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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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Got Jet Fuel? Turbine Helicopters > Ha ha, my Predator turbine build begins
 
 
Doug C
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern CA

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When I put the speed up gears in mine, I had to leave out the small thin brass washer otherwise the whole thing bound up tight when I had the tail case all snug. (I have an "early" plastic tail gear box)

DC
09-17-2008 Over year old.
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Bell Bloke
Key Veteran
Location: ....

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Sometimes you have to use the shims and sometimes you don't. It's all down to where you place the gears on the shafts both input and output. True there are indents in the shafts but within that there is adjustment. I think you had to shorten your brass tube because the output gear was put on nearest the hub. Moving it away from the tail rotor hub would fix that, and then move the input gear towards the helicopter end to give you back your clearance. This is very hard to explain here but easier to do if you dry build first.
As for spinning the tail rotor for freeness.... You should get at lest 2 revolutions of the blades if you spin it in your hand, and this is with no backlash in the tail gearbox, and with the white gear grease in. Hope the helps you folks. All the best Bell Bloke
09-17-2008 Over year old.
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hazchem88
Veteran
Location: W.Mids UK

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thanks for all that, I will take another look.
09-18-2008 Over year old.
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coolice
Key Veteran
Location: Northamptonshire, England

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Hey hazchem88,

With regard to the gears no matter where they are fixed onto the shafts flat spot they will still ride in the same position within the gearbox unless shims are added in front or behind.
For instance on the tail output shaft, if the gear is secured in place towards one side of the flat spot or the other it will only effect the position of the tail output shaft. Small length discrepencys could be measured on the other side of the bearing.

Conversely the pinion gear (being driven off the tube drive) if that is located further back on the shafts flat spot it will not alter the mesh of the gears as it will still only sit back against the bearing. Placing shims behind the gear, between it and the bearing will move it forwards into the gearbox thus changing the gear mesh.

Is it through the use of shims behind the gears (or in front depending on whether you need to tighten the mesh or not) which dictates mesh.

As you spotted the brass sleeve combined with the gear depth sounded just too long, hence as you closed the two gearbox casings together it would not close.
Assuming you would need to add a shim behind the gear to tighten the mesh you would have to shorten the tube slightly more to compensate once again.

Remember any newly built tail gearbox will feel tight until it has had some run time on it, be it metal or plastic geared.
Ideally you need to assemble the gearbox with minimal backlash, but without it being excessively tight to rotate. Fly the model and then after a few tanks check & adjust the gear mesh accordingly and coat again in fresh grease.
Any new gears need time & running to bed into one another as the tooth form will be rough and course.
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Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters
09-18-2008 Over year old.
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hazchem88
Veteran
Location: W.Mids UK

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hi
thanks for all the tail info,
I'll chew over that this weekend.

Meanwhile,
oil (the 5% I need to mix with my kerosene) -
are there any easy to get oils I can use? I mean anything I can buy at B&Q, local motorbike shop or whatever,
or is everyone using proper aeroshell turbine oil?

If I can get something from a car or bike garage, or whatever, then what do I need to look for?

I just want to get everything in place so when the heli is built and set up I can do a test fire.

Also, I bought some 710mm SAB carbon blades for my T-rex700. Can the same type of blade be used on the Pred? Rototech blades that are recommended are hard to find
09-19-2008 Over year old.
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hazchem88
Veteran
Location: W.Mids UK

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read through all the tail info, thanks. Interesting to hear different suggesions, (that almost contradict each other!).

I think the tail will be OK>

Backlash - do I understand this term correctly. If you hold one gear still , is backlash the amount of back and forth movement you can get if you try and turn the other gear back and forth? does that make sense?
09-19-2008 Over year old.
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coolice
Key Veteran
Location: Northamptonshire, England

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Quote 
Backlash - do I understand this term correctly. If you hold one gear still , is backlash the amount of back and forth movement you can get if you try and turn the other gear back and forth? does that make sense?

Hey,

Yes that is it in a nut shell, backlash is the amount of movement a gear can make against another which is held still.
You need a small amount, during any meshing of gears a little backlash is good.
A quick way of setting gearmesh in other areas is with some very fine paper if you are not confident doing it by eye.
Ritzla (spelling?) paper for instance is good as it is very thin.

When it comes to oil WREN also recommend a specific gearbox oil availabel from any Halfords/Car store etc. But for the life of me I cannot remember what it's called, sorry.
Some of WREN's staff are away at Jet Power this weekend but a quick email to Sara next week will no doubt reveal what oil it is.
......... just thinking to myself, the name "Hypoid" Oil comes to mind as this is in the back of my head, but I cannot explain further.
I am still using dedicated Turbine oil and will do until the supply I have runs out then I may switch.

With regards to the differing views on tail mesh setting, Ross knows that the location of the pinion on the shafts flat spot is of no importance, it is the addition of shims either in front or behind the gear which actually moves & holds it in a different position which counts.
The shaft can be protruding through the gear slightly with no adverse effect on the gear mesh, unless it fouls another point within the gearbox.

