their 26cc engine and was told nothing less than 89 octane was recomended. This is what their engineers came up with. So what gives with camp fuel in gas engines. Would u fill up a 120,000. porche 911 with coleman fuel??? Bottom line, 55 octane is way to low for a standard engine. I have a friend with a new 3000. quick heli. He hovered 25 minutes with coleman fuel in the tank and since has not been able to get the engine started. I have weedeaters , blowers, etc.. that i Put 0 maintenance into, I mean none at all, same plug for 2-3 years, a filthy gummed up foam filter, eradic oil mixtures- way to much or hardly any at all. These abused yard tools faithfully fire up and run smooth with an average of 8 years of sever abusive use. I hear guys all over with problematic issues with their helis. The guy with the wal-mart junk blower is not going onto web forums to try and figure out how to get his 2-stroke running. Would u put coleman fuel in a 1600.00 Desert Aircraft Engine??? So why is anybody even thinking about it. It is an inferior, engine damaging fuel source.
06-01-2009 09:14 PM
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greenboot
Veteran
Location: St Louis, Mo

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Quote 
Please educate me why would u ever think of putting inferior fuel in your expesinve machines???
Cause it doesn't smell.


Quote 
Would u fill up a 120,000. porche 911 with coleman fuel???
Not when car gas is so much cheaper.

Tom
06-01-2009 10:19 PM
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GyroFreak
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida ... 28° 52' N 81° 16' W

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Quote 
Cause it doesn't smell.

DITTO:
Been using Coleman from the start (about 2 yrs)on my gasser Zenoah 231 and it looks as clean as the day I started.
3 oz to the gallon of Amsoil and it's a happy camper (pun intended).

Bacteria They're the only culture some men have
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is opti
06-01-2009 10:26 PM
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Excalibur
Veteran
Location: Destination: Earth

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Quote 
Would u put coleman fuel in a 1600.00 Desert Aircraft Engine??? So why is anybody even thinking about it. It is an inferior, engine damaging fuel source.

Yes, I would put camper fuel in a $1600 DA engine, and it would be just fine. Why? Because I have been running it exclusively for several years and have experienced NONE of the problems you are worried about. If your friend ran an engine for 25 minutes on camp fuel and ruined it, I can just about guarantee it was due to improper tuning procedures or a mechanical problem in the engine itself, NOT the camp fuel.

This is an ongoing raging debate that will honestly never be resolved one way or another. There are many people on both sides that swear that their way is the only way, when the bottom line is that there is no definitive answer. Many engine ills have been been blamed on camper fuel in this and other forums, and to the detriment of all, no definitive proof has ever been presented to support their conclusions. Believe me, if camp fuel damages engines it would be posted all over this and every other gasser forum, and even the gurus such as Bill Meador would be warning everyone against the use of it.

Before completely condemning it without even trying it, I suggest you try it yourself and do a comparative test with one gallon of camper fuel versus one gallon of regular gas and make your own decision. One gallon is not going to mess up your engine if it's tuned properly.

It's perfectly cool to have an opinion about which fuel and/or oil you wish to run in your own heli. Just make sure it's YOUR opinion and not someone else's. You owe that much to yourself.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
06-01-2009 10:53 PM
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blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

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Quote 
50-55 octane fuel in a gasser!!!!

Hey Guys, Please educate me why would u ever think of putting inferior fuel in your expesinve machines??? Coleman fuel has a lighter molecular weight than gasoline and is hense much more volatile. everyone keeps throwing up burn temperatire and octane numbers. A chemical engineer who works for a petroleum distiller in houston told me that naphtha is a less stable less efficient fuel source compared to 93 octane unleaded pump gas. This is not an opinion it is a mathmatical fact that is undisputable. I also spoke with zenoah usa about the use of 55 octane fuel of any source in their 26cc engine and was told nothing less than 89 octane was recomended. This is what their engineers came up with. So what gives with camp fuel in gas engines. Would u fill up a 120,000. porche 911 with coleman fuel??? Bottom line, 55 octane is way to low for a standard engine. I have a friend with a new 3000. quick heli. He hovered 25 minutes with coleman fuel in the tank and since has not been able to get the engine started. I have weedeaters , blowers, etc.. that i Put 0 maintenance into, I mean none at all, same plug for 2-3 years, a filthy gummed up foam filter, eradic oil mixtures- way to much or hardly any at all. These abused yard tools faithfully fire up and run smooth with an average of 8 years of sever abusive use. I hear guys all over with problematic issues with their helis. The guy with the wal-mart junk blower is not going onto web forums to try and figure out how to get his 2-stroke running. Would u put coleman fuel in a 1600.00 Desert Aircraft Engine??? So why is anybody even thinking about it. It is an inferior, engine damaging fuel source.

therapyworx

Thank you for taking the time to educate us on the finer points of gasoline engines . I see you fly a Blade 400 and have 3 posts so far on RR . And as if that alone isn't enough , I have to admit I stand in absolute awe of your years of experience abusing weedeaters and blowers . I can't speak for everyone here , but I can say I will be following your future posts here in the gasser forum , and hanging on every word . Hopefully I will be able to absorb some of your incredible experience based wisdom . You are the man

RR Master wannabe
06-01-2009 11:20 PM
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imnxtc
Veteran
Location: Dawson

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Excaliber

You saved me a lot of typing. I agree 110%

I, and three other gasser pilots have been using it at our field for over 3 years without any problems. 'nuff said.
06-01-2009 11:23 PM
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GyroFreak
Elite Veteran
Location: Florida ... 28° 52' N 81° 16' W

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The link provided by Chris states it will burnout your valves. I think they are referring to poppet valves in 4 cycle. Two cycles for the most part do not have poppet valves.

Bacteria They're the only culture some men have
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is opti
06-01-2009 11:52 PM
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Campers Fuel vs Gasoline
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