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Century Radikal - Hawk - 50NX - Predator > Close to a sale!!!
 
 
QuestJinn
Heliman
Location: Virginia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Lift

First, I didn’t dismiss anything that anyone said on here. As a matter of fact, if you read the whole thread, you would see that I addressed everyone’s questions, and thanked everyone for helping me so much. I checked everything to the best of my abilities, and that is comprised of about two months worth. If something was not exactly the way it should have been then that is why. That is also why I took the heli to experts to go completely through. You are right, you are not here, so you, nor anyone else here can see what I am doing, nor how much time I have spent trying to change things on it, even flying in the rain (drizzle) to see if a change worked. In addition, I am not there to see what everyone else is saying to change. I just found out that the bearings in the tail were backwards. I checked them yes, but the rep said to check the smaller and larger bearing positions. Not how to identify which one was smaller. The larger bearing has a smaller channel. I checked the channel not the diameter of the hole. But how would I know that with this being my first heli and no instructions in front of me? You have to understand what I am working with. As far as personal knowledge, not much, and a pre-assembled heil with inherent problems. I am trying to learn to fly and troubleshoot major problems at the same time. How much are you expecting from me? I have not been flying for years, I don’t know all of the components, and I don’t even know the names for everything yet. But I have people expecting to know to what degree everything is supposed to be constructed, to have all of after-market parts, etc. etc. Please! Guys have given me their numbers, I called them, and they walked me through some things. I have read everything everyone has posted. And not in just this forum. I am trying, I never dismissed anything. So to that, yes I took offense. Forgive me if I make some mistakes. But, I AM TRYING!
I appreciate everyone’s help here, even yours. But, I am on a learning curve. All of this will probably benefit me later, but right now, I am frustrated. I sat in the shop the last two days after work talking to the guys as they went through the heli for hours. I know they are tired of me by now! But, I want to learn. If you can't understand that, then so be it.
04-24-2003 Over year old.
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the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		if TT has fixed the Raptor's problems than that's a good thing, and all the better for Raptor owners !!

ATHAM has a good point, "know your heli", keep it long enough so you can learn it's problems and how to set it up so it will fly smoother and smoother,,,
my friends never try new settings, so they will never know if they could get their helis to fly smoother or more powerful..

Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz
04-24-2003 Over year old.
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QuestJinn
Heliman
Location: Virginia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Wasp

Thanks, I want to, and the guys have even made a new profile in my radio for me to try. I am looking to different things that people suggest. Right now, I am leaving the troubleshooting to the experts. I am just trying to learn as they go through the heli.
04-24-2003 Over year old.
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choppengruven
Key Veteran
Location: Flagler County, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Forgive me if I make some mistakes. But, I AM TRYING!
I appreciate everyone’s help here, even yours. But, I am on a learning curve. All of this will probably benefit me later, but right now, I am frustrated. I sat in the shop the last two days after work talking to the guys as they went through the heli for hours. I know they are tired of me by now! But, I want to learn.


Everyone is always learning in this hobby. I did enough wrong on my Caliber30 when I first started out that it should have been a smoldering pile of plastic from getting the setup wrong on the CCPM as I hadn't done that before even though I had built mechanical mix machines before I had flown, but I learned. (OK, big time run on sentence, but you get the picture )

Sometimes when you are typing on a computer you don't get a "feel" for how competent the person on the other end is in their abilities and may ass_u_me that they know more than they might. I've been following this thread from the beginning, and having read your early posts in it, assumed that you knew a bit more than you did (isn't all that uncommon for even a newbie to have some basic heli knowledge), and obviously, so did a few others. I think some of the aggrivation felt on the part of those who have tried to help is there because they know that the design of the tail on that bird is solid. Yes, there can and always be defects in stuff, even when new, but a poor setup can cause a great deal of damage in and of itself.

Rest assured that when you come back for help with your Predator , these same people will be here to help.

As for trying a different line of helis, while that may help you psychologically (its a different heli, I can do it now), it still won't make up for real world experience that you will still need to setup the heli and get it in the air. That learning curve is going to be there whether you start out with a TT, Kyosho, JR Heli or Century.