Your doing well to get everything all lined up ready to fit, that way there is no scrabbling aorund later on trying to find parts you need.

I dont see the 710's being a major problem on the model, Rotor Techs are only 720mm standard. However it is the outer section of the baldes which does the most work as it is spinning the fastest and inturn making the most lift.
Many of us as you know have moved onto 800mm+ main blades so as to lighten the disk loading of the model, of course the boom length needs to alter as well to compensate.
Once you have the model flying, while you are hovering you will get the feel for the blades you are running and decide from there.
I do feel it is a shame you cannot buy (I am yet to see any) a blade length of say 760/780mm, inbetween the RT 720's and the 800's~810's.
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Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters
09-19-2008 Over year old.
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Coolrunnin
Veteran
Location: Manchester U.K.

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The Hypoid oil is for the older wet gearbox lubrication (as opposed to the newer Heavy Duty mist lubricated one).

The two types of oil Wren recommend to mix with the Kerosene are either a Turbine oil (BP 2380, Aeroshell 500, etc.) or a TCW3 spec marine 2-stroke pre-mix (e.g. Mercury Quicksilver).

Hope that helps...
09-19-2008 Over year old.
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coolice
Key Veteran
Location: Northamptonshire, England

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Hey,

Ah ha, thanks for that.

That's why I have that name in my head, as the Predator I have is using the older style wet gearbox.
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters
09-20-2008 Over year old.
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MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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i use the Mobil jet oil as it goes in both turbines,

Matt
09-20-2008 Over year old.
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hazchem88
Veteran
Location: W.Mids UK

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Installing my Futaba servos today.

Took me ages to bind my spektrum AR9100. it just didn't want to know, but it's there now.


I decided maybe it's best to use metal arms.

Century ones are £30!! That is certainly a rip off. I don't want to spend £90 on servos arms.

QuickUK do ones for around £5, but I can either get 'supersized' giving an a minimum radius that is much too long for the pred,
or standard which is too short.

Pred manual says 20mm radius (40 ball to ball) -
so any suggestions where I can get some metal arms in the UK?
09-21-2008 Over year old.
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MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Hazchem
i used the large metal arms from Quick Uk for my Futaba servo's
they fit perfectly, i used a right hand sided arm for the elevator servo, the double one catches.

and as you rightly said £5.00 each

Matt
09-21-2008 Over year old.
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Doug C
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern CA

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Century CN2279F (for Futaba Plastic gears) of CN2279FM (for the metal gear servos) are the ones you need, the outermost hole is set at 20mm



and they are NOT 30GBP each, the Predator set of 4 is USD $30 and USD$7.50 if you buy them individually

DC
09-21-2008 Over year old.
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MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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this was the quick uk metal arm i used

matt
09-21-2008 Over year old.
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hazchem88
Veteran
Location: W.Mids UK

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century uk futaba arm £29.99
http://www.centuryuk.com/Products/U.../Predator?pos=6
so this is a set of 4?! Looks like 1 to me.
CN2279F & CN2279FM comes up with 0 results at century UK

Matt, when you say long do you mean the 'supersize' long, that has a min. size of 25mm
Yours looks like the 'long full', which has a max size of 17.5mm?
Did you stick to the 20mm that century recommend in the pred manual?
http://www.quickuk.eu/products/183/...m_-_futaba.html
Sure 17.5m outer hole would be fine though
09-21-2008 Over year old.
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MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Quick Uk do only 2 metal arms for the futaba servo,

a short and long one, i i use the long one, i got 4 of them and i have had no problems at all,

i also used their balls and screws with the little nuts on the end..

very good and works a treat. Much cheaper than the century

Matt
09-21-2008 Over year old.
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hazchem88
Veteran
Location: W.Mids UK

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back to turbine oils briefly;
I found this old link that I used once before for turbine oil.

http://secure.silmid.com/varius.eng...e=1&code=LUBB03
09-21-2008 Over year old.
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Doug C
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern CA

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Hazchem,

here is the Predator servo arm set (Century CNC MACHINED SERVO ARM PACK (for FUTABA PLASTIC GEAR SERVOS) Part# CN2288F (CN2288FM for the metal gears versions)



Century US gets USD$ 30 for the set of 5 arms.

Doug C
09-22-2008 Over year old.
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MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Doug, you need 4 arms, 2 each for the push pull, servo's ( 4) 1 shorter one for the elevator servo,

Matt
09-22-2008 Over year old.
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Doug C
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern CA

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I know, I already have the metal arms on mine, I was just providing the details on the servo arm pack from Century for the Predator, there is actually an extra, I think it is intended for the "mixture" servo.

DC
09-22-2008 Over year old.
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Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . Ron’s HeliProz South

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Got Jet Fuel? Turbine Helicopters > Ha ha, my Predator turbine build begins
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