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Kyosho Caliber-3-5-6-Series F3C-Caliber-90 > Caliber 450V
 
 
HeliK
Senior Heliman
Location: SoCal

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Here is the new C-450V. It uses 315mm blades, CCPM mixing and the caliber 90 push pull tail pitch system. Head resembles the C5 set up. Looks interesting.

http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/products/...duct_no_1=20450
05-14-2007 Over year old.
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balbs
Key Veteran
Location: Los Angeles, CA

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WOW that looks sweet. The servo layout and linkages look like it makes 90 degree connections to the swash idiot proof.

Balbs
05-14-2007 Over year old.
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Optech
Key Veteran
Location: San Diego, CA.

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Here's the Kyosho Caliber 450V page translated by Google.

Dave's gonna twitch a bit, , after all the trouble and waiting he went through to get a longer boom and belt for his 400XP.

You know, I jumped all over the EP400 when it first came out and was severely disappointed. I almost followed Dave into the XP upgrade, and now this. I guess patience does work sometimes.

Mike

Viva La Airtronics!
05-14-2007 Over year old.
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balbs
Key Veteran
Location: Los Angeles, CA

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Can you guys confirm? Seems you can either place the battery in the front or inside the frame (under the main shaft).

Balbs
05-14-2007 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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Very Interesting...Kyosho seems to be following me on the EP400 development. They seem to have listened to my suggestions on the original EP400 to make the EP400XP version, and now they seem to have followed suit with the stretch version. Perhaps I should charge them for my Research and Development work! I'd take one of these kits in return for my pioneering work. How about it, Dwight. I'll even throw in an unbiased build and flight review. [End of shameless plug!]

My stretched EP400XP currently is running Mavrikk 320 (bolt hole to tip) CF blades, and overall length is about 660 mm. Very close to the 450V specs.

I like the new frames, looks to give you a place to actually mount the radio and associated stuff, something the current XP and stock EP400 fall short on.

The CCPM setup is also a welcome addition. With THAT, that nasty pitch slider ring, the thin collective pitch wire riding up and down in the slotted MR shaft, and sliding the washout base up and down as the pitch change mechanism should be gone and the head should be very very tight with respect to absence of slop in the controls. I would expect a much more crisp and solid feel to the collective and cyclic controls.

The head looks to be a MUCH better design than that of the XP -- there is now clearance between the various linkages. If you own an XP, or read my EP400 Build thread, you'd know that the XP head had some serious linkage interference problems. This looks like a definite improvement.

The tail boom support is also a necessity. The question about putting the battery inside the frames vs up front -- I've found that with my stretched EP400XP that the additional weight of the extra tail boom length (that 15 mm tube is HEAVY) shifts the CG rearward a BUNCH. The boom support is going to exacerbate the tailward CG shift. Perhaps a reasonable upgrade to the 450V would be a smaller diameter tail boom. It can still be rigid, but the loss of weight in the tail would be advisable. If the boom support isn't a carbon tube, it should be, again to save weight. Perhaps full CF vertical and horizontal fins would be in order, as well, again to chop overall weight, and tail weight in particular.

Unless the design compensates by stretching the front-end, you're NOT going to end up putting the battery under the main shaft. You'll need the battery up front and a battery that's heavier than a TP2100s ProLite. I've found with my extended boom version that I need a battery up front that is about 25 grams heavier than the TP2100S Pro Lites to get a decent balance.

The battery being up-front is very close to the roll axis of the heli, putting the battery below the main shaft would lower the CG, perhaps making the roll rate suffer. It was really bad when the only place to put the battery was under the frames. Believe me, moving the battery weight up to where it is now makes a HUGE difference in this heli's performance.

I've not flown my stretched version lately -- the battery pack I have in it isn't up to snuff, I need one that has a higher continuous C discharge rate than the ProLites I've been using to get good performance. Scaring up another $70-$80 for another battery pack hasn't been high on my list at present.

The TP2100 Pro Lite gets VERY hot running the Just Go Fly 450TH motor with a 34-tooth pinion. And this was on a day when outside temps were in the low 60's. Hot to the point of beginning to swell a bit at the end of a 6-minute, wide-open flight.

I see that Kyosho specs the gear reduction ratio using s 32-tooth pinion. Perhaps I should drop a couple of teeth to see how the power system works with a higher motor RPM but lower head speed.

This one could be a winner. Wonder how it actually will stack up against a Trex 450 SE?

Perhaps I should have called this my EP450V-XP...



Six months ahead of Kyosho....again.

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* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
05-15-2007 Over year old.
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shesha
Veteran
Location: Kuwait

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Good bye trex, hello 450V....... about time they cmae up with something decent, it looks competitive enough to compete even against the lepton, though not even in the same class, would not be even surprised if they cmae up with something to compete with the lepton.

Now the price of the parts is all it needs to compete with the trex 450, i need to go through my spare parts for the trex before i even open the door on this one...

Zero bubble....
05-15-2007 Over year old.
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ge0santayana
Heliman
Location: Houston, TX - USA

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I love my Kyosho EP Caliber 400XP, but there's something about the 450V that just does not look right. It looks like the frame is too big for the canopy. Just my opinion...

I'll just wait till you guys build one and see what you guys think.