So far I have a Hawk Sport (only mods are Speed Torpedo Muffler and tail servo) and a Raven and have been impressed enough to order the Predator Max. Needless to say, I continue to be impressed with Century's products....when they are setup right, they just flat out sing!
04-24-2003 Over year old.
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LUNITIC
Senior Heliman
Location: Chesapeake, VA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Wish you could have seen through my eyes

Okay Questginn, I just came back from the shop. I make it over there a few times aweek, but this time I needed bearings for my Fury.

I've been very quick not to criticize, your heli, your setup and whom you purchased the Heli from and that was purely out of respect. At some point I was where you are, in fact everyone here was. I purchased my first heli used and cried like a baby cause I had so many problems with it but the fact was that the Heli was used. I questioned everyone that I came in contact with, when I should have questioned the intergrity of the person that sold me my first heli. If you had bought a used Raptor the same can be said, you're purchasing someone elses problems and you have to ask yourself, why are they selling. That's not to say that the heli is in bad condition or the person whom you purchased yours from is shady and I hope no offense is taken Lamar. The bottom line here is that the bird is used and it had/have some isssues that's not inclined to be associated with the make and model. I'm amazed at that fact that it was able to fly. I'm one of those people that will not defend one product (heli) over the other. I happen to feel like the best learning curve comes from experience. Having said all that to say that I once own a Raptor 50 v1. After chasing slop in that thing and purchasing all the upgrades to get a better bird the thing was still a Raptor....100% hillar. After while I came to realize that I would never get what I wanted out of that bird nor all the money I put into it. I got my Falcon from an idiot that crashed it after sitting back for 5 minutes with no radio inputs, then it rolled into the Funky Chicken Dance of Death. Instead of investigating why, he decided right there in his rage to sell and of course I was more than accommondating, I haven't looked back since. If you're still convenced that the bird is a POS than let me be the first to re-extend the offer and I will take it for the same price you quoted Sean

Dude these are good times and you should be thankful. When I started I had to figure most of this out by myself. Anyone offering advice I had to questioned because of their lack of Heli knowledge. In this age we have RunRyder and the experience of those that have been around awhile. When someone offers you a suggestion it pays to regard what they're saying with the upmost respect, because they might know something you don't. You are also fortunite to have the Guru himself and Norvin offering their time probono, because they rarely have the time for their own birds, especially Eulace. Next time you're over at the shop ask how many projects are on the back burner. Eulace did it for me as well as others in the area, why, because he happens to love the hobby and want to see people get a good start.

Through all this I hope you learned something.

Tim Richburg Chesapeake,VA
04-24-2003 Over year old.
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the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		LUNITIC,,, I have Ace to thank that I fly Century, if they didn't treat me like dirt when my Raptor blew apart on it's third flight, I would have never bought my HawkSEv2, I think I will write Ace a letter and thank them !!


Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz
04-24-2003 Over year old.
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choppengruven
Key Veteran
Location: Flagler County, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Umm, this may sound like a stupid question (wouldn't be my first), but I have reread through this thread.....was this heli used whne Jinn got it? That could go a long way to explaining a lot.
04-24-2003 Over year old.
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QuestJinn
Heliman
Location: Virginia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		As a matter of fact.....

Lunitic, I did. If you would read my post I have been with them most of the time. I talk to them everyday. And I am greatful, to people who understand where I am coming from and what I am going through with it. Lamar didn't just sell it and walk away. And he never said he knew everything. So I don't have to question his integrity, you on the other hand I don't know. And yes, I do have the Guru, and Norvan checking it. So why are you? I get the blow by blow from them, i don't need a repeat here. And it is Questjinn.
04-24-2003 Over year old.
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LUNITIC
Senior Heliman
Location: Chesapeake, VA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hey Quest

