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E-flite . Fast Lad Performance . Ace Hobby

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Spectra Vs. Predator - Another Perspective
 
 
Excalibur
Key Veteran
Location: Destination: Earth

Finally got started on the Spectra-G build tonight, and I am going to attempt to document the process from box to hover, as compared to the Predator Gasser I built and flew for the past few years. I know there are a couple of other threads going on regarding this topic, but I figure the more people contribute, the more accurate the body of work will be. So here goes. . .

First snag: No printed manual. After looking at the PDF files supplied with the kit (and online), it was obvious that I would need to print out the instruction manual since I don't have a computer in my workshop. Problem is, there are three separate sections to it; the written instructions, the drawings, and the users guide. Instead of printing all three out and have them scattered around my workbench, I combined all of them in Adobe Acrobat and took it in to my local Kinko's to have it printed and bound:



I set it up with double-sided printing so that all of the written instructions are on the left-hand side, and all the assembly diagrams are on the right-hand side. If the instructions continue on to the next page, I simply duplicated the diagram on the next page to keep things in sync. In the back of the manual I included the users guide. Slick - one manual, all information, $17 bucks. I do wish that Minair would have provided the printed manual like Century does with the Predator. Such is life.

Second snag: Wrong instructions for the Tempest head. Apparently, Minair upgraded the Tempest head but failed to properly document it in the manual or assembly diagrams. There was actually a separate "printed" mini-manual for the Tempest head included in the box, but even this one was wrong. The new head is a machined single piece, with a full flybar cage requiring assembly instead of the "L" arms as shown in the manual. Here's the kicker: there was a separate, single sheet folded up in the parts bag that contained the flybar cage parts that was a diagram of how the new flybar section goes together, but NO written instructions or reference to this critical piece of information in the manual!

Now, building from the diagram isn't difficult, however, the diagram made reference to an "Existing control rod" link that has to be built into the assembly. No reference to the correct part number was made, forcing you to dig through the rest of the manual near the back to figure out which one of three types of links you need to use in the assembly. AAAARRRRRRHHHHGGGGGGG! This was my first introduction to the Spectr-G build, and was not expected.

Ok, 'nough bitchin', the head and parts are truly beautifully machined and all metal, so that is really cool. This head will be a work of art when finished, if I don't tear out any more of my receding hairline.

Score:

Instruction manual - Point: Predator
Machined head parts - Point: Spectra

Hopefully more to come. . .

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
07-03-2008 Over year old.
 
 
Eyefly
Veteran
Location: Charlotte, NC

I am in the same boat and evidently, the instruction manual is a bit of a let down for many guys here. I just put the upper frame together last evening and it left a lot to be desired. I cant believe I spent so much time doing something so little. I still have a few small screws left over and I cant figure out where in the world they go.
07-03-2008 Over year old.
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

You don't really need to print out the user's guide, it's pretty basic stuff, a quick read on the computer should be fine.

What I find funny about the manual thing is that there was a poll on MA's site a while back about the manuals, and IIRC, the overwhelming majority said that they wanted a printed manual, as well as having a PDF available, yet they STILL don't give you a manual. I also think it's BS that I had to print out the manual for a kit I spent $1100 on. But at least it's a good manual, my build went very smoothly following it.

Nick Crego
07-03-2008 Over year old.
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Your points guys are well taken

I did pass this info on to Minair but like everything else things cost money and take time to redo sometimes its easier to put an addendum than redo the whole thing. But I totally understand where you're coming from and passed on your concerns.

The next "snag" you'll see Excaliber is the front canopy studs have been replaced from hex to round cylinders style. I think after that it pretty much smooth sailing according to the other guys that built the kit recently ahead of you.

I printed the manual at my office (thanks office!) on a laser printer nothing fancy to do my build. Once built, you never have to refer to it, at least not me, as I remember how things are put together. Its nice to have a spiral bound manual I agree, but maybe not necessary as you probably won't be referring to it much.

Anyway, another point to Minair is they made the decision to include a CD and not a printed manual, and they went and made probably a 1000 cds to include with the kits. Little things change here and there as they improve/update the kit, but they still have 500 cds for example...what are they going to do with them? Better use them up than let them go to waste. I *think* this is where they are coming from.

Anyways, as soon as the heli is together you'll forget all about these little "woes" and start loving it, trust me on that one!!

