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Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber

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Scale Model RC Helicopters > RCMachine Hughes 500D
 
 
pgoelz
Veteran
Location: Rochester MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
OK, after going through the wringer to get an undamaged fuselage, I find that there are a couple problems with this otherwise fine looking fuselage. All comments below apply to my attempts to mount my stock Trex 450SE (GY401 / 3 X HS-65 / S9650) in the fuselage. I am open to other comments..... has anyone successfully flown this fuselage?

1. The heli chassis mounting method is funkey at best. You are supposed to screw a couple thin ply mounting plates to the bottom of the chassis. Then you are supposed to glue these to glued stacks of spacers in the fuselage. This makes the chassis screws inaccessible and not removable from the heli chassis. The mounting stacks screw to the fuselage but the rear two screws are not accessible with the chassis in place. That makes the chassis non removable.... and probably un mountable. By fabricating some small brackets and screwing the spacers to the fuselage from underneath through small holes drilled in the fuselage, I think I can make it work.

2. The rear cyclic servo hits the inside of the fuselage and prevents the chassis from being centered and mounted high enough. I removed the servo and reinstalled it with the mounting ears on the inside, spaced further inwards with a couple small washers. This helped but the servo still hits slightly. It puts the linkage at a slight angle but this does not seem to be a problem.

3. Even with the re-mounted cyclic servo, the chassis cannot be mounted high enough for the flybar to clear the top of the fuselage at more than about 50% of the available tilt because the servo case still hits the inside of the fuselage. I am very worried that at least on spool up and spool down, the flybar will hit the fuselage and damage something. This would be a non issue if I had the bucks to pop for a multi blade flybarless head....

4. My tail boom mounted Futaba servo hits the inside of the fuselage in any location and orientation that I can place it in. In correspondence with RCMachine, they claim it will fit but they have not stated whether they are talking about a small servo like an HS50. I can get it close, but it still biases the boom to one side and places stress on the boom and the fuselage.

5. As has been noted before, the fuselage is quite heavy. Looks great though. I would not be at all surprised to see hover currents in the 15-20 amps range. More info if I ever get it flying.

My hope was to be able to change between regular pod and boom and the Hughes fuselage without modifying the heli itself. That does not seem possible. Has anyone else actually installed and flown this fuselage? Any input?

EDIT:
Just heard from RCMachine. He says the fuselage is "original from Align" and that "parts are fit W/O problem". Huh? He claims that he has sold "many" and no one has complained. He also sent me a couple links to basic heli sites that would help me "play heli" and suggested that I get help from "someone who know to assemble heli".

I think I'll shelve this project for a while unless someone has some good suggestions. I am not willing to make the needed changes to my Trex right now. Maybe I'll find an older SA version and fit it some day. $150 wasted.... so far, at least. Too bad too. The fuselage is plenty big.... maybe too big. But it is too small in a couple critical places where another 1/4 inch would have made all the difference in the world. I'll bet it was designed for the 450 with mechanical mixing. And frankly I am tired of all the struggle I went through to get this one and all the partial communication with RCMachine. Maybe in the spring I'll come at it with a fresh attitude. Sorry Darth.... should have done it your way Maybe I still will.

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com
10-25-2007 Over year old.
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MadDogDan
Heliman
Location: Loganville, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I have a much larger "little bird" (60 size nitro) with the fuse being made by a different company, but had many of the same problems as you. In mounting the frame to the fuselage I cut some solid blocks and laminated 1/8" plywood to the top to make spacers that would sit the frame and boom in the proper position. I glued the block to the top of the fuse platform and another block with blind nuts "under" the platform. This way I am able to bolt and unbolt the frame to the fuse in a matter of seconds. My tail rotor servo contacted the side of the fuse making it impossible to center the boom in the fuse. Instead of changing out the servo (didn't know if I even could) I cut a hole in the side of the fuse to let a portion of the servo poke through (see first picture of right side of fuselage). It doesn't look bad and most people don't notice it at the field. My flybar paddles contact the fuse at about 45% of it's travel (see how low the flybar is in the second picture). This is not a problem for scale flight and the only way the flybar paddles will contact the fuse if by throwing the stick all the way to the end of it's travel. Just make sure your rotor blades are stretched out straight and the flybar is ballanced before spool-up and you won't have a problem. Necessary in 3-D flight but un-necessary in scale flight. I decided to try it's first flight after reading about this contact problem in one of the Heli Mags where someone said it worked fine for him. The only way besides changing to a multi rotor head is to get a longer main shaft. I may cough up the coin for a five blade head some day.