Hey man, I didn't want to come off being nasty and I wish you didn't take it that way. Information here on RunRyder is common and not to just dump on any one person. Heli pilots are not like plankers, when one has a problem we all have a problem because helis/parts are common, other than upgrades and paintjobs, we're all the same. So don't feel like we're dumping on you. Like I said I won't defend or criticize one product over the other but if you feel you need too then be ready to defend your position, i.e (raptors vs Century). We all started this post trying to help, I just happen to take a look at your bird before they took a thorough look. Not that I was trying to give you a blow by blow. It's not uncommon that I will do that and when I have the time you can catch me over at the shop, working on someone elses gear. I mentioned that Norvin and Eulace are stapped for time. It's also not uncommon that I will be the one working on your bird, if I have the time and Norvin is busy. I don't make practise of being in the middle but in order for me to get done what I need to over at the shop it pays to throw a little water back into the well. Several people here offered up good advice and I got the impression you just wanted a quick answer. In the beginning of your thread it even sounded as if you thought little of the local help you were getting, and fought the advice of them, this may not have been your intentions but this is what were precieved and likewise we all took offense. Last thought before I end this, I never suggest that the person whom sold you the heli sold you a piece of crap, I know Lamar and he is a good guy but not everyone here on RunRyder can say the same thing and the statements I made here was for everyone and not just you. If you got offended than I apologize.

Tim Richburg Chesapeake,VA
04-24-2003 Over year old.
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Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		QuestJinn,
I am glad your getting some good help. I hope you can get the thing out there and get some QUALITY(read as issue free) time on the heli. It's NEVER any fun to spend day after day or weekend after weekend trying to resolve issues with you first heli! Trust me.....I know how it feels!

What you need is a fuel and fly heli that won't give you very many issues right out of the box. That is what the Raven 50/Falcon is and to see you go thru this was appalling to me. Now that we know it's used and possibly not in top shape make sense as to why you are having problems.

Take a look in my Gallery at my Century helis and you can see what a well maintained and Falcon looks like.

I wish you luck and appologize for offending you. I am sure in speaking for all the guys/gals on this board that fly Century stuff that we are devoted to seeing you succeed. I hope your feelings of being ganged up on are brushed under the rug.

Keep us posted on your progress!
04-24-2003 Over year old.
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QuestJinn
Heliman
Location: Virginia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		It's fixed!

Eulace fixed the problem. They replaced the tail pitch slider with the newly designed one, and the thrust bearings were in the wrong way. He says that the tail is holding solid now. But I need the bearings in the motor replaced. That is being done now. I should be up this weekend.
He said that there were allot of little things wrong that contributed to the problem.

About the post, I understand that some things get taken out of context. But Eulace read the post and knew I didn't mean that they lacked any knowledge. I meant that this heli had some crazy problem that no one could find. Also, I understand that you guys didn't understand my level of knowledge. Most of what I posted here I got from talking to people and reading as it was being discussed. I have the concept of how things are suppose to work because I worked on the Cobra heli in the Army. But everything changes when you scale down something.

And as I said before, I appreciate EVERYONE'S help. But I had problems from the start of this hobby two months ago. So the frustration was to a level that you would not believe. Moreover, when people came to me like I was not trying hard enough, or disreguarded what people said because I was still having problems, it added to my frustration. So if I came off harsly this is why. So I would like to move on from this and get the enjoyment from this hobby that I believe I can. In addition, continue to build the relationships that I started with everyone. So LIFT, LUNITIC thanks for your assistance, your words of reconciliation, and your continued support. I accept and offer the same to you. So let the fun begin (finally)!

Renewed, member of "the Dark Side"
04-25-2003 Over year old.
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oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Upwards and onwards

questjinn (love the name - great name for a newby)

Glad to here you got it all resolved with the heli and with the group).

You will find the heli and the group are both great to be asociated with.

Have a great day

When you have your first good flight, start a NEW thread and let us know.

Phil
04-25-2003 Over year old.
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choppengruven
Key Veteran
Location: Flagler County, FL USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Its not a big deal. I know that after I crashed my forst two flights (with a brand new heli) things were getting pretty hairy for me. Since then, I have not crashed (where is that 2X4?) and I have really enjoyed this hobby. I know it can get frustrating, but just keep pluggin along. That Predatot SE or Predator Max is sitting there waiting for you!
04-25-2003 Over year old.
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QuestJinn
Heliman
Location: Virginia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks Guys!!!