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G29 Big Bore Hanson, 2255+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 920+ flights
True Facts
07-03-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
Little things change here and there as they improve/update the kit, but they still have 500 cds for example...what are they going to do with them?

obvious suggestion is bin them and burn a new shorter run... but quite apart from the included CD it would be nice if they updated their web-based manual and at least with the included CD made the point that an update might be available - it's what most modern software does and no reason why the manual should take a different approach...

Another trivial improvement (applies to the predator too) would be to offer the build guide specific for the variation being built. MinAir do for extreme/tempest head ... but it's little sweat to have an additional submenu for front or backwards engine and just print the relevent subset.

Lastly, those of us with older eyes would appreciate the diagrams being one per page landscape rather than paired portrait.....

(the 47" lcd is too heavy to move into the build room)

pgk
07-03-2008 Over year old.
 
 
Brunobl
Key Veteran
Location: Pomerode, SC, Brazil - 26 40S 49 11W

Xcal,

Quote 
No printed manual. After looking at the PDF files supplied with the kit (and online), it was obvious that I would need to print out the instruction manual since I don't have a computer in my workshop. Problem is, there are three separate sections to it; the written instructions, the drawings, and the users guide. Instead of printing all three out and have them scattered around my workbench, I combined all of them in Adobe Acrobat and took it in to my local Kinko's to have it printed and bound

Great job with the manual!

I did something similar. I wanted a parts catalog, more or less in the lines of those used in full-size aircraft. They usually show an exploded view, followed by the relevant parts list of that view. Then, another exploded view, so on.

So, after some cutting & pasting, I have an Illustrated Parts Catalog for the Spectra. No more fiddling through two different manuals to locate a part number. The instruction Manual & Drawing manual have their uses, but IMO once the heli is completed a parts catalog is the useful thing to have.


...Bruno.
Spectra G sipping Avgas 100LL, Jewel generator
T-Rex450SE V2
DX7
07-05-2008 Over year old.
 
 
Excalibur
Key Veteran
Location: Destination: Earth

Ok, finally got downstairs tonight to work on the bird. I really didn't get much done on the head (first post), but completed the head assembly tonight with little problem.

It's a little tricky keeping track of which shims, o-rings, and spacers go where, but goes together fairly easily. Oh BTW Raja, good call on using a heat gun to get parts to slide onto the spindle. A little heat made stubborn assemblies slide on easily (including the blade grips). For you guys getting ready to build a Spectra, this is probably the best tip to assembling the rotor head or other parts that have a tight slip fit.

Speaking of blade grips, I LOVE the way these go together. Solid metal with solid metal control arms that slips over the stack of bearings and spacers to protect everything. The flybar cage went together easily on the head and is very strong and solid. The only thing that snagged me again here had to do with the difference in parts between the Tempest and standard head. In this case, there are very tiny set screws that are installed to lock the mixer ball links in place on the flybar assembly. Minair provided an accessory bag with supposedly all the hex wrenches needed for assembly, however, there is no tiny-ass hex wrench to tighten these screws, so I'll need to pick one up I guess.



All-in-all, this head assembly is mechanical poetry. This head inspires confidence that it will hold together through whatever a pilot throws at it. Next step: Side frames. . .

Xcal

BTW, does anybody know how I can add pics to MyFastPhoto and only post selected pics? While the thread is running I want to keep all pics included in the threads but don't want to duplicate them. Any advice would be greatly appreciated - thanks.




Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
07-07-2008 Over year old.
 
 
jschenck
rrProfessor
Location: La Vista, NE.

Quote 
how I can add pics to MyFastPhoto and only post selected pics?

Before starting the post look at the top of yor RR page, there should be a box showing your current Fast Photo selection. Click on the X to get rid of it. The pictures are still in your fast photo but they are not "selected". Now you can create the post you want and add more photo's as you want.
If you want to repost a previous photo uploaded to your fast photo then click on the "MyFastPhoto" link while composing the post. You can select from there. Make sure the "add photo cache" option is selected and preview the post before submitting it.

Aslo you can edit the post once it's submitted - to remove the photo reference just delete the [img] tags with the content bracked by them.

.. P-gas, T700, V50c/u, R50T, T4/250 and a Cricket ..
07-07-2008 Over year old.
 
 
DON SEAY
Heliman
Location: INDY home of the 500

Do a search for John Garst Spectra G build - 2 videos from start to finish. I think you might like it. Both are 58 min. long.

Good luck

Jet A is number #1
07-08-2008 Over year old.
 
 
Excalibur
Key Veteran
Location: Destination: Earth

Thanks for the info guys - I'll try it.

