RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - BLS451 Glithing

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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > BLS451 Glithing

helimatt
Elite Veteran
Location: Lafayette, IN

My Posts This: Topic Forum

I don't have any skin in this but here's a question (for Futaba and ourselves as we choose equipment):

Is Heli use more abusive than land (off-road trucks) vehicles? Yes, helis have vibration, put loads into the servos, are constantly working, but CARS for crying out loud, must put some serious hurt on the servos? Is the helicopter a tougher duty for a servo than the car? Maybe some folks who run both can comment.

I get the feeling as mentioned above, that Futaba is backing away because they know they have a design problem. I am sure that they originally intended these for Heli use. Having a steering servo go out or glitch might be less dangerous than a cyclic servo...

If you pull yours and send them back to Futaba, tell them you were using them "in an off-road vehicle"...

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

03-06-2008 01:08 PM

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hootowl
rrProfessor
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Quote
If you pull yours and send them back to Futaba, tell them you were using them "in an off-road vehicle".

Yea why not. It works both ways.

'Blessed is the man who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed'

03-06-2008 02:10 PM

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tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

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Just don't tell them that your truck was jumping over some holes or they may qualify it as an "aerial" vehicle and warranty would be void

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

03-06-2008 02:18 PM

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turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

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Thinking out loud I wonder if the glitching problem is a result of the brushless motor ESC broadcasting interferience and if the 72 mgz antenna is to close to any of them it could cause the glitching. Anyone with a 2.4 having these problems?

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them

03-06-2008 02:31 PM

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tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

My Posts This: Topic Forum

its not interference.

My friend experienced the issue on 35Mhz and after upgrading to FASST 2.4 the problem still arrised.

There is something about the pots. Maybe too weak or too sensitive.

We spooled up his bird (stratus with YS91) to 1800 rpm on the ground without blades attached (governor was controlling the rpm so it wouldn't over rev) and boy I wish I would have taken a video... the pitch servo wasn't jittering. It was jumping violently left and right for well over 30 degrees (each side!!!)! it looked like a last degree parkinson disease. At first I even told him to stop wiggleing the sticks so I could see the servo better... thats when he said he wasn't touching the radio...

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

03-06-2008 02:39 PM

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Ken Filloon
Veteran
Location: Highland, Michigan

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I have to agree with Helimatt on this one. In comparison to an off road 1/8 scale buggy taking jumps, cart wheeling and smashing into things at 25 mph a helicopter would be a smooth ride for those servos. I think there are some defective parts involved and a recall is in order.

Precision Model Bearings

03-06-2008 04:34 PM

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helislider
Heliman
Location: Lake Arrowhead,CA -USA

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Are the 351's having the same problem? I just received two 451,s and a 351 that I was going to use on my raptor.After reading this post I decided to return the 451 and go with the 8717,s on cyclic and possibly keep the 351 on the collective.

Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

03-06-2008 05:26 PM

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lfalsetto
Key Veteran
Location: COLORADO

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351's are listed by Futaba as only being for surface.

03-06-2008 05:44 PM

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Ken Filloon
Veteran
Location: Highland, Michigan

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The s9155 is the air version of the s9351.
Same specs, same gears, longer wire?

Precision Model Bearings

03-06-2008 06:09 PM

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Jay1
Veteran
Location: Colorado Springs

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After I wear out my futaba servos..... It is going to be JR all the way as I do not like the business practices that futaba is trying to pull here.

Jay
Sooner or later, Gravity will win!

03-06-2008 06:16 PM

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tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

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Never ever had a problem with my 9351 servos. I think the problem here is with the "brushless" series rather than air/surface servos. Rc car guys are having issues too.

Actually I did have a problem with my 9351 during a crash... they are so strong that the servo arms exploded... it sucked to get the perfect geometry back again

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

03-06-2008 07:24 PM

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krysta
Heliman
Location: Champaign IL

My Posts This: Topic Forum

BLS451 Glitching

hootowl,

Yes, I do work for the Futaba Service Center here in the US. And I guess you could call me an "offical rep", but I ONLY get on these forums in my SPARE TIME to try to answer questions from people who are needing help.

I answered this posting after discussing the question of these servos being used in helis with our Product Manager. Futaba DID design these servos for use in Cars. They recommend them for car use only. They list them as being compatiblefor airplanes and helis. Futaba knows that people are going to use these in ways that they are not recommended ( just as they did the S9351 when using it in airplanes ) and there is nothing they can do but list their own recommendations.

Our Team Futaba reps experiment constantly with product, that is one of the aspects of being a Team Futaba rep.

