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Got Jet Fuel? Turbine Helicopters > Turbine PHT3
 
 
birdeye
Heliman
Location: Bratislava, Slowak Republik- Europe

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I own a heli with PHT3 turbine, actually 914 U 1/min on the head. I would like to increase the payload, is it better to increase the diameter of the current rotor (1800 mm, 2 blades), or change for a multiblade head? if so, what diameter, what blades (Vario)? I have no experience with multiblade heads, thanks for any opinion or recommendation.
12-04-2008 08:00 PM
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PETER ROB
Key Veteran
Location: Devon UK

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birdeye, with that headspeed, is the turbinen PHT3 or PHT-3,
What heli is it in, and what heli are you going to put it in?
How much weight do you want to lift?
Peter R
12-04-2008 09:09 PM
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birdeye
Heliman
Location: Bratislava, Slowak Republik- Europe

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Turbine PHT3 1283 1/min convertet from 914 1/min.
,air star Jetcopter SX ,HeliCam,payload minimum 20 kg

Peter, Bratislava

12-04-2008 09:33 PM
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PETER ROB
Key Veteran
Location: Devon UK

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20 kilo minimum

Peter, too many Peter's on this forum
My Vario, 1/4 scale turbine JetRanger weighs 20 Kgs, that was flying on an old PHT3 with 6mm belts, been flying for 5 years, Just sent the mechanics back to JetCat for service, noisy bearing, upgrade to latest spec, which will be 9mm belt, and a larger clutch I would expect,
It has the 2.5 metre blades, not sure what the exact headspeed was but less than 900rpm
With your heli you would probably be better off with the 3 blade head and 3or 4 blade tail, to counteract the torque produced with heavy load lifting
Peter R
12-04-2008 10:50 PM
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MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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With the PHT3 your capped at a certain head speed,i would recommend you go to larger blades.. eg MAH 850 tapered blades, equal lift along the entire blade chord, which will lighten your disk loading..ON THAT SIZE OF MACHINE,

I know Peter wales had one of these, i only have set one up..

or sab highlift blades,

With those size blades you could lift a good payload, but you will have to watch that the blades dont fall into the circle of your tail.. your jetcopter is a similar chasis to my Hotcat, on the hotcat i could go up to 900 blades and it would not hit the tail..

any longer and i would have to increase the length of the boom.. on yours you would have to do the same, and i doubt there is a belt driven system that is that long, so you may have to change your system to torque tube which would mean modifying your tail drive completely.

I am currently using 850 blades and running a head speed of 1350/1400

Matt
12-04-2008 10:53 PM
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birdeye
Heliman
Location: Bratislava, Slowak Republik- Europe

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My Turbíne ist Neu version mit 9 mm belts and blue clutch
12-04-2008 11:19 PM
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Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

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You can never have too many Peters

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org
12-05-2008 03:22 AM
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PETER ROB
Key Veteran
Location: Devon UK

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Too many Peter's

Well said Peter, Peter,Peter,Peter,Peter,
Peter R
12-05-2008 08:58 AM
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PETER ROB
Key Veteran
Location: Devon UK

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birdeye,Peter, You have to decide what your finished payload is going to be,
It may be that your present air frame is not suitable for the end task
I would sugest more research before you start altering what you have already
Your headspeed is capped at the moment but it is possible to get a higher headspeed by going into the software, I would sugest that you do not go down this road without looking at all the other problems this would incur
Peter R
12-05-2008 09:10 AM
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PETER ROB
Key Veteran
Location: Devon UK

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i dont fly with a heavy pay load,

Matt, You have said you do not fly with heavy payloads, and yet you advise changing the blades, lengthening the boom
Maybe this is a time to listen, instead of putting out conflicting advice
Peter R
12-05-2008 09:15 AM
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MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Maybe this is a time to listen, instead of putting out conflicting advice

You feel you have the right to come acccross as the be all and end all..

You dont fly with heavy pay loads - Chopper jockey does,

i understand what he is trying to do,if you disagree FINE that is your right...

You were advising him to put much bigger blades on machine and change a rotor head, on machine that is belt driven and is similar size to my hotcat, if he did indeed follow your advice he would have had blades smashing into his tail blades.. you never advised him on a precaution of flying with big blades, or that he would have to change his boom and tail drive if he put blades over a certain size,
You just made the point you fly with 1/4 scale machine using 2.5meter blades, which is not helpful at all as it is a different machine all together, bigger size frame, bigger main shaft, and that it runs at a head speed he has just upgraded from..

he was asking the question what does he need to do to be able lift with his jetcopter..