Tonight was the left-side frame assembly. Not too much trouble here, other than the low res images on the assembly drawings. With a little careful study, it's fairly easy to figure out where everything goes. One thing I found helpful is to refer to the finished assembly drawing of the left-side frame without all the part numbers and lines on it. This helps you clearly see where all the parts are positioned. It's interesting to note that the Predator frames are assembled with the identical type of socket head screws used on the Spectra, except that each one is installed with a black washer underneath the head where it contacts the frame. Why one manufacturer decided it was necessary and another one did not is anyone's guess.

One thing I discovered on the frame is a missing PEM nut on one of the holes used to mount one of the servos. Since these are pressed-in I don't know if it just fell out or they didn't install it. Looks like I will have to place a call to Minair again. I say "again" because I had to call them today to have them ship two short ball links that were missing when I put the rotorhead mixer together. These are P/N: 0109, and had been substituted with entirely wrong ball links instead. Minair acknowledged that they have seen numerous kits go out with the wrong links and are working to correct the problem. They are shipping me a pair immediately, so no problem there.

At this point it's kind of a toss up between the assembly of the Predator frames versus the Spectra frames. We'll see how it goes as I mate the two together and install the engine and clutch assembly.

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
07-08-2008 Over year old.
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

If you get the nut

You can just hand press it into the frames. A screw will pull it in to there it will sit nicely.

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G29 Big Bore Hanson, 2255+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 920+ flights
True Facts
07-08-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Excalibur
Key Veteran
Location: Destination: Earth

Ordered the spare PEM nut today from Minair, should see this with the short ball links in a few days.

One other question Raja: Did you ever pack all of the bearings on your Spectra with grease? I have one of those cool "greaser" tools that forces grease into and through the bearings. I did this on all of the bearings on my PGasser, but am just curious about what you did on the Spectra. How 'bout it - anybody else pack there bearings on the Spectra?

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
07-09-2008 Over year old.
 
 
Forced_Inductio
Senior Heliman
Location: Camrose, AB

i packed as many as were practical. grip bearings (tail and main), main bearings, ect. i didnt bother with the little ones on control arms or anyhting. only the ones that werent a b**** to get at.

I have the greaer too, i love it. a handy little tool
07-09-2008 Over year old.
 
 
Avi
Heliman
Location: Israel

Could you post the manual that you created? Perhaps it would be beneficial to others...
07-09-2008 Over year old.
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Bearings packing

No, I've never packed any of my bearings with grease, and mind you, my bearings in the Spectra are original with 503 flights on them except for the ones in the tail box.

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G29 Big Bore Hanson, 2255+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 920+ flights
True Facts
07-09-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Forced_Inductio
Senior Heliman
Location: Camrose, AB

wow raja. 503 flights and the bearings are still good? i guess theyre not like align bearings though
07-09-2008 Over year old.
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

MA stuff lasts forever. I can't remember changing a bearing on an MA heli that wasn't daaged in a crash. As opposed to the 600N where I've changed bearings already even without hitting the dirt.

Nick Crego
07-09-2008 Over year old.
 
 
rstacy
Key Veteran
Location: Rochester, NY

Quote 
MA stuff lasts forever.

Amen to that. We have been flying the snot out of a Stratus and it has needed absolutely nothing in a year of hard flying.



www.kylestacy.com
07-09-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

That's the beauty of it

Gas and go unless you dork it. Incidentally, 503 gasser flights are equal to about 126hrs which is probably closer to 750 nitro flights.

Align is cheap but the quality is not there. But if you're crashing alot, quality doesn't matter as much as you'll replace parts before they wear out. I'm night flying a trex 450 and I've gone through two drivers and about 8 light strings none from crash damage. The light strings look awesome, but they either short out over time, or the connection to the string is flaky right out of the package and you have to redo it, or they fade (especially the orange) over time and develop blemishes. I wish the quality of those is better, I did send them back to Align for "evaluation" and "feedback" when I sent back a brand new pair of night blades this week that one battery in a blade doesn't hold a charge for more than 1 flight. Will see how customer service pans out and what they will do about it. If nothing else I just wanted them to know the light string quality is poor.

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G29 Big Bore Hanson, 2255+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 920+ flights
True Facts
07-09-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
No, I've never packed any of my bearings with grease,

Raja, are the bearings in the Spectra sealed. They are not sealed in Predator and the lower mast bearing and thrust bearing in my heli sucks in a lot of dirt. I was trying to think of a way to use felt washers to prevent the contamination.

Ace
What could be more fun?
07-09-2008 Over year old.
 
 
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Spectra Vs. Predator - Another Perspective
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