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ReadyHeli . Power Helis . CANOMOD

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Align T-REX 600N 700N > OS 50 run question.
 
 
HybridHeli
Heliman
Location: East Texas lawman

This is a new motor in a 600 Nitro pro. Problem is, it will start VERY easily and idle ok (as long as low needle is somewhat lean) but when power is added it will cut of.

It will also run right after start and will make PLENTY power for like 8 seconds then it will cut off. It is not a mixture problem because lean or rich it will run VERY strong for 6~8 sec. then it will suddenly die.
Needle valve is clean and all plumbing is ok. Line has no leaks and there are no air bubbles in the system.

Any help would be appreciated.

__________
nothing automatic about autorotations man..
02-16-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
george0079
Elite Veteran
Location: Terra Firma

sounds like your not getting any preasure to the fuel system. What pipe are you running?

Hell... I can fix that.
Uh oh..
Nope.
It's ***ked!!!
RE-KIT!!!!!
02-16-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
trexdave
Senior Heliman
Location: parma OH

You said this is a new motor correct? Are these the first starts or is it broken in? In other words has this motor ever ran correctly? Recheck all plumbing for restriction dont assume its ok.
pressure tap in pipe
pressure line
pressure nipple on tank
clunk
clunk line
another tank nipple
and so on all the way to carb
02-16-2008 Over year old.
 
 
Simmer
Key Veteran
Location: Massachusetts

It sounds lean and not broken in. As the engine gets some time on it , (each progressive tank) you should be able to lean out the main slightly a click or two. About a gallon or two before you get it close. Just let it run rich for the firs few tanks then start to lean out the main a little. Starting at about two full turns on the main initially and after the third tank you should be close to 1.5 turns out. you will end up at about 1 turn plus a few clicks. The low needle may need adjusting, do not assume it is set right at the factory. do a pich test at idle. your looking for three full seconds before it leans and quits when you pinch off the fule line about one inch from the carb.

get the pinch test to three seconds , then work on the main needle

cutting out as you increase the throttle I have found on this engine is because the low is too rich.
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
HybridHeli
Heliman
Location: East Texas lawman

Thanks for all the responses!

The low end is actually leaned out. The fuel system has been stripped and re-plumbed. The pipe is the Align pipe.

I was inclined to believe the muffler pressure is lacking but I cannot prove that.

I will not say the motor has been broken in.

The engine actually makes a HELL of a lot of power (any throttle position) but only after 6-8 seconds before it dies.
It will start RIGHT BACK UP with barely a turn on the starter. Idle very slowly indefinitely and cut out as you add power OR if you add power as soon as it is started, the will run VERY STRONG for the short couple of seconds.

Super rich, rich, lean, super lean it does not matter.

-HH

__________
nothing automatic about autorotations man..
02-17-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
baddynergy
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

Change your glow plug.
Is it rattling?
what is the engine temp when it dies?
Where are your needles set?
Why is your low end leaned? and where is it set at?


We need more info. It cant run strong if its only running for 8secs. There is something wrong with your set up.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
HybridHeli
Heliman
Location: East Texas lawman

Quote 
Change your glow plug.
Is it rattling?
Brand new #8s
Quote 

what is the engine temp when it dies?
Doesn't have time to warm up

Quote 

Where are your needles set?
Every setting give this issue. On the high end, tried every setting (in 1/4 turn increments) from one turn out all the way to three full turns out.

Quote 

Why is your low end leaned? and where is it set at?

Idles better that way. It will run at almost any low end setting. A touch lean (20deg turn to the right) seems to run better.

Quote 

We need more info. It cant run strong if its only running for 8secs. There is something wrong with your set up.

Believe me, not much more info I can give. It will put out incredible power for theose 8~10 seconds and run very strong then it will just die.

__________
nothing automatic about autorotations man..
02-17-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
baddynergy
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

Did you use RTV to seal the exhaust?

Is it rattling when you start it?

Go back to factory settings on the needles. Put the High end at 1.5 turns out and set LSN to factory setting. You need to adjust the high end first as it effects the LSN to a point.

Go over your entire fuel system.

Check your filter
check the fuel lines
check the clunk
Are you using a raptor header tank??

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
Simmer
Key Veteran
Location: Massachusetts

Put an Enya 3 in there. I feel its a better (slightly hotter) plug.
I have always run the enya 3 (tried the OS8 but it was not as easy to tune)

Prob wont fix your problem, but I beleive its an upgrade to what your running.
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

Is your Carb fully seated in the engine housing?

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

Are all headbolts muffler and backplate bolts been checked for tightness?

