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Radio - Futaba FASST > From the Futaba Forum........Heat and 2.4Ghz Rx!
 
 
Flying Tivo
Veteran
Location: Monterrey,NL,Mexico

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well All!!!

We have found the issue!!!!

You all are not going to believe this but it is seriously going to impact how you install your 6014FS!! It has nothing to do with TX, 2.4 modules (we tried that too by the way) or your setup.

IT IS ALL ABOUT HEAT!!!!!

Whatever you do, do not let this RX get up to 164 degrees!! It will go red on you!!

My friend is in AZ. The flying we have done is mostly in the evening and AZ has been fairly cool. But the other day when this was happening it was the middle of the day and hot sun. We took a flight and it was fine. But then problems!! We didn't realize it at the time.

At home we were setting up for the XFC. Had the plane in the driveway with 2 RX 6014FS in it for redundancy. We had them on no problem for 15 minutes. Then 15 minutes later one RX goes red and the other one went red as well a few seconds later!! We tried everything to get them back and they would only come back momentarily until they went red again. What the hell!!

What can it be?!!! We said maybe heat? The sun was hot!! With a temp gun we shot it showing 167 degrees F. We wheeled the plane in the garage again and let it sit for a while. We turned everything on. For 24 minutes we could not get it to go red. We wheeled it out into the sun again and had the temp gun on it. At 164 degrees F they went red. Both RX at 164F went red. Even though they cooled down bringing it back inside, they would not come back online if you did not cycle the switches. We tested this 3 times and as long as the RX was less than 164 degrees F we could not make it go RED!!!! But the second our temp gun got to 164 degrees F "BANG RED". You tell us?!

By the way the techs obviously said the RX's where fine no problems. We had sent it to them. They could not get them to fail. We found this heat problem out yesterday and were too late to call them. We will let them know Monday morning.

It's getting hot out there in the USA!! AZ is 115F. Not to mention folks running canisters in there fuselages.

We are convinced that this is the issue. It makes sense, is consistent and we were able to fail it consistently every time!!

By the way this was tested on 4 diffrent RX!!!

I'm not sure if we are off here. However, we will keep you posted on what Futaba techs will say.

I couldn't belive how hot things get in their as well. However, if you are in 100 degree weather, it could be hard to keep the inside cool enough.

We will do some more testing on how hot the RX gets just from operating it.

Jsabini


Baxter, responded that the problem has been escalated to Futaba Tech.

Lets see what happens, keep your Rx cool.

If life throws at you lemons......Squirt some lemon juice in the eye of your enemy!!!!
04-28-2008 Over year old.
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		What voltage where you running?

And what load? (servos etc)

Can you put a watt meter between the battery and the regulator to see?
04-28-2008 Over year old.
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		That was cut and pasted from the Futaba forum. It refers to tests performed with 33%+ scale aerobatics planes.

It's in regards to this thread:

http://www.14mz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=724

You may have to be a member to view that thread, sorry.

It is interesting, nonetheless. I will make it a point to keep my helis out of the sun when sitting idle.
04-28-2008 Over year old.
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Flying Tivo
Veteran
Location: Monterrey,NL,Mexico

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		What i understood, is that it did not matter what was going on with the servos or voltage. It was heat on the Rx that made it fail. Of course too low voltage will caus it to reset like any other.

felipe

If life throws at you lemons......Squirt some lemon juice in the eye of your enemy!!!!
04-28-2008 Over year old.
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Higher voltage and higher load will raise the internal temp.
Perhaps you had a fault servo, pulling insane amount of current that made the RX raise in temp.

Unless you have 164F outside in the sun the component wont reach higher then ambient temp by it self that easy.

At 164F many electric components will start to fail.
04-29-2008 Over year old.
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NZ_Neil
Veteran
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		164F is 73 degrees Celsius thats an insane temperature to expect electronics to work.

I bet a std 40mhz or 70Mhz receiver to fail at that temp.

Sorry I wouldnt fly a model with those temps in the fuselage.
04-29-2008 Over year old.
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tgo
Senior Heliman
Location: HK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Can't agree with this, as the connectors share the same power bus only, the receiver is not a power regulator, it should be be heat up under servo's heavy current loads.....

My lipo's for T500 will not heat up to such temp after normal flights too, that's a bad temp for both lipos and other electric devices!


