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Yet another Slow Stick For AP Thread

talk the torque

Senior Heliman

SA

Juan I am trying to keep the wings out of one anothers airflow especially at high AoA. That or maybe seperate the wings a bit more.
If I remember correctly you previous SS weighs 38oz. That is light. Are you wanting to carry more payload with this new plane? If you carrying the same weight as in your previous plane then I think it will be too light to fly well in the wind.

Ok I said I had an idea to increase lift for my SS and I havnt had chance to work on it but I've stuck it together with press stick just so you get the idea. I weighs 30g or 1oz and will just strap under your elastics of your wing for additional lift if you need it on a particular flight. I think it would be suited more for calm conditions when you have a tight landing space.

09-29-2008 Over year old.
ministock22

Senior Heliman

Newcastle, OK

I love this thread, you guys in here are so cool! This is what forums are all about right here!

Thanks for what all you guys share!
Denny

09-29-2008 Over year old.
cranester

Key Veteran

Bogota, Colombia

I weighs 30g or 1oz and will just strap under your elastics of your wing for additional lift if you need it on a particular flight. I think it would be suited more for calm conditions when you have a tight landing space.
Wait, I don't get it, where do you strap that thing on, on top of the wing? cool idea

I was thinking maybe clipping the upper wing a bit and extending the lower one a bit, maybe I can get the best of both worlds

But thats sort what your doing with the clip on mod? right?

Juan Crane

09-29-2008 Over year old.
AceBird

Elite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

Although I almost built a bi-plane for AP in the spring, I compared it to a man walking a tight rope with and without the long bar for balancing.
I would assume that you would be using a stabilizer on two axis so I can't see where you would be walking a tight rope. The Bipe will be much better holding elevation. You don't need much space to take off and land with a bipe. A glider still needs forward motion to have aileron control because the prop wash is such a small percentage of the wing area.

Ace
What could be more fun?

09-29-2008 Over year old.
talk the torque

Senior Heliman

SA

Hey ministock22 u can thank Burnt for that, he is the thread starter and has all the positive words of wisdom to keep us all motivated I think its just coincidental but he happens to be a nice guy and clever too :P

Its very difficult for me to know whether a long wing or bipe is better. My plan was to build a long wing all the way and literally just before starting I started thinking about gyros and the affects they would have on my design. I then also decided that it would be a great research program that we already have a successful long wing version of the Aurora. Without any doubt the most stable video I have seen with a plane yet even better than those that are using gyros. I think without gyros long wing aircraft have the advantage of inertia to slow down any roll movements but also more difficult to stop when it does get start and that might be less of an advantage with gyros. I have found the Bipe very responsive on the ailerons even at almost stall speeds. This might be an advantage for a quick thinking gyro. I think it will be great to compare notes of the 2 planes which have very similar wing areas and hopefully we can all learn from it.

From a flying point, the gyro has made a huge difference. When I get to order them I will also try rate gyros on elev and rudd. The induced drag on this plane is high and it kinda flies like a water plane trying to take off. It almost needs to get fly fast enough to get on the step to be efficient. When its cruizing I dont think you will notice much more drag than a long wing span but at high AoA there are now 4 tips instead of 2, plenty of induced drag and it ploughs around safely but nevertheless ploughs. With the 480 motor and trying to pick up my max payload it was very easy to get it flying on the wrong side of the drag curve. Nose up, full power and not climbing. It was always controlable which was comforting

09-29-2008 Over year old.
talk the torque

Senior Heliman

SA

This will just clip on my SS pusher, yes on top of the existing wing. I'm not building a specific plane for it. This add on is 4 ribs wide but that is all i have. It u need more u cud just use 6 ribs etc...

Cheers guys I have to go

09-29-2008 Over year old.
cranester

Key Veteran

Bogota, Colombia

Thanks Talk,

Yeah Burnt is a cool guy, shares all info and is always trying to help, I think there's now a whole bunch of very useful info in this thread. Priceless!

Juan Crane

09-29-2008 Over year old.
Burnt Offering

Key Veteran

Winter Wonder Land, Wasilla Alaska

Hey Guys, I will try to get in here more. I am crazy busy with my computer business, and can only check in a couple times a day right now. I will try harder.
Jason, your bipe is a marvel. I mean that. Your workmanships is extrordinary. That Power 10 will yank that thing around the sky with little effort even with a full payload. I think I've said this before, but that engine took my Aurora aloft when it weighed over 7 pounds..... easily. I think the beautiful thing about what you are doing with your bipe is the fact that you will have enormous amounts of take off power. When you get to elevation, that engine will keep you crusing around with less than half throttle, which translates into longer flight times. Two engines would have been cool, but I think this will work better for you. Even though the scenario of two engines was very workable, I think the added headache of trying to get gyros to compensate for one if its batteries go dead is a battle left for another day.
So Jason you ask where I go next. Well, I am going to stick with my long wing design at least for now. I couldn't be more thrilled with my Aurora. I wish you were here to fly it. I know you well enough to know you would totally aprove of its flight characteristics. However, I am going to go a direction that you have repeatedly tried to persuade me to go, and thats all out FPV. I have been thinking about it for a long time, but between your persuasion and my own need to be able to do AP by myself, at least my stills, I'm getting off the fence. I will say again, smooth video for fixed wing, at least my Aurora, is not so much about staibilizing the camera as it is about stabilizing the plane. I think FPV will be one more step in being better able to fly smoother as I will better be able to seem the angle of my turns. Also, I think for good video, it will require a camera man with their own separate downlink, which I have now. I have found out just by doing stills with my wife that its not always easy to bracket a target when I can't see the angle she needs. FPV will change all of that. As far as how that will look on my Aurora, I'm not sure yet. I will DEFINITLY be changing it to a pusher. Another thing you have persuaded me to do. One thing is for sure. I have an 8 month winter coming on strong. That will give me plenty of time to come up with a plan.

