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EDGE Rotorblades . ReadyHeli . Power Helis

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Spectra - After the build
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Quote 
Also aware that it used to be necessary to set such an offset in rate mode when planning on flying rate mode..but for HH use this shouldn't be necessary.. so long as the gyro is given a direction to hold it should hold it.. not require constant rt rudder applied to stay straight...

While it is true that a heading hold gyro will work even if you don't have an offset, they work MUCH better if set up so they are neutral in a hover by setting it up in rate mode. Just hovering and flying around there's not a huge difference, but once you move to backwards flight and aerobatics, it's pretty significant. Most gyros instruct you to set them up that way in the manual, of course, most people don't follow those manuals, but if they did, the difference in performance is there.

Nick Crego
07-19-2008 Over year old.
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j.8
Veteran
Location: Denmark

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Hi
"Mine is the closed tailbox and when setup with the pitch arm centred under the mounting lever as you show then the blades are parallel to the boom."

I use to have a closed tailgearbox, and I just found a
picture from when it was in use, and it seems to me that
the blades are angled, but the picture is not taken at
the best angle, I only changed to a open for easyer
maintenence, and after other spectra owners told they
used them aswell (I have read about the old version,
breaking of the shaft)
BTW my tailblads are close to 8 deg when hovering

Regards Bo

07-19-2008 Over year old.
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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
While it is true that a heading hold gyro will work even if you don't have an offset, they work MUCH better if set up so they are neutral in a hover by setting it up in rate mode.

I'm happy to accept that statement..but it remains that my setup isn't holding the tail without rudder applied <sigh>

And it's been blowing so hard here that I haven't dared try messing about in rate mode... and I haven't got this engine tuned in yet either (weather and tail issues but getting there.. happy with low needle so far)

Quote 
I use to have a closed tailgearbox, and I just found a
picture from when it was in use, and it seems to me that
the blades are angled, but the picture is not taken at
the best angle, I only changed to a open for easyer
maintenence, and after other spectra owners told they
used them aswell (I have read about the old version,
breaking of the shaft)
BTW my tailblads are close to 8 deg when hovering

If I don't see a cause when I re-setup (yet again) - time and good weather being my problems - was 35+mph gusts today.. then might just try setting my neutral point to about 8deg and see if helps.

I thought MinAir had a problem with their open box on the gassers? But also agree that it's harder to be comfortable with it's gear meshing when you can't see it and have to dissassemble the factory default

pgk
07-19-2008 Over year old.
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j.8
Veteran
Location: Denmark

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"I thought MinAir had a problem with their open box on the gassers?"

They have had problems, with the shaft breaking, and when I send them a mail asking if it was safe to use open gearbox on a gasser, they said that they had not testet the new version of the tail shaft, on a gasser yet, so it would be on my own risk
On the bag for the opengearbox it says for "nitro and electric only"
Then I PM other Spectra pilots that I knew where using them,
and non of the ones I asked had any problems, so I took the
chance.
And yes the maintenence is very easy, I just keep the gear
clean with a tooth brush

Regards
07-19-2008 Over year old.
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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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Quote 
And yes the maintenence is very easy, I just keep the gear
clean with a tooth brush

Thanks,

pgk
07-19-2008 Over year old.
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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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Finally getting somewhere

Despite winds and gusts to 35mph I had a good 3-hour session with a mate and messed about with the tune: getting a really good sound and power on the low needle and serious power on the climbouts with a nice sound.. but still a bit ragged on the transition and in a hover.

My temp gun seems totally unreliable so using ears and plug.

Question1 Plug colour

How long at higher power (or indeed at a constant power) to see a reliable indication by change of plug colour. Or to word this another way.. if I chuck it about a bit so it's using the high needle how long until the plug colour changes and how short a time back at hover and landing before that new colour is masked by low needle use?

Tail control

I cannot get this tail anywhere as solid as it should be with a 611. As per previous posts if i have the pitch arm aligned under the bracket then my tail blades parallel the boom. I messed about with the tail linkage in Normal mode and got it roughly holding..that certainly moves that pitch arm from under the bracket.. and there really is no binding anywhere, the mechanics to this tail have been fiddled with to death now and are like silk. I've even moved the 2.4g aerial away from the amplifier wires, we're on zeal tape. I took advice here (always do ) with gain at 37% but tried it back at higher gains to 65% as experiment with some marginal improvement.

I have 13mm out on the tail servo arm.

Question2

Any other ideas?
Governor

I had planned to fit that when the jewel arrived and I was run in and tuned. Jewel appears to be somewhere in a global postal system with no UK postal service knowledge of it getting into their hands <sigh>.. perhaps it'll be found on a banana boat somewhere and get to me one day..