Quote 
Higher voltage and higher load will raise the internal temp.
Perhaps you had a fault servo, pulling insane amount of current that made the RX raise in temp.
04-29-2008 Over year old.
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karman
Senior Heliman
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Heat in Fusalage

i can easily see heat builup in the sun.. i've had my car standing in outside temp of 35 C, and inside after 1 hr it was about 56C (meassured). now if you have small enclosure it will easily heat up more..

i look at my mini titan canopy that actually deformed the other day from sitting in the sun... i would just say.. make sure its properly vented, not rapped in foam etc if flying in hot weather

my 0.01cents worth

L:
04-29-2008 Over year old.
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wonderboy
Senior Heliman
Location: Southeast, MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		164F is not an unreasonable temperature requirement for electronics. I was just looking at the datasheet for a microprocessor and it will operate up to 125C (257F). Automotive applications typically need to be capable of operating properly at a MINIMUM of 85C (185F) and quite often right on up to 125C.

I hope this is not a widespread problem... might be worth some trials with my 608's and 607's.
04-29-2008 Over year old.
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Your lipo under the canopy will take damage from 140F...
04-29-2008 Over year old.
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karman
Senior Heliman
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		lipo

sorry to highjack thread

what is "safe" operating temp for lipo's?

i've lost 2 lipo's already with low cycles.. the 1 just went this weekend (kong) after 22 cycles.

ZA temp in summer ave 30 - 38 C. (86 -100F) presume will heat up another 10-15 degrees or so.. so will give about 50C(120F)

will this drasticly reduce life time?

thanks
L:
04-29-2008 Over year old.
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MrMel
rrProfessor
Location: Lidingo, Sweden (GMT+1)

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		> 140F to damage them.

"Optimal" temps seems to be 75-90F.
04-29-2008 Over year old.
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Four Stroker
Veteran
Location: Atlanta

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Futaba Micro Logic chip: -10C to 60C or 14F to 140F
Spektrum Cypress chip : 0C to 70C or 32F to 158F

There are a lot of other parts in there also. A toy manufacturer like Futaba of JR does not have the volume to get extreme temp. components made just for them. There are probaly mil. spec. parts that are a little better.
04-29-2008 Over year old.
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I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I flew last weekend in a VERY hot day (107F outside, thats 42C) and my 608 Rx performed just fine.

The heli was sitting in the sun, and no problems.

the Sullivan starter got so hot i could barely pick it up to start the motor !

www.liorzahavi.com
04-29-2008 Over year old.
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SceaduFan
Senior Heliman
Location: Phoenix, AZ

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		this problem is for all of Futaba's 7, 8 and 14 channel 2.4 receivers. 164F is not hard to accomplish, its actually alot easier then you think.
04-29-2008 Over year old.
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tgo
Senior Heliman
Location: HK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Most lipo recommended not over 70C
Quote 

what is "safe" operating temp for lipo's?

if you are flying a heli with Carbon blades, will you put your heli on ground under this temp? I think not just the receiver will have a problem, right ?

Quote 
this problem is for all of Futaba's 7, 8 and 14 channel 2.4 receivers. 164F is not hard to accomplish, its actually alot easier then you think.
04-30-2008 Over year old.
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steph280
Key Veteran
Location: Irvine, California

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The thread mentions 6014 has build in voltage regulator which may contribute to the heat problem. Does anybody know for sure?
04-30-2008 Over year old.
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Flying Tivo
Veteran
Location: Monterrey,NL,Mexico

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Welcome Global Warming to the Hobby!!!!!!!

All the Rx have built in regulator, but its only for the signal channel(white lead). The powerbus is unregulated.

Felipe

If life throws at you lemons......Squirt some lemon juice in the eye of your enemy!!!!
04-30-2008 Over year old.
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wonderboy
Senior Heliman
Location: Southeast, MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Was some sort of regulated battery supply used? If the receiver was this hot, then the external regulator would also be this hot. I'm just trying to understand the setup a bit more, since I can't view the original posting on the Futaba flyers forum.

Has there been any update from Futaba?
05-01-2008 Over year old.
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rexxigpilot
Key Veteran
Location: florida

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I call BS on claim of 164°F, even in Arizona. Regardless, many electrical devices are rated to operate with an ambient air temp much higher than 115°F. The actual operational temp of the device is typically higher than ambient. However, unless the components' parts start to melt, the operation of the component is changed insignificantly by typical changes in ambient temp. I don't know of any plastic or other material used in modern elctronics that melts at 164°F. The melting temps of the materials in most electronics is as follows: silicon (2,577°F), copper (1984°F) and iron (2800°F). Electrical resistance changes very little at the temp changes we're discussing as the value is relative to 0° K (-273°C).
05-01-2008 Over year old.
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Radio - Futaba FASST > From the Futaba Forum........Heat and 2.4Ghz Rx!
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