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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > YS 91SR sounds odd when loaded
 
 
creightoncarr
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Location: Missouri City, Texas - USA

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I've got a YS 91SR in my N9 with a SB-19. The engine sounds a little odd to me when its loaded, kind of a gurgling sound. It's a new engine and only has about two gallons through it. 1st gallon the heli was flown pretty mildly. The 2nd gallon was a little harder and with a TJ RevMax at 1820 and 1900. The engine is still running pretty rich (about 1.2 turns out on all three needles - maybe slightly less on the idle) with head temps of about 150 degrees. This is my first YS engine so I'm not used to the sounds its making and what they are telling me. You can hear the engine in this video:
http://media.putfile.com/Creighton---N9---10-28-07

It sounds good until the 1:00 minute mark and then you can hear the "gurgling" for lack of a better term. You can really hear it at 1:38 and on. Is it possible this is just a combination of running very rich with the limiter engaged? Next time out I'm going to starting leaning more but I wanted to get some ideas if anyone had some. I can't complain about the power, despite the sound and how rich its running the power is still there.
10-29-2007 Over year old.
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Chuckie
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Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

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Quote 
about 1.2 turns out on all three needles - maybe slightly less on the idle

The motor is set too lean!

Edit: I should have said the mid is set too lean.

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10-29-2007 Over year old.
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Chuckie
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Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

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Try these settings

Idle = 1.2
Mid = 1.5
High = 7/8

Charles

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10-29-2007 Over year old.
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creightoncarr
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Location: Missouri City, Texas - USA

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I thought the needle settings seemed a little lean, but the head temps have never been over 150 when measured immediately after flight so I kept going a little more. Does the YS just run much cooler than the OS engines? I'll try your suggested needle settings. You mean 7/8 on the high?
10-29-2007 Over year old.
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Chuckie
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Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

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Yes 7/8 on the high.

I don't know what normal YS motor temps are but the sound your motor is making is not good. At points in the flight you don't see any smoke. YS motors always smoke or smoke more than OS so if you ever see no smoke your hurting the motor.

Charles

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10-29-2007 Over year old.
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Chuckie
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Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

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I used different settings in the YS SR when the outside temps were 95 and above. Now that the outside temps are down the settings I posted, 1.5 on mid and 7/8 on high, are good for cooler temps. I'm even close to 1 turn on the high to keep the motor happy in 60 degree temps. Cooler air is denser so more fuel is needed to keep the same fuel to air ratio. The motor makes more power in the cooler air so the gov doesn't open the carb as much.

In the summer when the temps were 95 and above I ran 1.25 on mid and 0.75 on high. So you need to adjust the motor based on temperature conditions for the different seasons. The YS doesn't need to be adjusted every day unless you want to get the most flight time. But you are really only adjusting for 20 or 30 seconds either way.

In your flight you can hear the motor going from rich to lean and back. Every time you punched it the motor was rich and when you backed off throttle the gov pulled the carb back close to the midrange point and then it went lean making that sound.

I fly different maneuvers to tell the high is set correct versus setting the mid. Full speed climb outs can get you close to setting the high as well as fast tight tick tocks. With tick tocks you can get the gov to keep the motor at full throttle and the heli stays low so you hear and see what's going on. But then you let go and let the model tail slide a little and you want good smoke and sound, but not like you have. Setting the gov correctly is important but sometimes going back to regular throttle curves is better to adjust the needles.

For setting the mid after the motor is warm I hover for several seconds and then climb out at full throttle. I'm looking for how long it takes for the motor to burn off the extra fuel it had and transition to a constant sound and smoke output. If too rich the motor will take longer to clear the extra fuel. What you want is for the motor pull quickly but never let the sound go lean or see very little smoke output.

The other trick to setting the motor is to set the mid and high so the motor mixture is set as linear as possible. Being the mid is not rich when the high is lean and vice versa. I haven't figured out how to explain this but the tick tocks to zero pitch maneuver is a good indicator. There should be a consistent and a slightly increased amount of smoke when going from aggressive pitch change to mini tail slide all while the motor is just humming along. If the mid is too rich the motor may hesitate or burp when it gets too much fuel after being heated up.

Charles

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10-29-2007 Over year old.
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Tyler
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Location: Chicagoland area

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Noise

I believe you are running lean and too much headspeed.

I'd keep your idle up limited to 1850 for 3D and less for sport flying.

I found that any time the engine makes a bad noise it is lean. When rich it will be down on power and sound dull, but it doesn't sound bad.

I also noticed that my engines would show a lean setting by outputting split second voids in the smoke trails. I will point out that the sound the engine made at these times sounded the same way a rich running OS 91szPS sounded. Therefore, I misinterpreted the sound of the YS engine and went the wrong way on the needles. Paying close attention to the smoke trail on a highly visible day clued me into my errors.