Hope this helps,
MadDog



10-25-2007 Over year old.
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pgoelz
Veteran
Location: Rochester MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hah, I thought of the same thing... cutting a portion out of the fuselage Decided against it for now.

Really like your paint job...... I've been thinking of doing mine that way too. But I need to get it flying and make sure it isn't simply too heavy.

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com
10-26-2007 Over year old.
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MadDogDan
Heliman
Location: Loganville, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Mine is pretty heavy but it has a YS61 in it which has plenty of power. The fact that it is heavy makes it more stable and fly more like scale. The paint is two part epoxy paint from Klass-Kote. I used an air brush which was a pain in the ass. Next time I will get a small automotive "detail" spray gun. The decals are from CaliGraphics out of FL. They were $20 delivered for all six dry transfer decals. I Emailed Cali pictures I got off the internet of what I wanted and had then in 7 days.

MadDog
10-26-2007 Over year old.
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pgoelz
Veteran
Location: Rochester MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Just out of curiosity, how did you accurately place that servo cutout? Start with a best guess and then enlarge it from there?

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com
10-26-2007 Over year old.
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MadDogDan
Heliman
Location: Loganville, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
pgoelz,

That is pretty much what I did. I slid the frame into the fuselage until the tail rotor servo contacted the side. With a little pressure you can see a slight bulge in the fiberglass. If you have someone with a powerful flashlight (Surefire type) shinning the light on the inside, you can see a pretty good outline of the servo. I cut the hole in the fuselage "a lot" smaller then what was required and slowly enlarged it until the hole was about 1/32" larger on all sides. I didn't want the servo to contact the fuse during vibration or flight as it may start a "run" or crack.

MadDog
10-28-2007 Over year old.
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Jonty
Veteran
Location: NZland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Here is a link to my project. I didn't have to make any fuse cuts and it flys well with HS65s, 9650 and a 401. PM me if you have questions.

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t382348p1/
10-29-2007 Over year old.
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pgoelz
Veteran
Location: Rochester MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I get how you got the 9650 to fit.... nice idea. What servos are you using for cyclic? My HS65s definitely hit the inside of the fuse.

The three blade head neatly solves the flybar / fuselage interference issue.

Do you have a feel for what the flight time is with reasonable reserves?

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com
10-29-2007 Over year old.
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Jonty
Veteran
Location: NZland

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I am using HS65s, the side servo does just touch the fuse but you can get it in close enough to mount the tail case (you just need to hold your mouth the right way). Flight times are interesting at the moment as I am having esc heat problems. The esc I am using has the heat disappator on the oustide of the heatshrink so I suspect I am heating up to quick.
10-30-2007 Over year old.
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pgoelz
Veteran
Location: Rochester MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Out of curiosity, which side is your rear cyclic servo mounted on? Mine is on the left. Mounted on that side there is major interference. I wonder if things fit better if it is on the right.

Can you measure hover current? With the added weight I wonder if the hover current is high enough that the ESC overheats at mid throttle settings. Try a smaller pinion?

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com
10-30-2007 Over year old.
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Jonty
Veteran
Location: NZland

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Thanks for the suggestion. Yeah I will try that as I am still running the 13 tooth. My servo is on the right (if looking at the heli from behind). I think the binding depends on how high the mechanics are in the fuse. I think from memory my servo sits under the part of the fuse that is causing the problems.
10-30-2007 Over year old.
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SSMKN2
Senior Heliman
Location: FOB Salerno, Afghan.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
For the 450 and the heli artist 500 i ran into the same problems as you described.....for the tail servo i simply used one mounting bracket and put it directly under the boom all the way up against my underside gyro mount tray, and hen changed the servo horn and put the ball on the inside of it near the boom as opposed to outside.....had the same issue with collective servo i also put it on the inside of the frame and thus solved the problem of hitting the fuse....as for the wood blocks, i am running mine one taller in the rear than in the front this also helps eith the collective servo hitting the fuse.....as for the flybar i also have the same problem however in the 5 or so flights i have made so far i havent had any contact with the upper pylon....if you need any other ideas or have any questions send em to me and i will help out as much as i can....and on another note to mount the rear blocks inside fuse i changed to an allen headed wood screw you can get your little cheap allen keys back there to fit far easier than a phillips screw.....hope this helped....good luck

Joel
OH-58D Crewchief
Raptor 70/MD500E&D
T-Rex600N/MD500D
Furion 450
10-30-2007 Over year old.
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pgoelz
Veteran
Location: Rochester MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Yup, that all made sense and paralells my thinking. Interesting on the right hand rear cyclic servo.... I wonder if the fuse is a little asymmetrical. Now that I mounted my servo from the inside it is a bit of a pain to get it out and put it on the other side but I can try that.