There is no "design problem" with these servos. They were made for use in cars that do not require the precise centering abilities that a helicopter needs. They work as they should in cars.

They MAY also work for some of you in any other application that you choose, but we cannot be certain of this. This is why they are listed only as compatible in other applications.

I am not backing down or hiding on this issue. I do not have the time to visit this site everyday, but had I known that a question I answered for a customer had escalated to this level, I would have gotten back here sooner.

I was told of the error on the website, I told the customer that I would have this fixed. I did so, and then it is questioned as to why I did it so fast???

As for the exact reason why these servos are not recommended for cars and not helis, we have contacted Japan to see if they can gvie us the specifics and will have to let you know when we hear back from them.

Also, no one at Hobbico or Great Planes has ever said that there would be an improved 14MZ manual coming out. We are not sure where this is coming from.

If you have these servos, you have installed them and they are working as you wish, you should be fine. If you are having glitching problems, please let us know at service@futaba-rc.com and we will take care of getting these back to be checked here at the service center.

Krysta
Futaba Service Center USA

03-06-2008 08:06 PM

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hootowl
rrProfessor
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Thank you Krysta for your comprehensive response. Is there a Heli version of the brushless coming out in the near future?

'Blessed is the man who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed'

03-06-2008 08:16 PM

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WhirlyBird500
Senior Heliman
Location: Rhode Island, USA

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I would also like to say thank you. I look forward to hearing what Japan has to say.

03-06-2008 08:22 PM

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deafheliflyer
Key Veteran
Location: Arizona

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Thanks Krysta..

As for me.. the BLS-451's are on its way back to Heliproz.. They are shipping me 8717's..

Eventhough a lot of people arent having issues.. I wouldnt want to take a chance with a bird that has cost me an arm and a leg to outfit it

Michael

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

03-06-2008 08:28 PM

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Adey_Law
Senior Heliman
Location: Bournemouth, UK

My Posts This: Topic Forum

if it was a brushless specific problem then the 251 would be affected too. It seems most are talking about the 451 but that could just be that there are more out there because they are faster.

i have about 40 flights on my 351 and are still going strong.

Ade

03-06-2008 08:28 PM

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cscheli
Heliman
Location: chicago, il

My Posts This: Topic Forum

Krysta,

Thanks for coming back and answering a few more questions to the group.
Like I said before don't shoot the messenger, you guys are not responsible for this and I think everyone appreciates your help and response, but your the only piece of Futaba they can get a hold of so there setting there teeth into you.

But understand that all the publicly available information that people use to make a purchase decision showed these servos as being "recommended" for air and heli use. Your online servo search utility showed it "until it was changed the other day", and your product catalog on your site show these as "recommended" for air and heli on page 19. In fact your primary distributor Tower Hobbies is marketing and selling these as aircraft and heli appropriate.

Despite the fact that now it has been established that these are not appropriate for aircraft and heli, that's a bitter pill to swallow for people who dropped $400+ on these things based on that information, only to be stuck with something that is not safe to use in there aircraft.

And that's the real gripe hear, servos costs as much as the core helicopters, and to be left holding the bag in a situation like this is only going to leave people upset, and disenchanted with how Futaba has handled this, while looking outside to JR for there DS 8717 that they say are "specifically" designed for helicopter cyclic.
I for one was lucky that my retailer allowed me to return mine after hearing this and I'm going the JR route because apparently Futaba does not have enough confidence in any of there servos to actually say "yes this servo is appropriate for helicopters"

Thanks Again for jumping into the pit Krysta and I appreciate and understand that your not in the marketing department. But this might be a good example for you guys to push out to the business to illustrate how these situations hurt Futaba's reputation and customer relationships.

Personally I don’t think anyone with these servos in there aircraft are going to be happy unless Futaba offers to take them back in exchange for something comparable and suitable for aircraft use. And I don’t blame any of them for feeling that way.

03-06-2008 08:37 PM

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tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

My Posts This: Topic Forum

There are less people with BLS251 than BLS451's. There is 10 times more chance problems to arrise concerning the BLS451.

And I won't even mention where my friends bls251 is right now but it ain't on the heli...

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

03-06-2008 08:38 PM

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Funky Trex
Key Veteran
Location: Westerville, OH - USA

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Come on Tony, don't tell me I need to worry about my BLS251 too

03-06-2008 08:47 PM

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Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

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Here's another one to add the list of Futaba FUBAR:

8) TM-14 FASST performance is equal to G3.

If you're just getting into this thread please see my previous posts for items 1-7.

03-06-2008 08:50 PM

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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > BLS451 Glithing

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