RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - Tail doesnt hold

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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > Tail doesnt hold

airboss
Elite Veteran
Location: OC ,california

My Posts This: Topic Forum

using hyper tail set up and have lost control 2 times this week on the same heli. and also noticed tail drive gears are stripped after emerg landing, someimes not pretty.
is anyone experiencing any problems with their hyper drive?
and why are my gears stripped?

OCRM....flyBlackstarr.org.

10-12-2008 Over year old.

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HiroboFreak
Senior Heliman
Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia

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I've never had a problem with mine but I've heard reports of the HyperDrive one-way bearings slipping. (rare)

As for the gears stripping.... a sudden slip and grab may have caused it

T-rex700n 3G FBL | T-rex500 ESP | JR DSX9

10-12-2008 Over year old.

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airboss
Elite Veteran
Location: OC ,california

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I do huge high speed piro loops both directions and always try to not stop sudden. could the piros be causing the failure? I didnt do these a few months ago and never had a problem previous.
so for now I'm going back to the OEM drives.

OCRM....flyBlackstarr.org.

10-13-2008 Over year old.

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Carl Bonta
Senior Heliman
Location: Elgin, IL USA

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If the HYPERdrive slips typically there will be a warning or a slight lose of tail control but not total lose.

We believe that what happens is the coupler slips and galls, then gets distorted in the bore of the coupler and locks itself to the shaft pretty well.

You can usally tell if this has happened by swabbing the shaft and coupler and if there is a large amount of grey oil on the swab then it has slipped.

I typically will use a bit of red loctite on the shaft and then lock the couple onto it. The best way to see if yours will slip is to hold the head and turn the tail and you can actually feel the tube wind up I know it sounds strange but it does, we have learned this in our tests. This is also a good way to check the stock TT setup as well
If your tube ends are slipping in the the bearings you will find that the tail will feel weird even in a hover under no load. However the twist test will expose this problem.

None of these problems if they occur in the air will cause the gears to strip, mesh is usally the cause for them to strip in flight or gyro settings.

Hope this helps.

10-13-2008 Over year old.

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cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

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Yes I have had them slip on both my machines. No instructions included to indicate the use of red loctite on the couplers. I have also tightened the crap out of the coupler and they still slip.

I'm wondering if the Hyper Drive is worth the extra fussing.

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.

10-13-2008 Over year old.

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airboss
Elite Veteran
Location: OC ,california

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Carl B

thanks for the info. I accumulated over 75 flights with the stock drives and never had an issue. and since the hyper drive was installed I did have a coupler slip a few weeks back. and it was tightened. but from what I read here we need to lock those to the input shafts.
I will be doing the tear down this evening and will let you all know whats up.

OCRM....flyBlackstarr.org.

10-13-2008 Over year old.

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Forced_Inductio
Senior Heliman
Location: Camrose, AB

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sorry if im thread jacking, but ive always wondered this.

What is the benefiet of the hyperdrive over the stock drive? is it smoother? is it ease of tail maintenance?

10-14-2008 Over year old.

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airboss
Elite Veteran
Location: OC ,california

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the benefit is alignment and ease of assembly, you dont have the 12 set screws or roll pin of the oem TT.

post crash inspection revealed no slipping of the drive hubs and the input shaft tail gear is missing all teeth and output gear is missing 2. some how the gears stripped during flight, this is the same damage of my previous crash last week.
whats up guys?????

OCRM....flyBlackstarr.org.

10-14-2008 Over year old.

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cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

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What gyro are you running airboss? I'm sure you've put in the required delays since you've been running the N9's for a while.

It wasn't a gear mesh issue was it? I've seen the input shaft gear set screw back out before. The pin loosens and that could cause a mesh issue.

When you say there was no slipping of the couplers on the Hyper drive. Did you look inside the coupler and see if it was smooth? On mine I've seen them where the shaft looks fine, but upon further inspection the inside of the coupler was showing evidence of slippage.

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.

10-14-2008 Over year old.

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airboss
Elite Veteran
Location: OC ,california

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using the 611/9256 , and dont have any special settings....hmmm ..I think we may have the problem. is there a special set up for N9?
gear mesh is perfect.

OCRM....flyBlackstarr.org.

10-14-2008 Over year old.

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Futura SE
Veteran
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas

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YES, you are supposed to set in a little delay for stoppage. Absolutely. With a Solid G it is programmed into with Curtis's parameters. It is a necessity since the tail drive system is so rigid. Soemthing HAS to give. I think you found your problem.

