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Computer Flight Simulators > phoenix running on Mac
 
 
buster1
Senior Heliman
Location: Manhattan, NY

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		has anyone had any experience running Phoenix Sim on Mac with VM Fusion software - I didn't have great luck running Reflex or Real Flight,

Any suggestions out there from an experienced Mac guy running phoneix successfully would be great,

Thank you,
Jeff
08-21-2008 Over year old.
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TCGliderguy
Veteran
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I had similar results with Parallels... it is just too much computing overhead to overcome.

I run Phoenix with the Apple provided BootCamp booting option... and it runs great on my 2 gHz MacBook Pro (15"

Hope this helps!

-Taylor
08-21-2008 Over year old.
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Synergy
Senior Heliman
Location: Bristol

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I've heard of some who have it running ok under parallels, but apparently takes a little work.

Best just to run under Bootcamp as GliderGuy says - much smoother performance.
08-21-2008 Over year old.
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buster1
Senior Heliman
Location: Manhattan, NY

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Is bootcamp a separate program to buy??
08-22-2008 Over year old.
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bilbo
Veteran
Location: Boston, MA - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have tried it and can confirm that it doesn't work under Parallels. Phoenix starts up and gets as far as the main screen, and then freezes or crashes. It's been a while since I tried it so I don't remember exactly what it does. RealFlight similarly doesn't work.

Parallels only claims to offer partial support for DirectX 8. Both Phoenix and RealFlight list "full DirectX 9 support" in their list of requirements. So it's not really surprising that they won't work.

Some simulators which I have used successfully under Parallels are FMS, Clearview, and HeliRCSim. These all run much slower under Parallels though than under Boot Camp, enough slower that they're significantly less fun to use. So I'd say Boot Camp is still the way to go for running Windows sims on a Mac.
08-22-2008 Over year old.
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Jesse Kavros
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, California

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		You do not have to buy bootcamp, if you have OSX 10.5 (Leopard) it comes pre-installed, on 10.4 you have to download it off the apple website.

I also run bootcamp on my imac and it runs phoenix great.
08-22-2008 Over year old.
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buster1
Senior Heliman
Location: Manhattan, NY

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I am running the latest version of X, just before leopard,
can I download apple bootcamp and make it work with phoenix on my Mac Pro??

Thanks for all your help,
Jeff
08-22-2008 Over year old.
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Ducati996
Heliman
Location: Apalachin, NY-USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Phoenix on IMac runnign Leopard

Hello Gliderguy:

I just ordered Phoenix today and I was planning on running it on my IMac using Parallels. Could you please elaborate a little about Bootcamp? What do I need to do to get it going?

Thanks in advance for the help

G
08-22-2008 Over year old.
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Jesse Kavros
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, California

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		buster1- yes you can download and it should work just follow all the steps.

Ducati996- Bootcamp is the best way to run windows on your mac its so realiable(to me atleast), and i have had no problems with it, only thing you would need would be a copy of Windows XP w/ service pack 2, or Vista you preference. And you will have to partition your hard drive to as much as you would like but if you can do 32GB and above for the partition(has something to do with format like NTSc and FAT32). But yeah thats just the way I would do it.
08-23-2008 Over year old.
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THX1138
Elite Veteran
Location: Plainfield, IN

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I am interested to know how this is working for people.

Lou

Stupid deer.
08-23-2008 Over year old.
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bilbo
Veteran
Location: Boston, MA - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
I am interested to know how this is working for people.

Which "this" do you mean, Boot Camp or Parallels?

Boot Camp works great for running Windows sims on a Mac, for myself and everyone I've spoken to or read about on forums. Boot Camp is just a boot loader which lets Macs boot into other operating systems, and MS Windows in particular. You will need to own a copy of Windows XP or Vista. Once you reboot your Mac into Windows, it will function just like a PC, and will run any Windows program whose hardware requirements are within your Mac's specifications at full speed. Phoenix will run great at full quality settings on all Intel Macs except for MacBooks and Mac Minis, which have lesser video cards and will require you to turn down some of the quality settings.

Parallels is virtualization software which lets you run Windows without having to reboot your computer, so you can run Windows and OS X programs side by side. The downside of it is it runs Windows in a virtual machine, so Windows programs which make a lot of demands on the hardware, including graphics intensive programs like a flight simulator, will run much slower if at all.
08-24-2008 Over year old.
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davebNZ
Heliman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi All,

Good news to report as I'm Using VMware v1.1.3 that supports direct X v9, all on a Mac Pro Quad 2.66. VMWare will only use two processors though (perhaps more with v2), using XP with all the service packs etc installed.