Tyler
10-29-2007 Over year old.
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creightoncarr
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Location: Missouri City, Texas - USA

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Well, you guys were absolutely spot on. Got in a couple of flights with your suggested needle settings Chuckie and the engine has never run or sounded so good. Now I know what to listen for. I was mistaking the gurgling sounds for being to rich and with the head temps I was seeing I probably would have kept leaning it to death before giving up and putting in another OS engine. Now that it's running properly I see why the engine is so popular. Thanks for your help. Creighton
10-30-2007 Over year old.
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Tyler
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Location: Chicagoland area

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Kudos to Chuckie

Chuckie knows his YS engines, and his sure performed well at IRCHA. I like his flying style, too.

Tyler
10-30-2007 Over year old.
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BJames111
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Location: Billings, Montana

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late on this post, but I had the same issue. mid was too lean, richened a couple clicks and then fine.

Brian James
10-30-2007 Over year old.
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cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

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..

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.
10-30-2007 Over year old.
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Chuckie
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Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

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It's good to hear the motor is working great now. The motor should be ok if you didn't get it too hot. Just consider it an aggressive break-in

The SR will definitely last longer at 1850 and I, like Tyler, suggest that HS. I'm hoping Synergy comes out with a lower gear ratio soon but the SR motor pulls +-14 pitch even at the 1850 speed. Something to get used to.

Charles

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10-30-2007 Over year old.
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Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

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Hi Chuckie,

Are your settings for Cool Power 30% heli or 20%?
11-02-2009 05:41 AM
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Chuckie
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Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

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30% and 80 degree temps. They are starting points.

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11-02-2009 11:18 PM
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Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

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Thanks Chuckie, just having a slight "pulsing" issue with my new YS91SR3C so just after you starting points, i'm running Coolpower 30%. Different beast to tune than my OS91HZ-PS that's for sure!
11-02-2009 11:35 PM
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Brendan78
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Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

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One more question Chuckie, how does the Kasama header affect the above numbers also?
11-04-2009 08:37 PM
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Chuckie
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Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

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I haven't tried the Kasama header but I made my own ported header using a spare hatori header and it reduces the mid range torque. It reduces the back pressure but the tuning is changed and the motor is not as strong. The ported header worked on the YS ST motor and SB-18 pipe. As far as affecting the needle settings I would say yes. I would say start with a richer setting on mid and high and tune the motor as I suggest.

Read these more detailed tuning tips.

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t413323p1/
http://runryder.com/helicopter/t383388p1/

I heard some people say the Kasama makes more power if you run higher RPMs but I wouldn't run the SR higher than 15300, especially if you fly smack 3d. I posted a while back what were the good rpms for the SR. I assume your SR3C will run the same rpms as the SR. Only the carb is different correct?

Charles

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11-05-2009 02:29 PM
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Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

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Hi Chuckie,

The carb part numbers are different, and it also has a steel lined backplate and bigger heatsink on the head. I took the engine out to the field yesterday afternoon and I still got the "pulsing" of the tail in idle up. It's starting to do my head in. I've started with the needle settings in the manual and also worked both high and low out as per the tunning guide you have posted but I can't seem to figure it out.

I've got curve's setup in ST1 and Gov in ST2 running a magnet in the fan (SR3C can't use the backplate sensor). It will sit there fine in idle up until I do a few pitch pumps and then it will slowly move into an oscillation (tail will pulse as you can hear the Rpm change slightly). On curves you can hear it intermittantly, but the gov turns into into a clear pattern (obvioulsy it's trying to control the rpm).

This generally points to a fuel problem/pressure problem. I've started at the manual's factory settings and worked my way richer and can't get rid of it. I replaced the fuel tank, by-passed the header, and now replaced all the fuel lines. I've also tried and Enya 3 and OS8. I'm running cool power 30% heli. I'm pretty stumped as to what it is. Engine doesn't come down hot and is fine during the hover and idle (transitions fine, no cackle when I hold it on the hover to idle up either). I've read where the engine will oscillate on gov if not tunned right, you can hear it on curves as well however (not as clear a pattern as on gov though). I am also going to replace the check valve just in case, but haven't done this yet.

The Kasama header is not only flowed better, but apparently shorter as well so would be slightly different that the flowed hatori header. Any ideas? I've run your needle settings (Actually made the engine sound a bit lean, might be the Kasama header), and it needed to be be a bit richer.
11-05-2009 10:53 PM
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Chuckie
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Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

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The check valve should be hard to blow through. Do you have good tank pressure after the flight when you release the air?

What's the motor rpm in Normal, ST1 and ST2, and how many flights on the motor? What pipe?

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11-06-2009 03:28 PM
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Brendan78
Senior Heliman
Location: Cronulla, NSW Australia

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The check valve is hard to blow through and appears to work ok. Tank is holding pressure after flight's (I own a YS110S so I know how the pressure system works). Pipe is Hatori 946 with kasama header. I've got 2+ gallons through the engine, and my rpm in ST1 and ST2 is around the 15,500 mark. I've say i've done a lot of flights for the 2+ gallons but motor has been kept resonably rich.
11-07-2009 09:53 PM
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