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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > T-REX 500 TREX 500 IS BURNING...LITERALLY! HELP ALIGN!!!
 
 
kegerator
Heliman
Location: Washougal, WA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hey Guys -

Today was a sad, disappointing Sunday! For the first time with Align products in my experience, I had a fire!!! I just got done with two flights on my Align 600 10S and then switched to the Align 500. Upon lift-off and ~2 minutes into the flight, I noticed smoke pouring out the back end of the helicopter. As I quickly brought it in for a landing, flames starting shooting out the ESC and catching the Nylon main gear on fire! Once I landed it and shut it down, I quickly ran over, tore the canopy off, pulled the LiPo off (amazingly still fine) and then tried the blow the fire out. It would not stop burning, so I quickly grabbed the water bottle from the truck and poured it on the burned carbon disaster! DANG!!! What a major bummer! I've been flying Align products since the 450S and this is the first fire I've had or seen!

Align and Assurance RC - please help me out! Obviously, this was a manufacturer's defect in the ESC, so what can be done? I don't push the helicopter hard (using 13T pinion with +/- 11 pitch), so I wasn't overamping the ESC. The tail belt was also as loose as possible to prevent slippage, so it wasn't dragging the motor. I'm surprisingly not angry about this, but I do hope Align will help me out to make things right! Here is the casualty list:

Almost all plastic and carbon pieces of Trex 500 kit
All gearing (main gear and tail components within body) and Canopy
Scorpion 1600kV Motor (wires cooked and carbon throughout magnets)
Align 60A ESC (smoked)
3x Futaba S9650 servos (melted cases and gearing)
Futaba GY611 Gyro (computer controller)
Dubro Servo Arms (all melted and/or deformed)
Spektrum DX7 Receiver Kit

I've attached before and after pictures of the bird. The only changes before the fire were the Scorpion 1600kV motor (as the bearings on the 500L went bad) and metal bearing blocks.

05-05-2008 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Sadly, you're not the first, and won't be the last, whose electric heli went up in flames. Search RR and you'll find many instances of exactly what happened to you.

Defect in the speed control? Maybe. Follow up on that angle.

But catastrophic failures in any speed control can result in similar results in an electric heli.

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* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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LouInSD
Veteran
Location: San Diego CA USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Sorry to hear it...

I pulled into my field a few months ago to see someone's 600 burst into flames. His Align esc just exploded into flames. It was crazy...

That's when I decided to go 10S..



I never went with the stock Align electronics. I don't trust them...
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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The_Widowmaker
Key Veteran
Location: Bakersfield, CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The grounded ESC/Battery negative to frame will probably come back to bite you.. if it did not already. Thats the first thing they will point out since on a CF frame you have made the entire frame a candidate for a dead short.

"I'm a Virgin.. I'm just not very good at it. "
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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docjoe
Elite Veteran
Location: Stockton, CA United States

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I had something happen with my 600. I think my problem was that the gf had worn away some of the esc-motor leads and then that caused the electronics to burn. My 611 was the one that burned up along with the esc. It was sad but the damage wasn't as bad as yours.

Joe
We haven't seen Colonel Angus around these parts for years!
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Widowmaker

So is it your position that grounding the negative to the frame is a dumb idea? Is this only an issue if a wire chafes and grounds to the frame? If so, I know I can avoid that.

Keeping my eye on this one.

keepin' it real
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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LouInSD
Veteran
Location: San Diego CA USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		There's a vid around here somewhere where one of the Szabos is trying to blow out an ESC fire on his 600, during a demo where he's trying to show off how great the Align heli is...

DOH! LOL
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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macsgrafs
Senior Heliman
Location: Barnstaple, Devon, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Man that is tragic. Now I see why so many dont use align electrics, all I can say is thank god I'm not into 3D & the current draw that goes with it. I think you will have trouble getting them to even replace that ESC, they certainly will not replace anything else!

Ross

Seems to me that ALL heli's beat the air into submission
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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The_Widowmaker
Key Veteran
Location: Bakersfield, CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
Widowmaker

So is it your position that grounding the negative to the frame is a dumb idea? Is this only an issue if a wire chafes and grounds to the frame? If so, I know I can avoid that.

I would not say dumb, if so Im dumb because I did it too Yes if a hot wire gets chaffed and touches your going to have a dead short and somethings going to cook. Im not saying that happened here but that is most likely the stand Align would make or any company.

I think some fuse the ground somehow so that if it does short the fuse will blow.

"I'm a Virgin.. I'm just not very good at it. "
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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kegerator
Heliman
Location: Washougal, WA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I agree with some of your observations, the ground to the negative is probably NEVER a good option. Unfortunately, the faulty design of the Trex 500 with the static-generating tail forces us to use methods such as a negative ground in order to fly as safe as possible. I'm not asking to replace the electronics, all I'm hoping for is for Align to help out some of the pilots who have supported the brand for years. If I crashed on my own regard, I don't expect Align to be responsible. But for a faulty ESC (which clearly Align has had problems with in the past), I'm hoping they will look at this and help out. If I had the money to replace the helicopter, I would and that would be the end of it. Unfortunately, as is the case with most of us, we need financial help every once in a while to get back flying when disasters happen that we can't control.
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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gravydrive
Senior Heliman
Location: Air Station Sitka, AK - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
Unfortunately, as is the case with most of us, we need financial help every once in a while to get back flying when disasters happen that we can't control.