By the way, I like to say thank you to everyone for all the tips and help that you guys gave me me in bulding my EP Caliber 400XP. It's flies great!!
05-25-2007 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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Yes, the canopy does look like someone left it out in the rain overnight and it shrank! What would be nice is if it were one piece, or if it HAS to be two pieces, make the split vertical and glue the halves together (much like the older Heliboy canopies of the past).

The horizontal split of the EP400/XP, held together by tape is a bit on the irritating side!

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* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
05-25-2007 Over year old.
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ge0santayana
Heliman
Location: Houston, TX - USA

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Explain to me the benefits of lengthening the 400XP which is basically what Kyosho did in the 450V. Does it help maneuverability and performance? What exactly does it do?

I was always under the pretense that a smaller heli is more maneuverable and the larger you go, the slower and less agile they are. Is this correct?
05-25-2007 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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Larger rotor disk. Lighter disk loading. More stability, more lift, flies better. More responsive.

I stretched my XP and so far, it flies much better. Only problem I have right now is I need a better battery (higher continuous C rating), and about 25 grams of weight in the nose to make the balance OK.

My priorities haven't been buying better batteries right now, so I haven't flown it a whole lot since the stretch.



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* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
05-25-2007 Over year old.
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gian
Veteran
Location: AZ

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Hey, Kyosho or reps-

Got a trade-up policy for me and my sloppy c400?
06-29-2007 Over year old.
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shesha
Veteran
Location: Kuwait

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Wishful thinking....

Zero bubble....
06-29-2007 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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I updated the EP400 Build thread last week, it's time to catch this one up, too.

I've finally gotten quite a bit of time on the stretched EP400XP. At this point, the head and collective pitch design are limiting factors with this heli. Though the XP head setup is far superior to that of the original EP400, the whole collective pitch mechanism is weak. The frame mounted pitch lever, the pitch slider on the main shaft, the slotted main shaft and that wimpy pitch change wire, all terminated in the sliding washout base just don't make for an agile heli. The XP, even stretched, is a stable heli and has that big heli feel.

It rolls nicely, it flies upside down nicely, but loops are just plain bad. Loops are supposed to be dirt simple. Get some forward speed, pull back on the elevator and the heli should do a nice loop. Maybe put in a little negative on top to keep things round and even. With this heli, it seems that once it gets nearly inverted, just getting up and over to the downhill side of the loop is work.

The stretched version, though nearly the same in weight, weight distribution, power, and rotor disk area just isn't in the same league as my Trex SA when it comes to agility, maneuverability, and aerobatics. The Trex 450SA (and even my moderately upgraded three year old + Trex 450X and 450X-V2) out performs the EP400 in the aerobatic world. I think I've gone about as far as I wish with the stretched XP, it was an overall disappointment as the performance gains just weren't realized.

That being said, the 450V may be a horse of a different color. It's got CCPM head control (does away with that nasty pitch mechanism of the EP400 and XP) and the entire head has been redesigned around the larger Caliber 5 head. The pull-pull tail looks to be promising, as well. The 450V looks to have gotten rid of the features that make the EP400/XP suffer in overall performance. It may be with the EP stuff that the third time is truly a charm.

I'd like to give the 450V a shot, perhaps someday I will. But for the short term, it's not in my budget.

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* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
06-30-2007 Over year old.
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whirlyspud
Key Veteran
Location: USA

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I'm going to start building one if these in a couple days. Looks like it should be a nice little machine. Reminds me alot of the bigger calibers. I'll post some pics as it goes together.

Mike
09-11-2007 Over year old.
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RCHeliWorks
rrAdvertiser
Location: RCHeliWorks

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i should have mine tomorrow have everything waiting for it it going to be a great machine

chris
09-11-2007 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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I'm going to have to sit this one out, my recent Caliber 4 purchase used up the budget for new helis for awhile. After doing all of Kyosho's R&D on the EP400 to get them to the 450V in my EP400 Build Thread, I'll wait for the flying reports of the new 450V.

Meanwhile, my EP400XP is gathering dust, the stretch project pretty much ended its useful life. Perhaps I should shrink it back to its original state, raid the electronics, and see if there's a market for used EP400XPs.

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* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
09-11-2007 Over year old.
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Dwight
Senior Heliman
Location: West Chicago, IL

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I have posted a few pics in my gallery.

Today I hovered the machine for about 2 minutes. The very moment it lifted off you can feel the precision of the controls. I am using the Futaba 3154 digitals on all controls and a 12Z for the radio. A 12 may be overkill however the tracking on the servos is not perfect and with this radio you can make is perfect. The blades are the stock Kyosho 290mm so far but I have some Radix 325mm coming. The pull/pull system on all controls is really nice. They have included mini flybar weights for fine tuning...another nice touch!

Dwight
09-12-2007 Over year old.
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RCHeliWorks
rrAdvertiser
Location: RCHeliWorks

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mine will be here today im going to test v-blades and radix i also have the new 280 carbons for the xp im going to try

chris
09-12-2007 Over year old.
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RCHeliWorks
rrAdvertiser
Location: RCHeliWorks

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ITS HERE IM GOING HOME EARLY AND BUILD IT!!
09-12-2007 Over year old.
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ErichF
Elite Veteran
Location: Odessa, FL 33556 (Tampa Area)

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I sure wouldn't mind one of them things, myself

Nice looking little bird.
09-13-2007 Over year old.
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Kyosho Caliber-3-5-6-Series F3C-Caliber-90 > Caliber 450V
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