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
pani
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens, Hellas

Could it be that the pressure nipple on the tank is not bored out completely? I've found a few that are clogged from when new.
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
rollsray
Heliman
Location: Avon Indiana

OS 50 won't run above idle

I've been working with heliman on this problem.
Fuel system has been inspected and new tubing installed. Vent line is clear from the tank to the tap but don't understand why Align put the vent tap next to the mounting flang. Muffler has a gasket and RTV. The RTV is not in the exhaust path.
Throttle curve is liner. Low end needle is center. Main needle valve is two turns out. Glow plugs used were OS 8 and Ena #3. Fuel is 30% (nothing worng with the fuel ran a OS 37 on same fuel with no problems). No bubbles noted in the fuel line. Fuel line has fuel from tank to carburetor at all power settings.
Head bolts and back plate botlts are tight. Glow plug is tight with gasket. No unusal noise in the engine seems to be tight and assembled correctly.
The carb is installed correctly and lower gasket is installed. Main needle valve packing is good. Muffler is not full of fuel and muffler exhaust is not blocked.
I feel OS just missed on this engine. You can not be correct all the time. This hyper is best suited as a fishing weight.
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
baddynergy
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

Try reinstalling the muffler with no RTV. It is possible(even though it is not in the exhaust path) that it is flaking off and putting out the fire.

If he is using a raptor header. the nipple may have a piece of flashing preventing ample fuel flow. Try and look in the hole to check and try running a drill bit though it to clear it out.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
2LTime
Veteran
Location: Walworth,NY

I you used RTV, put a new plug in. If that doesn't work, put another new plug in. If it still doesn't work put one more NEW plug in. Once a plug gets evem fumes on it from RTV curing, it seems it's no good anymore. Throw the RTV away.

Jeff

If you can't learn to do it well, learn to enjoy doing it badly.
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
rollsray
Heliman
Location: Avon Indiana

OS 50 run question

Engine was run without RTV and the result was the same. The RTV was installed to see if it would help. Muffler tap was remoevd and is clear. Fact is Fact OS missed on this engine. I have not been impressed with this the 600N and now I'm really not impressed with this heli. The engine is only part of the issue with the 600N. I've seen rubber models go together better than the 600N. I got a lemon. You can not win all the time.
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
gftazz
Veteran
Location: upstate N.Y. in the Adirondacks

Couple of more suggestions here.

Not being an ass here but are you sure your spinning it counterclockwise with the starter looking down from the top at the starter cup on the heli? It may be running backwards on you??

Also you could leave the glow ignitor on the motor till you get it to revup and hover some if the motor is new the ring may not be seated yet so it's cutting out from the rich mixture not pulling in the mixture into the motor yet.

The Idle needle should be at horizontal or 1% - 2% counterclockwise open from that(3pm position). Start with the main needle at around 2 turns out.

The motor is getting fuel or it wouldn't fire up on you. Check your throttle curve and watch the throttle barrel open as you move the stick to see if it's opening up too fast or too much in a small ammount of stick movement which may be flooding it out from it coming on too fast.
Should be linear 0-25-50-75-100 there is marks on the carburator near the rotating throttle arm and the one little hash mark in the middle (there is 3 of them there) is 50% open throttle. Move your throttle stick open to 50% in the radio and see if that matches with the marks.

You may have to use some more throttle trim once the motor is started to keep it running as the carb barrel may not be opening enough at low throttle stick for enough mixture to get in to keep it running so you use the throttle trim tab to open the throttle some to get it to stay idleing.

Tom

Oh No Someone Please Stop Me Before I Go Broke With This Heli Thing!!
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
baddynergy
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

Is he running a raptor header tank?? they are known for plastic flashing in the pressure feed.

When you tried with out RTV was it a fresh plug??

There is definetly something not right with the set up. Even if it is a bad engine, it should still rev and not die.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
rollsray
Heliman
Location: Avon Indiana

OS 50 run question

Not to seem as tought I don't appreciate help. I've touched on every thing suggested so far. Some times thowing new parts at a problem will not fix them. Some days you have to wake up and smell the roses. In this case it would be the leamons.
The only way to fix this problem is to pour a little gas on it and light a match. Fact is Fact the motor has a defect.
The final test is to put it on a test bench. That will be next if I can find the time for now this 600N is just a model on a shelf.
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

My first Hyper had issues on reliable running at first. Did all the above as people have posted including myself. Tore down the carb and found abit of crap in the metering system. No alot at all . It looked like very small small plastic shavings. Cleaned it up and much better. It wouldn't come out with flushing with fuel as I did that but found the small debris after taking the carb apart later.
Just a thought.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
02-17-2008 Over year old.
 
 
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Align T-REX 600N 700N > OS 50 run question.
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