Socialized heli-care!

Murphy's Law Denier
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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JEEPWORLD2002
Key Veteran
Location: BLUEBELL PA USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		just add a fuseable link for grounding ur frame so if it does short it will blow the fuse link and done yes if the frame is ground and a batt hott wire shorts the 30c/60c burst rate will cook cf. What kinda bec were are u using ? if u powering all ur servo a 611 and using the bec in the align esc i think u were over drawing on the bec IMHO. And this is what use to happen to cc esc when over drawing the bec. just a thought

Trex600n Trex500 Mikado LoGo5003d// Hacker, CastleCreations,Ys 50, JR 7703d/8900, Radix
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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BrainDrain_dx
Senior Heliman
Location: Wichita KS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		"Obviously, this was a manufacturer's defect in the ESC" but your using a motor that can pull more amps than the esc is rated for. How can it be their fault? (Not trying to be mean, just asking)

"so I wasn't overamping the ESC" and you have an eagle tree graph showing this?

I have a 1900 on 5s that I bang around pretty hard, I expect a fire anytime now. Sorry for your loss.

dx4life
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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The_Widowmaker
Key Veteran
Location: Bakersfield, CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		You can actually do away with the grounded frame. Grounding the tail shaft, or getting a metal tail, and the front pulley shaft eliminates the VDG Generator effect.

"I'm a Virgin.. I'm just not very good at it. "
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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Tmaster
Key Veteran
Location: Central Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The frame itself is a poor conductor. Grounding the front pulley shaft/bearing is the best way to suck up the static discharges, as the_windowmaker stated.

You want to stop the static or re-route it at the point of creation. Letting the static build up into the entire frame is bad. bad......!

I've been working on my fully belt driven kit for the Rex 500 and it uses a 16T pulley at the front of the boom. It has been working excellent so far with no static problems. All i have is 1 ground where the Main belt rides on the idler. No grounds in the tail area!
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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kegerator
Heliman
Location: Washougal, WA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		All-in-all, I'm just glad no one was hurt when the fire started. When I quickly landed the helicopter, as the ESC was cooking, the motor would oscillate on it's own even with throttle hold on. So, I had to wait until the motor stopped before I could approach the helicopter, rip off the canopy, and rescue the LiPo from igniting. Then it was a matter of trying to get the burning Nylon gears to go out, which took water. From now on, I will always carry a fire extinguisher in my flight pack - just as a safe precaution.
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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MTX
Senior Heliman
Location: Cleveland, ohio-united states

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Kegerator, im sorry to hear about your loss. Unfortunately, im not sure how useful Align is going to be in this, ive been trying to contact them about a defective part on my 450 for a few months now. Assurance RC is defiantly your best shot at getting anything, i have talked to their customer support and they are very helpful. another good thing is outside of the plastics, the heli really isnt in too bad of shape(not saying it wont be cheap to fix)

Best of luck
MTX

Constantly testing the Laws of Physics
05-05-2008 Over year old.
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ADRYAN
Key Veteran
Location: Stouffville, Ontario, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Most likely.. off the bat, the use of a scorpion motor will not help them determine if it was a mnufacturer defect, which in the end, will not help you at all. I use a scorpion motor (-6) for my 450 and i'm using a scorpion commander... If you have used an align motor and align esc, it would be easier for them to take the defect to their end.




a


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DYNAX/OS91 : 9303/S649pcm : GY601/9251 : CSMRL10/9253 : 7.4vLipo/Regulator : KO2123s(ai/el/pi)
05-06-2008 Over year old.
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Gyronut
Elite Veteran
Location: Martinsville In.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I noticed your fly the Scorpion Mtr.... any chance it overloaded the ESC..??

Rick
05-06-2008 Over year old.
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ADRYAN
Key Veteran
Location: Stouffville, Ontario, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The thing is too, Align most likely do extensive tests for their own equipment that goes in and with their kits. I doubt that they have done the same tests with other motors. If it was a company that specializes in esc's like Castle Creations, I would probably get in touch with them first to see if they have tested a new type motor such as the scorpion to see if they have had success in the combination. i think scorpion announced some esc's that does not work well with their motor (or something like that, or maybe it was JGF and the Jeti esc). Some motor-esc combinations should be taken into consideration carefully and contact both manufacturers, if one is not sure, just to see if it works properly... and get in writing (even via email).

Most likely, a scorpion esc would not have resulted in the same end especially if it is the recommended esc for the specific motor for a specific heli. Higher end esc's even take them into consideration and do their own testing just to see if they can recommend their product's use for specific motors, but you have to inquire especially if they have not posted/anounced it's compatibility.


I feel for you though man....



a

p.s. I'm using a 70A Scorpion Commander for my Scorpion HK2221-6 motor for the 450. Scorpion even recommends 55A esc for that motor, but I got what I could get locally and it even ended up being shorter in size than the 55A and fitted properly with less hassles.


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DYNAX/OS91 : 9303/S649pcm : GY601/9251 : CSMRL10/9253 : 7.4vLipo/Regulator : KO2123s(ai/el/pi)
05-06-2008 Over year old.
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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > T-REX 500 TREX 500 IS BURNING...LITERALLY! HELP ALIGN!!!
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