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T-REX 500
6S vs 5S TREX 500
busyflyin

Veteran

Owosso, MI USA

I don't know my rectum from a rotor blade when it comes to e helis. I have to make a decision about batteries; I'm a very mild 3D flyer and looking for a good combination between power and flight time, and I have a Triton charger that will only charge up to a 5 cell battery. What are the advantages of 6s vs 5s and what are your recommendations and why? Thanks.

06-16-2008 Over year old.
ArtK

Veteran

Temecula, Ca

5s is fine. A bit less efficient in the battery but for mild flying it wll be OK.

I recommend getting a 4000 mah battery since you are a mild 3d pilot and not stick banging. You may have to cut the frames a bit to make it fit but it is a really easy mod with a dremel. This battery is a great choice because it is very affordable and will give you 6-8 minutes of flight depending on how you fly. I would use a 16T pinion with the stock motor.

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product...oducts_id/16870

06-16-2008 Over year old.
MAXHSHV

Key Veteran

,mn usa

Advantages of 6s are longer flight times,more power,cooler motor and esc, witch means you can run back to back.

Don't waste money on 5s, you'll just wish you had gone 6s in about 2 flight's.
as for chargers, i have 2 tritons and they are an exalent charger but for 129.99 the new 610 thunder power charger is awesome, 10 times the charger that triton is.and it comes with the balencer.and will do up to 6s.

06-16-2008 Over year old.
ArtK

Veteran

Temecula, Ca

I fly 8s so your preaching to the.... but 5s will work fine.

Check out trextuning. They just did a review on 5s setups.

06-16-2008 Over year old.
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

15T is plenty for 5s, thats what JK uses! I would even try 14T for even longer flight times. Having said that 6s with 12T would give around the same flight times and the 6s packs are cheaper!

60% of the time, it works every time!

06-16-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
raptorheli2

Elite Veteran

rip off britain and no changing it

5s setup with 4200 revo packs are good for 7 mins plus with a 16t pinion. heli is superb with that combo and has more power than a 6s setup on 13t that everyone uses. (i've flown about 20 combos in my own 500)

i run 8s now myself but i would only change to a scorpion, revo 4200 5s setup if i was going back.

cheers


www.waterfoothelis.com

06-16-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
busyflyin

Veteran

Owosso, MI USA

AMain batteries on special for $87.99!!! 3 on order today! Thanks for the lead on that one ArtK. As you can all see there is a split in recommendations. I've been told by a number of people that JK uses the 5S setup, and I don't have to buy a new charger for 5S. Thanks all for your input.

06-16-2008 Over year old.
MAXHSHV

Key Veteran

,mn usa

any body heard how those batteries hold up.

I have a couple 10s helis that could use some more packs , but i don't what to buy batteries that can't take some abuse.

I have a buddy that run's kong batteries and they actully performe better then my flight power batteries.so the saying you get what you pay for is'nt always true.

06-17-2008 Over year old.
busyflyin

Veteran

Owosso, MI USA

If you are talking about the A Main batteries, I really quizzed them on the warranty before I bought. The Protek is A Main's house brand and the guy I spoke with told me that they have a 50% crash damage coverage and they are good about standing behind the product. I asked him if they had any problems with returned batteries and he said "a few but they are really customer problems". I manage warranty where I work and I can honestly say that most of our wty is customer error. Also, I don't think A Main would jeopardize their name by not standing behind their own brand. The internet would trash them. In the end, who knows, but I am taking the risk for the price.

06-17-2008 Over year old.
ArtK

Veteran

Temecula, Ca

5s

My friend Aaron flys them on his protos and likes them.

06-18-2008 Over year old.
ckoelliker

Elite Veteran

St. Simons, GA

I have flown the 5s 3300 batteries, and the 6s 2600 batteries. The 6s does have more power, but the 5s has good power. It still has plenty of punch, was hard to bog, and will give you longer flight times. The 6s 2600 pack has less flight time, but gobs of power.

06-18-2008 Over year old.
ArtK

Veteran

Temecula, Ca

4000 mah

At 4000 mahs you will be able to hold the power very well. Tons of extra capacity. Basically your C rating gives you more amps. 20c at 4000= 80 amps. 20 c at 3300= 66 amps. However higher voltage uses less amps so it washes out. I do a simple ratio to compare. Just multiply the mah by the cells. So 5cell x 4K mah = 20 (485grams) 6cell x 3.3K mah = 19.8 I run 8s 2200 = 17.6 (430 grams) The bigger the number the more longer flight times and greater power. I think ratios between 17.6 and 22 are where you want to be for this helicopter. Ratios that are higher are of course heavier setups.

When you have up to 80amps to play with you are not going to have any problem with power delivery. Your big disadvantage is just added weight of being toward that 20 number. Weight is a big issue mostly for fast poping manuevers or auto's. Extra power through your batteries will compensate for everything else.