I digress..Local help variable with taching.

Question3

Presumably if I set up a governor and switch in/out then I can assess change in headspeed and know if over/under that target on the tx?

pgk
07-20-2008 Over year old.
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j.8
Veteran
Location: Denmark

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Hi

1) I would say 1/4-1/2 tank ( I can see you use 16 oz.dubro)
A motor cycle mecanic once told me, that they check
the plug at full rpm and then kill/turn of the engien,
then the same thing is done at half rpm/kill engien,
same thing at idle ( that`s the way he did it )
But in a heli we have to check after type of flying style,
some fly scale like, others aerobatic(low/high headspeed).
So if you check acording to your flying style, you`ll be fine,
If you can kill your engien/hovering and then auto,
that would be good,
because when ideling a plug can change collour fast.
Just run your engien as rich as possible,
the more fuel the more power.
That`s why I tune my high needle first, by doing full
power/stick clime outs, I keep opening the high till the
engien looses power, and then close it in very small steps
till it gets power again, and then I ajust the low needle
for a smoot transsion. Then you can ajust the throttle curve
for idel.( But follow the engien builders instruction for
break in first, before tuning for power )

2) what about the horizontal fin when you look at it,
is it a slim line or is it blury (vibrating) If it is
vibrating ,that can cause a HH gyro to drift.
Cause for vibration on the horizontal fin can be,
engien tuning, clutch, clutch bell out of ballance,
strange torqe tube , fan out of ballance, or it needs
to be dail indicated, as long as the tail is not going
up and down, you can rule out tail rotor ballance.
I don`t know if 35 mph wind are the ideal condition,
to ajust the gyro in normal mode, your are a hard man

When I was waiting for my jewel generator, the tracking #
only worked in the U.S, as soo it left U.S somthing happend and track was lost, but never the less, the jewel arrived.

Regards Bo
07-20-2008 Over year old.
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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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Quote 
If you can kill your engien/hovering and then auto,
that would be good,
because when ideling a plug can change collour fast.

..Sadly not confident enough to do a deliberate auto..but thanks for confirming what I thought about plug change speeds..

Quote 
what about the horizontal fin when you look at it,
is it a slim line or is it blury (vibrating) If it is
vibrating ,that can cause a HH gyro to drift.

Before I started getting the tune better I was seeing a vibration on the main shaft in ahover..but as I tuned in better that stopped and there isn't any terribly obvious fin vibration and no tail up-down

Quote 
I don`t know if 35 mph wind are the ideal condition,
to ajust the gyro in normal mode, your are a hard man

Not hard - just desperate to play with this heli but that's why nothing clever happened (like actually flying around) . It was weather that wanted 200feet under the heli but I'm not confident enough with the handling on this heli and it's tail to go for it yet. It was hard work trying to stay ahead of heli in those conditions with my ability..it sat pretty steady (not much bouncing) but still prone to swinging unexpectadly

Quote 
When I was waiting for my jewel generator, the tracking #
only worked in the U.S, as soo it left U.S somthing happend and track was lost, but never the less, the jewel arrived.

That's what I hope too.. but usually get info that left US even if not info that arrived UK. With luck it'll just appear in the next few days. I also have a missing parcel of clunks and another missing/lost order from heli-world - who dont answer my emails : so not a good month!

pgk
07-20-2008 Over year old.
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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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I have 13mm out on the tail servo arm.

Anyone got a suggestion of optimum distance here with the spectra and 611 with it's servo?

pgk
07-21-2008 Over year old.
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rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Servo arm distance.

I'm using the BIG futaba black wheel on mine and the ball link is in the outermost hole on that wheel. Well really there is only holes on the edges, its in one that lines up vertically with the rudder stick centered gyro in normal mode.

Look at my gallery to see this wheel. Suggest you use the same.

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G29 Big Bore Hanson, 2255+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 920+ flights
True Facts
07-21-2008 Over year old.
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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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Suggest you use the same.

..got plenty, will do..

(and thanks for the last PM.. appreciated)

pgk
07-21-2008 Over year old.
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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Hi Pgk
Bad news about the parcels going astray.

Watch the high gain settings, I'm not sure how true this is but I was told if you set the 601 and 611 gain above 37% you will wipe the servo out in a very short time.
07-21-2008 Over year old.
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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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Quote 
Bad news about the parcels going astray.

Weird too... hopefully somewhere in 'the system'

Quote 
Watch the high gain settings, I'm not sure how true this is but I was told if you set the 601 and 611 gain above 37% you will wipe the servo out in a very short time.