I too found that it seemed to work to mount the chassis a little higher in the rear. Might even help with landing and takeoff?

I think the real solution with the stupid spacer mounting method is to use T nuts and allen head screws up from underneath through small holes.

But before I start a third attempt to put this thing together, I'd like to hear from anyone who has checked the hover current. Or come to think of it I could I guess weigh the fuse and add that weight to the Trex and see what it takes to hover.

So if he has sold "hundreds" of these as he claims, I wonder where they all are? Certainly not on RR.

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com
10-31-2007 Over year old.
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avalon
Heliman
Location: Sydney Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Pgoelz
I have an Align 500E body and have fitted a Dragonus into it. I did not have the problems with the tail servo but my for/aft cyclic servo gave me a hard time as it struck the fuselage and stopped me getting the whole mecanics high enough. I solved this by mounting the servo with the lugs on the inside of the frame and making 2 wedges out of plastic to cant the servo over at an angle of 40 degrees. This then gave me enough space to get the mecanics in. It does mean that the ball links have a slightly strange angle to them but as I will only be flying very gently I do not see this as a problem. All in all it did not go without some frustration but when I lifted off for the first time and saw her fly it was all worth it. Don't give up. The only problem I now have to solve is an overheating ESC



There I was inverted nothing on the clock but the makers name and only the joystick in my hand
01-03-2008 Over year old.
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iceaxe
Heliman
Location: qld , australia

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well done avalon , im about to put my dragonus inside a 500e also can you send me some more info ie pics ect of what you did to get the dragonus to work ,or even stat a new thread please so as not to hijack this one ,thanks mate
01-05-2008 Over year old.
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avalon
Heliman
Location: Sydney Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
pgoelz

How is your 500 going? I have repainted mine to a photo I found of a Columbian Military heli. I am also adding lights. The overheating problem I was having with the ESC has also been fixed by mounting the ESC under the motor, as this is an outrunner there is a small amount of air movement there and this takes 10-12C (20F-24F)off the temp of the ESC, battery also now runs cooler. I have posted here my mounting solutions if they are any help to you. http://rc-obsession.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=328



There I was inverted nothing on the clock but the makers name and only the joystick in my hand
02-03-2008 Over year old.
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the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

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avalon, thats super nice paint !!

Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz
02-03-2008 Over year old.
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pgoelz
Veteran
Location: Rochester MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
I have not built my Hughes 500 yet. After all the fuss about the damaged fuselage died down I started having serious doubts about the all up weight and resulting battery current. Do you know what your hover current is?

Paul

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com
02-03-2008 Over year old.
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avalon
Heliman
Location: Sydney Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Paul
Do not worry about the weight. If you are careful with your install the fuselage comes in at 300 grams ( tip...loose the copper exhaust trim it is 6 grams of weight all aft of the main shaft). I use a 12T cog, head speed is 2100 rpm and it lifts my one with no problems. I do not know what the current draw is but I have a Flight Power 2170 3 cell pack. I use the new Hyperion 50A ESC with the warning light. I have the cut-off voltage set at 3.1 per cell and the light set to come on at .2 volt above that i.e. 3.3 volts. With a hover and flying around in a scale like manor the light comes on after 9-10 minutes. The battery takes 1650-1740 mah on recharge. The trick is to keep all of the weight forward of the main shaft. I have the gyro electronics mounted on a bracket under the battery, I use a Spektrum radio so there are no issues with interference. Make sure that you have at least 3 degrees of forward tilt on the main shaft when you install the mechanics. Also watch the horizontal stabiliser if you just glue it together it will have up pitch in it, make sure that you adjust this to neutral or 1-2 degrees of down, forget this and he heli will pitch up as you transit to foreword flight. As soon as I get some more pics taken I will post them on the other thread. End of the day just do it you will love this little heli!!! Here are some snaps to get you going







There I was inverted nothing on the clock but the makers name and only the joystick in my hand
02-04-2008 Over year old.
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avalon
Heliman
Location: Sydney Australia

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Lastest pics on the 500. I added some rocket launchers. Was worried about weight so I came up with the idea of using cigar tubes, all up including mounts 25 grams (1oz). As it is only fun scale I think it looks OK.




There I was inverted nothing on the clock but the makers name and only the joystick in my hand
03-24-2008 Over year old.
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Scale Model RC Helicopters > RCMachine Hughes 500D
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