RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - OK, Scorpion Motors are really starting to piss me off!

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e-Electric Motors - Controllers - ESC > OK, Scorpion Motors are really starting to piss me off!

QueeQueg
Veteran
Location: West Texas

My Posts This: Topic Forum

I replaced my 4035 560 bearings with a set of NSKs I had from some Hirobo EVO 90 grips I had and use Mobil 1 synthetic HS bearing greaseto lube them. I've run it over 100 flights now with no trouble.

The Scorpion bearings even look cheap. I pull them before their first fight since I'm not about to oil them period.

I've trashed bearings on Neus and Kohlers too. 20,000 RPMs and a lot of side thrust is hard on them period.

12-28-2008 Over year old.

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OICU812
rrProfessor
Location: Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada

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Quote
Who ever heard of having to oil bearings in an electric motor, especially so often.

Hmm let me see, well I have had "many" Actro motors, many of which had bearings fail. Last two I sent all way back to Germany, guess what they said, we are not replacing the shafts, nor the bearings cause you did not maintain them. I asked wtf did that mean??, they said the recommended that the user oils them. Heck they don't even write or speak about it like Scorpion clearly does in their manuals and in their ads online. Something to think about, since Actros cost 3 times more as well, this was a huge pi$$off. To add to this story I also recently had a Kontronik Tango 45-8 have the bearings go, all in less then 30 flights on it, guess what they asked me if I was doing??? YUP oiling the bearings....And yes the Prize mentioned NEU motors, had over 20 of those as well, went through bearings on them to, they are not allergic to bearings going either so I agree to disagree on those comments to.

Still think that oiling bearings in motors is all that un common?

I now oil "all" bearings from every motor manufacturer, regardless of what they say. This is not only a super simple 20 second process with the oiler kit that comes with needles that costs 6 bucks, but has also saved me alot of money on bearings in all my motors and alot of BS. Why can some people not take 20 seconds to do some simple preventative maintenence here in this respect? I don't understand......

two cents on this matter.......

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

01-03-2009 Over year old.

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QueeQueg
Veteran
Location: West Texas

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I figure a 100 flights and it's time for an inspection. Kinda like a 100 HR inspection on a full size. Last month a close look at my Raptor found a crack in the head block, luckily before it came apart

I'm using bearings that cost over twice as much for one as Scorpion sells theirs for two. And you can see and feel the difference in quality. If you use 2 dollar bearings in a high stress environment you'll get what you pay for.

As for oiling, it sure can't hurt. Just do it regularly. I personally just don't like the hassle and mess.

I can remember when Frank Kohler would have had a bird if you sent in an Actro that had the bearings oiled. He would have claimed the oil washed the grease out and caused the failure

He once sent me and two of my friends Actronic ESCs to the same LHS that were duds out of the box. Not one worked. He claimed we fried them by using a BEC to power them up and charged us 110 bucks each to fix them while we waited 3 months

01-03-2009 Over year old.

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Sky Dancer
Senior Heliman
Location: San Antonio, Texas

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Has anyone used Ceramic Bearings in their Scorpion 2221-XX motor?

I've heard that Ceramic Bearings in Nitro engines didn't worked out too well.

I'd like to find out who's used them and what experience (good or bad) they've had. I'm just not sure what their life span will be running at 40,000 to 50,000 rpm.

Don C

Keep your rotor speed up !

01-04-2009 Over year old.

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QueeQueg
Veteran
Location: West Texas

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I've read where some people have tried ceramic but not the results. If they get dry they'll trash too. That's the ticket is keeping them lubed and clean.

I'd like to try some sealed bearings next. everyone uses shielded bearings and they do two things: let the lube fly out and dust in.

Another reason i don't like oiling is because I live in a desert and dust gets in everything around here. So oiling my bearings might be worse than not.

Like I said earlier Scorpion uses really cheapo bearings. I mean 6 bucks retail for 2 HK 4035 replacements. That size is a common replacement for most if not all 90 sized main blade grips. Try and find anyone selling one replacement for what Scorpion sells two.

If I had more money than sense I'd try putting some of the Scorpion cheapos in a 90 grip and spin it at 2000 RPM

01-04-2009 Over year old.

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tornet
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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I am on my way to change bearing in my 1400 3026 v2 motor, but I forgot where the washer (not the C-clip) should go. I dismounted it couple of weeks ago, so forgot. I think it is inside, could someone confirm.

The stock bearings are really bad, but I noticed that the spare bearings that scorpion are selling are from S.K (not same as the one mounted in new motor). Anyhow, maybe worth a trial ?

01-11-2009 Over year old.