I will post to let you guys know how it flies.
04-25-2003 Over year old.
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the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Jinn,,, I'm happy to hear this !! now the fun begains !!


Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz
04-25-2003 Over year old.
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alwallash
Senior Heliman
Location: Morgan Hill, CA (near San Jose)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Why does tail wag if thrust bearings are backwards?

To Dave Neeves,

Could you please please explain WHY the Falcon SE tail will wag in heading hold (only) if the tail rotor grip thrust bearings are put in backwards? Does it oscillate back and forth inside or something?

What if they are BOTH installed backwards? or just one of the two?

By the way, I believe I had my first taste of helis flying rundder only with you at the Tomcat Air show a couple of years ago.

Thanks so much for getting me hooked into this challenging aspect of RC.

You are an excellent "rep" for Century and it is why I got a Falcon (after my first heli (TSK) crashed due to rudder servo failure!)

Al
05-01-2003 Over year old.
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Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		alwallash,
It's actually pretty simple. In heading hold the gyro is making alot more corrections. What it's trying to do is control a certain heading and that involves crosswinds, torque of the rotor disk, pilot input, ect. Where as in non-heading hold all the gyro has to do is control any sudden yaw changes. Once the yaw change is corrected it re-centers instead of trying to hold the same center like it does in HH.

Now, this is all purely theoretical but the point is there is alot more tail rotor pitch change going on in HH. Because the tail grips don't swivel effectively if you have the thrust bearings reversed that is why it was most likely more noticeable.
05-01-2003 Over year old.
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Dave Neves
Senior Heliman
Location: Fremont, CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Al,
Payton is right. You will see the affect of reversed thrust bearings
more so in heading lock than in normal mode. However you will
have poor tail rotor reponse in both modes. The thrust bearings
are there to eliminate the tension loads on the radial bearings.
Having the thrust bearings in backwards will greatly increase
the "binding affect" associated with these tension loads.
Remember, the larger I.D. race should be closer to the tail rotor
shaft. The smaller I.D. race should be closer to the tail rotor blade.

Good luck

Dave Neves
05-02-2003 Over year old.
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jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		alwallash, I thought these were very interesting questions, and I thought that I give it a shot at answering them.

Why does tail wag if thrust bearings are backwards?

I haven't the faintest clue. Technically speaking, if the thrust BBs are binding, the radial BBs should take over.

Could you please please explain WHY the Falcon SE tail will wag in heading hold (only) if the tail rotor grip thrust bearings are put in backwards?

The incorrect installation of the thrustBB causing heli to fly very bizare-like is not limited to Falcon Helis. ANY heli that uses thrustBBs in the tail will have this kind of problem. I have no clue why it affects the HH only, but not the normal mode. In some cases, neither mode will work.

Does it oscillate back and forth inside or something?

At flight speeds, something ends up binding, thusly not allowing the tail rotor to work properly. What makes it hard to check is, on the ground, the tail will work fine.

What if they are BOTH installed backwards? or just one of the two?

As long as one of them is installed incorrectly, you will run into problems. It's also good to check the thrustBBs after a crash, they are known to break.
05-02-2003 Over year old.
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robi
Heliman
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Possible servo interference

An odd one for sure but I have a FalconSEVII that did this. I eventually found the problem by fluke. When I touched one of my 4721 JR servos once the tail wagged. It seems that this one particular servo was causing some sort of interference to the gyro or gyro servo. When I replaced that one servo it all went back to normal. Mine even did the wag if I hung the heli from the head and tapped the skids lightly. I hope this helps and anyways it's one more possibility since swapping in another gyro and 9253 which I did won't change this problem. I would try swapping one servo at a time until you have eliminated all of them or I understand that Futaba does sell a sheilded connection cord for the gyro which is supposed to eliminate this problem. Let me know if this helps and if not I'll put it out to our heli flyers in my club as we have some real expert diagnostic type guys. Robi
05-03-2003 Over year old.
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Century Radikal - Hawk - 50NX - Predator > Close to a sale!!!
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