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Piro Tic Tocs & Chaos

Heliflyer3D

Heliman

USA

I am trying to progress on my 3D skillz. I already know aileron tic tocs, elevator tic tocs, piro flips, funnels, pie dishes, hurricanes, but I want to know how you do a piro tic toc. I know it's probably hard to explain, but only try to your best ability. Also I need Help on the Chaos maneuver.

If you can do it, I can do it better...and inverted :o)

11-18-2008 Over year old.
Sean Williams

Elite Veteran

Santa Clarita CA

Piro tic tocs took me a while to figure out. I almost do a diamond shaped stir, I guess would be the best way to describe it. Also, for the same piro rate you stir a little quicker than a piro flip.

Chaos (assuming you mean the flipping axis changing in the maneuver) is incredibly difficult. I can only do them about halfway before the whole thing falls apart.

Team Avant
Team Triforce

▲▲

11-20-2008 Over year old.
Heliflyer3D

Heliman

USA

OK

If you can do it, I can do it better...and inverted :o)

11-21-2008 Over year old.
Heliflyer3D

Heliman

USA

WOOHOO! I learned how to do piro tic tocs in just 1 day

YAAAAAAY!

Thanx for your help

If you can do it, I can do it better...and inverted :o)

11-22-2008 Over year old.
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

Now try a piro tic-toc reversal.

www.JustinJee.com

11-26-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
"Cam"

Key Veteran

UK

you mean toc-tics?

DSX9
EMax V2
http://runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/37491/

11-26-2008 Over year old.
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

A piro flip is flipping in the same direction, a chaos involves a reversal of the flip direction, very diferent from a piro tictoc.

If you watch Alan Szabo Jr carefully, you will notice perfect flips in the same direction (normally away from him). Check videos for other guys like Curtis Youngblood, Dominic Hagerle, and others who do chaos.
There are also 2 diferent chaos's, inside and outside.

There are dozen or more post in RR describing the 2. Search them out.

Team Minicopter - PeakAircraft.com
Scorpion Motors - bavarianDEMON - Team Kontronik USA

11-27-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
GimbalFan

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

a chaos involves a reversal of the flip direction, very diferent from a piro tictoc.
Saying a chaos involves 'a reversal of the flip direction' is a little misleading.

A proper chaos has the axis of its flip slowly rotating (parallel to the ground) rather than remaining fixed like in a piroflip. In this sense it does eventually become 'reversed', when the flip axis has rotated 180 from where it started.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

11-29-2008 Over year old.
Dynamite

Senior Heliman

Odessa

I still couldn't understand how to perform a piro tic-toc and I will be glad if someone can explain it a little more detailly...

JR Vibe 90 , Sylphide 90 C , JR Vibe 50 , JR AS 50 , T-rex SE V2 , Raptor 50 Titan

12-02-2008 Over year old.
GimbalFan

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

You pirouette -- VERY carefully -- while tic-toc-ing -- VERY carefully.

Can you do a basic tail-down tic toc?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

12-03-2008 Over year old.
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

To do a proper piro tic-toc, one must know how to do a piro rainbow. The level of cyclic input is same but there is no abrupt direction change (although it does at extreme ends).

How to learn piro rainbow

1. Learn rainbow in 4 orientations to remember rough cyclic inputs.
* the focus should be lining up the disc (seen as an edge from pilot's view) at the center of arc.
2. do 4 point piro rainbow to learn the stirring direction.
3. Start the normal rainbow and apply rudder for one piro and try to keep the disc as an edge (no twist) and try to point it at the center.
4. If you get comfotable and be able to keep the disc as an edge and be able to point it at the center, add more piros.
5. Finally, tough part is to bring it to a stop while still pirouetting. As the pitch is being reduced to stop to heli at the end of the rainbow, spiral in the cyclic toward the neutral. But keep very very very small stirring inputs to keep the timing.
6. If you can complete and end it in a piro hover, learn the opposite direction.

There are two ways to reverse rainbow direction.

1. Do a step 6 stop method before changing direction
2. For hard stop and change direction, cyclic had to move 180deg (i.e. pull to push, left to right etc) in sync with pitch reversing.

www.JustinJee.com

12-03-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Tail_BoomStrike

Key Veteran

N.A.