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stanc
Key Veteran
Location: Conroe, TX

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QueeQueg

Quote
If I had more money than sense I'd try putting some of the Scorpion cheapos in a 90 grip and spin it at 2000 RPM

I have one of the first HK4035-560 motors in my eStratus and run it at 2100, not had a problem yet other than the Scorpion runs a little warmer than the 32-3 I had in it. Just bought another HK4035-500 for my eAvro, that I will run at 2000 to 2100. Time will tell how they hold up. I have four 32-3s that have never been oiled and no problems with bearings have come to the surface, but then maybe I don't put as many flights on my birds as some of you guys.

Stan
Logo 500
Ion X2
eStratus
eAvro90
eRaptor 50/90

01-11-2009 Over year old.

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QueeQueg
Veteran
Location: West Texas

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The washer is for shimming the outer case so there isn't too much movement. It goes on the shaft where it comes through the fan part of the case at the bottom before you put the motor back together.

A little play is no problem but you don't want it too tight.

Make sure you use a little Loctite preferably green on the outer bearing races in the pockets. Don't overdue it so that you get any in the bearings.

01-11-2009 Over year old.

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tornet
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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Thanks, just for final understanding, no washer under the c-clip, right ?

01-11-2009 Over year old.

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QueeQueg
Veteran
Location: West Texas

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Right

01-11-2009 Over year old.

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wrathofkhan
Veteran
Location: LA, CA - US

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i thought the washer goes on top of the casing, and then the c-clip?

is the drawing not correct?

also, the bearing oil readyheli sells, is that good for any type of motor bearing?

khan

01-11-2009 Over year old.

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QueeQueg
Veteran
Location: West Texas

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If that's what they reccomend then that's what you should do.

I've had these motors since before that was posted and put the washer down in the motor since the bearing race was riding on aluminum and it seemed logical to me. One early motor that I have has two washers. one is steel and the other brass and one goes in both places.

The only bearing I actually had fail was the output end and it locked up and turned in the bearing pocket galling it up.

If the bottom bearing did this it would do the same to the fan end so I'm leaving mine there it works fine either place I guess.

01-11-2009 Over year old.

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wrathofkhan
Veteran
Location: LA, CA - US

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i actually did the picture/drawing. i am not sure where the washer is supposed to go either. as far as i recall when i disassembled my 4221 and my 4025 -the washer was right under the c-clip

cheers, khan

01-11-2009 Over year old.

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tornet
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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In meantime I got message from another forum that the washer should go under the c-clip.

What is disturbing me is that I have to change shaft due to this wearing, I inspected my 1600kv 3026 v2 motor after just 10 flights with bocca bearing and guess what .. shaft going bad again. I start to wonder is the actual bearings are not aligned in the motor as some people have zero issue with the shaft.

What do you think ?

01-12-2009 Over year old.

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QueeQueg
Veteran
Location: West Texas

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Gonna order a 4 pack of these brand new Boca Orange Seal Ceramic Hybrids for my two HK 4035s and see how they hold up. Look interesting.

http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=docs&id=35

01-21-2009 Over year old.

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OICU812
rrProfessor
Location: Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada

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Quee I would be weary of bearings with removable seals on something that spins over 20K, might be worth an email to them for a solid recommendation.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

01-21-2009 Over year old.

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QueeQueg
Veteran
Location: West Texas

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I think I will ate one too, good idea

01-21-2009 Over year old.

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QueeQueg
Veteran
Location: West Texas

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I emailed them and got a quick response:

What do you think of your new Orange Seal hybrids in RC Heli brushless motors turning about 20 to 22 thousand RPMs. We're having some troubles with our bearings in some cases and I'd like to try some of the 8x16x5mms if you think they would not be obviously beyond they're capabilities. They'll be running with a spur gear and brief peak power levels of nearly 4000 watts. If kept oiled SS shielded units seem to last for a while. I'm looking for something that will be less maintenance intensive.

Thank you for your email. I think the OS bearings would work well for you. The seals will keep the bearing lubricated and the Rpm would not be an issue. Please let me know if there are any other questions.

I think I'll get a set or maybe a 4 pack and give them a whirl. For me oiling is realy not a good idea. It is so dusty around here

01-22-2009 Over year old.

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OICU812
rrProfessor
Location: Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada

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very cool, keep us updated.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

01-22-2009 Over year old.

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HeliCSR
Senior Heliman
Location: Hesperia, Ca, US

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http://www.bocabearings.com/

These guys make nice bearings, with RPM ratings.

Calculate your motor RPM, then select a bearing with an RPM
rating higher then that.

I bought twice from this company, 10 dollar orders and they
send me a nice mouse pad with metric and imperial crossover chart.

I fly and then I fly some more.
If it don't glitch then I won't crash.

01-24-2009 Over year old.

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e-Electric Motors - Controllers - ESC > OK, Scorpion Motors are really starting to piss me off!

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