Both Phoenix and Reflex run fine :-) Cannot be bothered with Boot camp, no need to reboot a system already running well ;-)

Check in the set up / preferences for Parallels for settings that configure 3D support etc, I know in VMWare I had the choose this as an option. Also allocate as much memory to the virtual PC you can spare (or at least as much you would a normal PC).

Cheers

David
08-24-2008 Over year old.
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bilbo
Veteran
Location: Boston, MA - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		That's awesome news davebNZ! I will have to try the demo version of VMware Fusion 1.1.3 and see how it works for me on my MacBook Pro.

I know that the current version of Parallels only claims partial support of DirectX 8, and doesn't claim any support for DirectX 9. Back when I bought Parallels, Fusion wasn't any better in that regard, but it sounds like they've improved.
08-24-2008 Over year old.
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davebNZ
Heliman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		It really is a constant feature one up between Parallels and VMWare. They both have pros and cons and will do as they evolve. I personally went the VMware way purely because at the time it supported more than one CPU and having two dual cores, wanted some performance ;-)

V2 is about to ship and packed full of great new functionality, I'm sure the Parallels guys are not sitting around either, and too will have another version out with great features. Pick one and enjoy :-)

David
08-24-2008 Over year old.
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bilbo
Veteran
Location: Boston, MA - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well, I just installed VMware Fusion 2.0 Beta 2 on my MacBook Pro, which has 2 GB RAM, and a 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo CPU.

I am happy to report that Phoenix actually runs and is usable under Fusion.

I am unhappy to report that it runs at only 25-30 FPS, even with all the graphics quality settings turned all the way down. 25 FPS is barely usable in my opinion. Also, while the sceneries render just fine, the aircraft are all displayed with messed up colors, so they look like they're covered in swirly rainbow colors. This could be a problem with the 2.0 beta though. I'll have to try 1.1.3 and see if it has similar problems with colors.

I've been using VMware for almost 10 years now to run Windows from in Linux, and Parallels for the last year to run Windows on my Mac. So I'm pretty excited to see a graphics intensive program like Phoenix run at all under a virtual machine. However I'd have to still say that currently Boot Camp is the only way to get full quality performance from graphics intensive Windows programs on a Mac, unless perhaps you have a very high end computer, like davebNZ's Mac Pro Quad 2.66.

davebNZ, I'm curious to know what FPS you get from Phoenix under VMware on your Mac Pro. You can see this by going to the View menu in Phoenix, and selecting the Show FPS Counter menu item. It will then show the current FPS in the upper left corner. Thanks.
08-25-2008 Over year old.
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davebNZ
Heliman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Not sure how high end this machine is, two years old now ;-) The new ones are even better.

Any way, fluctuates in frame rate from 28fps to 46fps sitting around 36fps most of the time. The machine was around 50% idle, with my Radio tuner, Mail, web browser all running in the background. At one stage time machine kicked in and 627mb got backed up, had no noticeable effect on the flight in progress :-)

Display settings with in Phoenix are 1680x1050 (nearly HD TV BTW), Graphics Quality High. Memory for the PC I imagine plays a large part, I have my 'PC' with 2GB memory at the moment. The Mac has 7GB in total.

All good :-)
08-27-2008 Over year old.
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davebNZ
Heliman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
08-27-2008 Over year old.
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davebNZ
Heliman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		screen grab showing the details with frame rate, CPU use etc.

I would think one of the later iMacs (they are now two core processors) with 4GB memory (very cheap) and the ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO graphics processor with 256MB would do just fine.

Anyone running one of these?
08-27-2008 Over year old.
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Jesse Kavros
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, California

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		davebNZ, I'm running that exact set-up, on my iMac.
08-27-2008 Over year old.
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bilbo
Veteran
Location: Boston, MA - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
Not sure how high end this machine is, two years old now ;-) The new ones are even better.

Any way, fluctuates in frame rate from 28fps to 46fps sitting around 36fps most of the time.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I was expecting. Your machine is a bit faster than my MacBook Pro, so I'd expect you to get better performance, but not hugely different.

I think our definitions of "runs fine" are a little different, that's all. To me, a game running anywhere under 30 FPS looks so choppy that it's not very fun to play, especially when just rebooting into Windows gives so much better performance. 35 FPS is still really marginal, though I suppose if I could get that on my computer I'd use it that way sometimes rather than reboot into Windows if I just wanted to use the sim for a few minutes to try something. But the animation doesn't really look smooth to me until the FPS is up in the 50s at least.

So for me at least, running Phoenix under VMware still isn't a good alternative, but it is exciting to see that it works at all now. With the right combination of faster computers and more improvements in the virtual machine software, we may yet be able to run Windows sims under OS X and get good performance.
08-27-2008 Over year old.
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Computer Flight Simulators > phoenix running on Mac
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