The next issue is your ESC and motor.
With lower volts you will draw higher amps. You will probably average around 27-33 amps in a hover on 5s. You will need an ESC that can handle that comfortably. Maybe one that has a capacity of 55amps. I run a CC30 hv for my setup because I only average 17amps and it has a limit of 30 amps continious.

Next comes the motor. Going lower voltage allows you more options for gear ratio's. 12T is the lowest you can go with this helicopter due to the gear spacing and need to wrap around a 5mm shaft. So going lower voltage gets you into the higher gears. It alows you to run many different motor KV's. With 8s I am limited to 1600kv and below so my choices are fewer.

06-18-2008 Over year old.
busyflyin

Veteran

Owosso, MI USA

ArtK is a genious! So much for me to catch up on with ehelis. Makes my Nitos seem a little simpler! I'm not worried about pop because my flying style doesn't require (or doesn't allow me to understand) to be concerned with the issue. I'll be using the stock ESC that comes with the kit. Will that not be sufficient? I'm going to study up on the data you sent and try to understand more of the detail. Thanks for all of the good data!

06-18-2008 Over year old.
ArtK

Veteran

Temecula, Ca

Tell us how it goes.

06-18-2008 Over year old.
martinic

Key Veteran

NB, Canada

On paper, 5S versus 6S is no different assuming capacity/weight/current are equivalent for the setup. The difference between 5S and 6S is amperage: the motor under 6S will require less current due to the higher voltage. The motor's performance range will play a large role - it may be optimal at 5S or 6S voltages - it depends. Also, the higher current requirements of a 5S setup may mean that the resistance of the wiring could play a role. Your mechanical and radio setup will also factor in, also don't forget your flying style.

All that to say that there is no clear answer. 6S is not better than 5S - you need to compare exact setups and even then all you can say is that one of those setups may be better than the others specific setup.

You need to have a well matched setup (components, settings, flying style) no matter what voltage you fly at.

Guiding principles: know your flying style, keep the weight down, shop around, research what works, and do the math.

Market availability of suitable components is a limiting factor. Manufacturers are developing new products all the time.

If this is too much, go with proven setups.

So, the question is not if 5S is better than 6S, but rather what is the best setup for a certain type of flying and within a certain budget. It's all so individual.

Hopefully we are starting to see a few good proven setups emerge and a couple will start to become most common - that's when we will start to benefit from volumes and good values.

Myself, I'm using 5S MaxAmps 4000mAH packs with the 500L on 15T with a Jazz 80 (~2800 RPM). I've just ordered a Scorpion 1900kv motor to try on 13T. My primary factors were flight time, weight, performance. I fly sport and light 3D. I tried this setup with 13T (~2400 RPM) and it flew fine for my style. I get ~8 minutes with 3200mAH used (<80% - for pack life).

06-18-2008 Over year old.
busyflyin

Veteran

Owosso, MI USA

Whew... that's a ton of info. Can anyone tell me what amp ECS comes standard in the 500?
Edit; I just looked on AMain website and they list a 60 amp ECS. Will that be enough?

06-18-2008 Over year old.
ArtK

Veteran

Temecula, Ca

60 amps should be OK

06-18-2008 Over year old.
busyflyin

Veteran

Owosso, MI USA

Good, I'm tired of spending money on this project! I'm glad I got a good deal on the A Main batteries at $87.99 ea for 4000mah. I should be able to fly for an hour or so on those things

One more edit; I have both a 15T and 16T pinion coming so I can switch up to check for best performance. I'll post my findings. Based on the input from people I've talked to, I expect best performance from the 15T. My understanding is that is what JK is using with his 5cell packs.

06-18-2008 Over year old.
martinic

Key Veteran

NB, Canada

On 5S with the stock 500L using 15T, expect ~2800 RPM at full throttle.

Don't worry, you've got a good setup there and you'll be happy with the performance and flight times.

Sorry for the wordy reply - I was just trying to flesh out the answer to the orignal posting.

06-18-2008 Over year old.
ArtK

Veteran

Temecula, Ca

16T not 15T

3.7 x 5 = 18.5 volts x 1600 kv= 29600 motor rpms

162/15T = 10.8 162/16T= 10.125 162/17T= 9.529

29600/ 10.8= 2740 162/10.125 = 2923 29600/9.529 = 3105

2700/2923 = 92%


I would even consider a 17t or 18T pinion.

2700/3105 = 86% 2400/3105= 77% Better range if you want to govern your RPM from 2400 to 2700 RPM

Castle creations recommends being between 75%-85% of your max rpm.

I agree with that. If you go to trextuning they test 5s with a 16T. I would try a 17T or an 18T and see how temps get. I run 8s with a 1600 kv motor and I am governed down to 65% and it works fantastic. When I demand power I have 35% to give extra.

06-18-2008 Over year old.
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T-REX 500
6S vs 5S TREX 500
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