American by Birth, Alaskan by the grace of God!!

09-29-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
cranester

Key Veteran

Bogota, Colombia

Hey burnt, I would not recomend flying FPV alone, unless you have an OSD with return to home arrow, Its VERY easy to get lost up there, It has happened to me a couple of times, If I hadn't had a spotter I would have lost my plane.

Juan Crane

09-29-2008 Over year old.
Burnt Offering

Key Veteran

Winter Wonder Land, Wasilla Alaska

I'm with you Juan, one of the things that got me off the fence was that guy in Norway who flew his Easystar out to that lighthouse all by FPV. THAT was incredible. I appreciate the concern and for SURE I will be doing baby steps at first. But DANG! I would love to do FPV and get some great video flying accross some of these glaciers we have up here that are a mile accross. Yeah Yeah, I know its a stretch, but I'm a big dreamer.

American by Birth, Alaskan by the grace of God!!

09-29-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
cranester

Key Veteran

Bogota, Colombia

I flew 2.5 kms from ground base once at 1km altitute, heres the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1womqLVgWA

Enjoy

Juan Crane

09-30-2008 Over year old.
ministock22

Senior Heliman

Newcastle, OK

OMG! Juan that is incredible, I want to do that so bad.

Thanks for posting!
Denny

09-30-2008 Over year old.
Burnt Offering

Key Veteran

Winter Wonder Land, Wasilla Alaska

Pretty sweet Jaun. I really have no desire to go that high as there is just to much danger of a real aircraft coming into my flight path. Here in Alaska there is a Super Cub or C-185 flying overhead about every 5 seconds. The very LAST thing I need to do is get in a one on one with one of them! A lot of pilots up here are hot doggers who think its fun to buzz a lake or subdivision or anything else for that reason, I really think I have to be more careful here than almost anywhere else in the world. The sheer number of planes up here is staggering. It keeps me very motivated to stay well below 400 feet.

American by Birth, Alaskan by the grace of God!!

09-30-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
cranester

Key Veteran

Bogota, Colombia

Yeah, I was carefull enough to call the airport and find out if I could fly that high in that location , so I was not invading no ones airspace.

Hey my Bipe is coming along really nice I'll post some pics tomorrow, I borrowd some of the leading edge technology/engineering from this thread for my desing

Juan Crane

09-30-2008 Over year old.
Tritan

Senior Heliman

Sweden

Not really,
the reason in the old days to have the upper wing further forward was to make it easier for the pilot (in front seat) to get out of the plane in case of an emergency!

An other reason is that the range of the CG can be a little wider.

Also, when talking bipes, there is this interference (word?) between the upper and lower wing: the lower (white) side of the upper wing is a high pressure area while the upper (red) side of the lower wing is a low pressure area. If these two areas are to close to each other they will interfere and give you less lift. By separate them a bit this interference will be reduced some.

09-30-2008 Over year old.
Guido44

Senior Heliman

Near Chicago, Illinois

Hi Guys,

I was wondering what each one of you are using to trip your shutter buttons.

I have the camRemote and a Blip. I haven't taken the Blip out of the package yet, but I was wondering what cameras and set ups your using for the camera.

Thanks,

dan

09-30-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
cranester

Key Veteran

Bogota, Colombia

Ok here it is, self leveling camera gimbal and an AUW of 52 Oz,

What do you think? any suggestions?

Juan Crane

09-30-2008 Over year old.
Burnt Offering

Key Veteran

Winter Wonder Land, Wasilla Alaska

Looks GREAT Juan! The only thing I would change would be the stick you have your engine mounted to. I would be concerned that in might "rotate" in flight. I think I would use an extra one of your fiberglass tail booms, then run a wooden dowel through that, drill holes through it and then fasten it to the plane. This way you would have a flat surface against a flat surface, lessing the chance of that bad boy rotating on me. Anyway, get that thing in the air! Try to avoid the swamps if you can though!!

American by Birth, Alaskan by the grace of God!!

09-30-2008 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
AceBird

Elite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

Attach a vertical surface to the top and bottom wing that will support the motor. The vertical surface will give you better stability in flight and also give you the ability to yaw on a dime.

Ace
What could be more fun?

09-30-2008 Over year old.
Tritan

Senior Heliman

Sweden

I would put a diagonal tube from motor down to where your battery is to avoid any movements. Otherwise, when giving throttle the upper boom tube wants to move forward, also if you have a hard landing the lower part of the plane will get hooked up in the grass while the camera/upper boom tube wants to continue forward.

Take a look at your rear right wooden piece between the wings - it has a crack at the bottom screw ....

Just my 2 Euros.....

09-30-2008 Over year old.
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