Read that too.. but needed to try. Larger servo wheel so back to basics (again)

pgk
07-21-2008 Over year old.
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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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Better

Tail holding a lot beter with the larger wheel..still not quite as solid as I'd like but 'well' flyable.

Now the Tune - more advice please

I'm about 8-10 tanks worth of mineral oil 30:1 through.

Now the tail is better it was less scarey trying to fly this thinga nd fiddle with it.

The low needle is about 2 driver widths rich of the lean point it started to show signs of cutting out in at low throttle and I'm pretty happy with the sound it does at 'fast idle'.

The high needle I've got leaned out to about 1 and a quarter at the moment.. quite a lot of power in a climb and a rich throaty sound but just slow/moderate forward flight sounds horrible.. sounds like a big bike idling rough at the lights. Plug colour perhaps slightly darker then my idea of perfect.

Modest speed circuits aren't a confidence thing like this

At the moment I've got the throttle servo buzzing at throttle cut but the engine doesn't cut.. It will cut with closed stock air filter. Possible a leak around the butterfly??

This link to a short phone vid of me trying the engine out .. no flying skill to see .. but appreciate anyone's comment on the engine notes. Still rich on the high?

Best assistance wth taching claims 1790 in the hover with this ragged engine tone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIlRrPR1w78

pgk
07-22-2008 Over year old.
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AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

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YOur right it sounds terrible. Are you using a governor or curves? The headspeed seems to be wondering all over the place. When you took off did you punch it? The headspeed should spool up and stabolize then with further collective it should lift off without an increase or decrease in RPM.

Ace
What could be more fun?
07-22-2008 Over year old.
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pgkevet
Key Veteran
Location: surrey UK

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Quote 
YOur right it sounds terrible. Are you using a governor or curves? The headspeed seems to be wondering all over the place. When you took off did you punch it? The headspeed should spool up and stabolize then with further collective it should lift off without an increase or decrease in RPM.

On curves at the moment. Normal curve 0,21,24,28,100 and pitch 30,33,50,75,100 . lifts off around 3/4 stick (which is how I fly my others)

To my poor understanding it's unhappy at the transition point and hovers there? But if I up throttle then the headspeed will be way high.

As you say, the Predator just lifted off almost casually.

I didn't punch this up.. just a bit extra to make sure the engine would keep going. There are some mild power climbs on that vid.

In Idle up throttle 100, 30, 26, 30, 100 if I pull it down from a 100feet with goodly negative it almost cuts out going through the lower throttle section..

Lots of tarry oil specks coming out of the exhaust. It's got to be time to go to synthetic 40:1 I'd guess and clean out the cylinder a bit since most of the running so far has been lower throttles due to the unstable issues I had....

pgk
07-22-2008 Over year old.
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rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

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If you ask me

Your headspeed is WAY too slow! It sounds more like 1400 rpm to me but its hard to judge 100% by not being there. I find it hard to believe its singing along at 1790 as the old timer with the tach claims. It sounds like you're flying around with spoolup rpms...

NO TAIL is going to work properly with:

a) slow rpms and worse
b) variable headspeed

If you have a governor trust it and use it to set your throttle curves and get the right rpms going like I've said how to in other posts - do a search. When you use a governor, you won't get the variable headspeed that you show here.

Man I wish I was there. 2 hours with me and it will be perfect!

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G29 Big Bore Hanson, 2255+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 920+ flights
True Facts
07-23-2008 Over year old.
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Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

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I agree with Raja, the head is way too slow. Check this video I made of mine, I think we're running the same engine and same exhaust (231 and century V3). Mine is solid at 1850RPM, and from the videos, my head is spinning WAY faster than yours.


PGKEVET'S




EURY'S



Nick Crego
07-23-2008 Over year old.
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rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Watch both videos closely

pgkevet:

You're flying with 4 strobing blades as seen just after takeoff.

Eury:

Just before liftoff but before full head speed, Eury's machine reaches the 4 strobing blade speed.

I vote that pgkevet is flying at the same rpms that Eury is spinning on the ground before engaging idle up and taking off.

pgkevet:

If you fly again and film it, you should see two stopped blades if you're running 1800 rpms.

-=>Raja.

1005 Gasser, G29 Big Bore Hanson, 2255+ flights
Spectra-g, G26 3DMax, 920+ flights
True Facts
07-23-2008 Over year old.
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Toadster25
Veteran
Location: Iowa

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When you do your hard climes it sounds like the engine speeds up and if your engine has the power to increase the head speed when your climing then the head speed almost has to be low. I know it also depends on what your max positive pitch is at too but normally you would want to hear a slight decrease in rpm when your at your max pitch and 100% throttle. That way you know your using all the power your engine can give you.
07-23-2008 Over year old.
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Spectra - After the build
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