I thought I never gonna touch this subject again..... But, I regret, I'm gonna have to..... (red_Z06, I know you gonna be laughing your a$$ off, when you read this, cause I know you have the answer, and just observing how it turns out ).....

The most debated maneuver, namely, Chaos......


http://www.fly3dx.com/setManoeuvres.htm

Maneuver number 12, if one of you would click the link above please..... Would someone, please, give more detailed description as to how exactly that maneuver looks like?


Then maneuver 17, from above link, off course.... Then below, a thread with video link.......

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...ghlight=googley

Those two video on that tread are the same..... My question is, did the pilot execute in the video, based on your answer from above question, a valid "Chaos Loop"?.......

12-11-2008 Over year old.
Sean Williams

Elite Veteran

Santa Clarita CA

Maneuver number 12, if one of you would click the link above please..... Would someone, please, give more detailed description as to how exactly that maneuver looks like?
Think doing a forward flip, an aileron roll to the right, back flip, and aileron roll to the left, whilst piro flipping continuously in place.

Team Avant
Team Triforce

▲▲

12-11-2008 Over year old.
Tail_BoomStrike

Key Veteran

N.A.

I know you know what I'm trying to point out...... Well, you responded to Q1. But not Q2...... That was fine for now...... But let's hear some more answers.....

12-11-2008 Over year old.
zack108

Senior Heliman

Baltimore Md

simulator

zack

12-31-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
S76 Mech

Elite Veteran

Hatboro, Pa.

piro tic toc videos?

Has anyone come across a two in one video showing both the heli and stick movements of a piro tic toc? I think it would help others and especially me to see the stick movements during the manuver.

thks
Rick

RIP Dave Bandish 1954-2014
Gaui X7, NX4, X3

01-02-2009 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Sean WilliamsElite Veteran - Santa Clarita CA -

piro tic toc videos?
Has anyone come across a two in one video showing both the heli and stick movements of a piro tic toc? I think it would help others and especially me to see the stick movements during the manuver.
Right here in this video starting at around 59 seconds.

[rrtv]/helicopter/rrTV-Photo/funflies/IRCHA2007/rrIRCHA07-Stick2-Alan.wmv[/rrtv]

Team Avant
Team Triforce

▲▲

01-02-2009 Over year old.
S76 Mech

Elite Veteran

Hatboro, Pa.

Thanks Game!

Looks like the stir is quite quick. Also looked like his pattern was like a triangle with the point at the bottom. Will give it ago on the Sim!

RIP Dave Bandish 1954-2014
Gaui X7, NX4, X3

01-02-2009 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
GimbalFan

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

the stir is quite quick.
I'm learning piro maneuvers now too.

Besides appropriate collective & rudder inputs, it seems that most important is to learn to exactly match the speed of one's 'stirring of the (cyclic) stick' with the speed of the piro. Easier said than done.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

01-02-2009 Over year old.
red_z06

rrProfessor

Dumont, NJ

Most starting out to do piro-flip will think the stirring will resemble a circle. For a typical heli setup with same percentage elev and aile swash mix, due to the mass distribution, roll rate will be quicker than the flip rate.

This is due to the radius of gyration or mass momoent of inertia WRT the given axis. Think of a pirouetting figure staker with arms out and in.

For this reason, to do a constant rate flip/roll, your stirring will have to resemle a vertically longer ellipse. For those who do a lot of piro maneuvers, it would help to match the roll/flip rate. Since you can't increase the flip rate, you typically reduce the roll rate to match the flip rate.

To do this, you first max out the cyclic for both elev and aile. You then time the flip rate with a stop watch. Now do the roll. It will be much faster than elev rate. To reduce the rate, you go to the swash mix and turn down the aile rate by 5% or so and 1-2% adjustment after that. You may have to reduce the aile rate about 10% or so.

Once you match the roll/flip rate, your piro-flip will require more circular stir than a previous elliptical stir. BTW, this setup will more or less resemble your sim setup. You will notice that the flip/roll rate on a sim is identical.

I hope this helps.

www.JustinJee.com

01-02-2009 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
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