The delay does not effect performance it only decelerates the tail a milisecond before it is slammed to a stop. No performance difference, just welcome applause from your tail gears and crown

Norman Ross Jr.

10-14-2008 Over year old.

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cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

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airboss,

Here's a quick and dirty setup.

GY-601/611 Gyro setup

Step 1: Set gyro direction

Step 2: Set mode to (AVC)
Step 3: Set flight mode to 3D
Step 4: Set limit A, B anything over 120% is good
Step 5: Set gain to 35%, no more than 37% gain is needed.
Set start delay both A and B to 15%
Set stop delay both A and B to 40%

I run stop delay at 50%.

Good luck.

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.

10-14-2008 Over year old.

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airboss
Elite Veteran
Location: OC ,california

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thanks everyone... I love my synergy's and have no desire to fly another brand. but even I will miss a thing or two once in a while.
thanks again and I will post my findings. note I still have one N9 set up with hyper drive and the other will get the oem, and will
re-program my 611s.

OCRM....flyBlackstarr.org.

10-14-2008 Over year old.

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STUPINEER
Senior Heliman
Location: allen tx

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Here's a quick and dirty setup.

GY-601/611 Gyro setup

Step 1: Set gyro direction

Step 2: Set mode to (AVC)
Step 3: Set flight mode to 3D
Step 4: Set limit A, B anything over 120% is good
Step 5: Set gain to 35%, no more than 37% gain is needed.
Set start delay both A and B to 15%
Set stop delay both A and B to 40%

I run stop delay at 50%.

I have never changed the factory settings on any of my 611. why do we need so much delay on the stop? I know this sound like a stupid question. I just dont understand the delay setup. I thought the delay ment the tail would not stop where you wanted it too. Like on a clock if you wanted it to stop at 12 and you had 40%. it would stop 1 or 2.

If something hasn't broken on your helicopter, it's about to.'

10-14-2008 Over year old.

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cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

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It's to soften the start and stop of the tail. With the Synergy having practically no "give" in the drive system something has to give and it's usually the crown gear. Sometimes it can be the tail gears.

I would think that with today's type of maneuvers that many helis would benefit from this type of tail/gyro setup.

If you go easy on the starting and stopping then you may not see any problems with stock settings on a 611.

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.

10-14-2008 Over year old.

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Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

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Quote
I have never changed the factory settings on any of my 611. why do we need so much delay on the stop? I know this sound like a stupid question. I just dont understand the delay setup. I thought the delay ment the tail would not stop where you wanted it too. Like on a clock if you wanted it to stop at 12 and you had 40%. it would stop 1 or 2.

It is not noticeable, the delay settings act like releasing the stick gently at centre rather than as sudden stop, happens in milliseconds. Even if you did notice it after a few piro stops you would soon acclimatise..... You have to wrag on the tail pretty hard to strip a crown gear, a lad i know does tail hesitation chaos, took him 3 months to kill 2 crown gears before we figured out he never put the delays in on his 611....

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

10-15-2008 Over year old.

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airboss
Elite Veteran
Location: OC ,california

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thats the thing, the crown gear is fine and the tail bevel gears are stripped.

OCRM....flyBlackstarr.org.

10-15-2008 Over year old.

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airboss
Elite Veteran
Location: OC ,california

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did it again

flying my #2 heli today and during the 4 flight the tail rotor stopped turning during a flip / piro. this is my back up heli with all the same set up and # of flights..and again the tail bevel gears are stripped and the crown and main are undamaged. at post crash inspection there3 is no sign of couplers slipping or
improper backlash. these helis have around 40 flights each with the hyper drives and are now getting switched back to oem TT.all the new settings and delays were entered into the 611 gyro before todays flights. WTF ??? why are my 9s going down?

OCRM....flyBlackstarr.org.

10-18-2008 Over year old.

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Droid
Elite Veteran
Location: Deep down in the Southwest- UK

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Are you saying the tail gears are stripping in the crash or in flight??

I have witnessed one Hyper drive slip however not with total tail loss, just vague like low gain, the Alu ends took some abuse in a crash and i dont believe the TT is now being gripped by the one ways.

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

10-18-2008 Over year old.

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Motomanmel
Senior Heliman
Location: Costa Mesa, Ca 92626

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Guys we need to find the solution to this. I want to fly My N9 more and it going to stay in the garage until this issue is resolved and will be flying my AURORA.
I have the same set up as Airboss but todate no Problems but Scared to fly it...
Airboss Please Post the problem when you find out what it was.
Synergy Test Pilots please help Jim.....

Thanks
Jerome

10-19-2008 Over year old.

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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > Tail doesnt hold

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