I have flown with Bell bloke who uses a Hawk for camera work, he has also done tests on on his predator turbine lifting a heavy bike, they way he got round using a smaller machine was to increase the blades size up to 850mm that gave him a lifting capacity of around 30/40lb..
He also sped up the tail using a 14-13tooth gear, to cope with the heavy payload, this is a far cheaper way than what you are recommending,changing rotor head, etc...

The above that i have recommened will cost him about $300 max,and he can keep his current machine which he is very happy with, your method will cost him considerably more..

That is why i said increase your blade size to a point, cos at the moment he is flying with smaller blades, i also made the point that the biggest he could go to on his jetcopter is about 850mm/900.., using tapered blades will give an equal amount of lift... and help out with a heavy payload..

that info is correct, is it not ? it is just different to yours and as always you feel threatened by my comments and have to come on all aggressive... GROW UP.


Matt
12-05-2008 09:56 AM
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MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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I have also upped the head speed on mine, going up in small increments will not hurt providing it is done carefully and methodically..

Matt
12-05-2008 10:23 AM
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PETER ROB
Key Veteran
Location: Devon UK

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Here we go again

Matt, you really ought to read the post before blasting off,
Why 2000, words when a lot less would say a lot more
Peter R
12-05-2008 11:02 AM
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birdeyeHeliman - Location: Bratislava, Slowak Republik- Europe - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Thank you very much for your answers. I know the mechanical relations by rotor diameter change. I can use (in my configuration) max. lenght of blades 940mm. I'd like this blades apply: http://de.vario-helicopter.biz/shop...ducts_id=37430. Please, what is experiences (max. payload) with this blades by rotorspeed 900RPM. I havn't much time for tests and every advice is very rare. This projekt is destined for carriage of camera I thank you for all you experiences in advice.

Peter, Bratislava
12-05-2008 10:15 PM
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Turbinator
Senior Heliman
Location: Nanticoke, PA

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MATJEN I after reading various posts on this site for quite some time I find your harsh words towards Peters posts annoying to say the least already. Lighten up dude, this is supposed to be a fun forum not a bash some one I'm right your wrong all the time forum, when I see your handle comment in a topic my first thought is what is this know it all going to add this time, put a sock in it already. I know I'm tired of your know it all additions and it takes alot to tire me so I'm sure many others feel the same. You guys need to meet and have some pints or some thing, stop chucking stones all the time or save them for PM's, it ruins good readings you guys arguing all the time.
12-06-2008 03:16 AM
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avconslt
Senior Heliman
Location: Houston, Texas

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AMEN!!

o
12-06-2008 03:54 AM
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MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Turbinator...

Thanks for your comments,

I would recommend you re read the posts and see who cast the first stone, if Peter disagrees fine, but his way is not the only way, and he is not the be all and end all of this forum..although he likes to think he is!

I am sure if he had said that to you, you would answer back as i have..

Now please move on..



Matt
12-06-2008 09:42 AM
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PETER ROB
Key Veteran
Location: Devon UK

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What blades

birdeye,Peter,I did all the initial testing on the XLV/HobbyParts/JetCat conversion, with the end aim to be a stable camera platform ship( there are a large number out operating now)
The better lifting blades were reflex, the flat bottom ones, they did suffer in high winds, because of their lifting capabilities
I know this is not you heli but the blade characteristics, will give the same result
If you keep to the 900 headspeed, then the only way of increasing the lift capabilities is to increase the pitch, but with a combination of increaseed headspeed and increased pitch, a small increase to both can really improve the weight lifted
No matter what your increased headspeed and pitch are, it will always increase the torque loading, and therefor, the tail holding will have to be addressed
Have fun
Peter R
12-06-2008 10:28 AM
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Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

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Quote 
If you keep to the 900 headspeed, then the only way of increasing the lift capabilities is to increase the pitch

Not the only way Peter. The XLV I have been involved with has just reported lifting 45 lbs. Thats a payload of 45lbs over its own 20+ lbs weight.

How? Headspeed 900 rpm and 3 blades. Simply adding another blade will increase the lifting power between 30 and 50% at the same headspeed and pitch. However I do agree on one point, any increase in lifting power will need a corresponding increase in tail rotor power to counter the torque so it uses a 3 blade tail with 140mm tail blades as well.

Now, I appreciate you cant fit 1090mm blades on a Jetcopter, but you can increase the number of blades on both head and tail without too much difficulty

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org
12-06-2008 12:24 PM
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PETER ROB
Key Veteran
Location: Devon UK

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Increasing pitch

Thanks Peter,Good to see someone else on the same wavelength
At the end of my second post I advised 3 blade head and 3 or 4 on the tail
The later post was assuming he was to stay with the 2 blade head
I have it on good authority that the PHT3 in the right hands will lift 100 Lbs, not something I have tried
Peter R
12-06-2008 01:06 PM
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