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Experience RC . Heli-Max . Hobby Hut

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e-Electric Conversions > Vario XLV E-conversion
 
 
Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
At last my XLV kit has arrived,
Started assembly right away and I can say this is going to be a really big electric bird !
http://gmfk.se/album_pic.php?pic_id=338
http://gmfk.se/album_pic.php?pic_id=339
http://gmfk.se/album_pic.php?pic_id=340

Recalculated the setup,
And the new one is…

Motor : Actro 40 – 4
ESC : Power Jazz 15s 200A
Accu : 12s2p 9800 mAh
I’m going to modify the original clutch bell and use it on the Actro for super smooth startups,

Estimated weight ready to fly is 12,5 kg including the 12s accu, 2 kg of LiPo:s !

as the build continues I will update this thread with some more info and pics,
and later on post vids of the test flights

/Perry
12-01-2006 Over year old.
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helivertigo
Heliman
Location: Orange,CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Possible conversion for the FRH Blackhawk?

Hi Perry;

I am very excited to see your conversion as I have been searching to see if it is possible to convert an FRH Blackhawk (http://www.frh-flightsystems.com/frameset.html) with 2 meters or longer main rotor diameter, 4 blades head and tail, roughly about 15 kg. Do you think such conversion is possible using the XLV kit? Thank you for posting your progress as it would give a lot of info for others to follow. Shawn
12-02-2006 Over year old.
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Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hi Shawn
Extremely nice scale body of the Blackhawk,
But it’s to small in scale for the XLV

The XLV mechanics is to large and don’t fit in the Blackhawk,
and the rotor shaft is very long so the rotor is going to be
to high over the body to look scale,

I think it is better to use the FRH petrol mechanics and drop in a Plettenberg Terminator on 15s or 2 Actro 40-4 on 12s LiPo depending on the gearing, ( Kontronik Power Jazz ESC )
power required should be in the 5000 Watt area or thereabouts,
4 blade rotors require a lot more power then 2 blade flybar heads
both from the engine and the swashplate servos…

Yes I will continue to post my progress on the XLV - E in this thread

/Perry
12-02-2006 Over year old.
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Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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A little update,
the tail rotor is on, and last night I had the main blades on for the first time http://www.rcheli.se/phpBB220/album_pic.php?pic_id=7246

My friends kids speculate all night if they could take a ride with it when it’s ready to fly

/Perry
12-03-2006 Over year old.
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DKTek
Veteran
Location: Melbourne, FL-USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Nice Perry.

I just got mine as well. I also got the three blade turbine head and tail set up. I'm planning on doing the two-stage Turbine conversion for the power but I'm not going to ignore the electric. Mine will eventually be a camera ship and the turbine MAY be an issue next year as a commercial product here in the US.

Any recommendations for getting 8- 10 HP from the electric set up with reasonable flight times? The three blade set up produces a lot of lift, if I have the power. 4 HP won't do it with that head as I'm told. The turbine conversion is almost $6,000 with engine. For that amount, I should be able to get what I need....right?

Here's some low res pics. The decals are from my FG MT-5, which was painted. The decals are the perfect size and look way better than the Vario decals.



Dan
12-10-2006 Over year old.
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Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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Hi Dan

As you know the 3 blade head needs a lot of power to do it’s thing good,
And to make that kind of power with electric motors you need for example a quad Actro 40-4 setup or a twin Plettenberg Terminator setup, and with the Pletty setup you will have to play with the gearing to get the right rotor rpm...

I think the turbine conversion is the way to go on your camera ship XLV, the turbine will cost less, be lighter and have longer flying times then a electric setup strong enough to do the job...

Example,
For approx 20min flying time on the quad 40-4 electric setup you need a monster 8 kg ( 17 lb ) heavy 12s 32000 mAh LiPo accu
( 4300 USD for one accu ! ! )
you probably want more then one accu right ?
Then you have the cost of four ESC:s and Actros, aprox 4000 USD for those

In conclusion,
yes it can be done with electric, but at a very high price tag...
and a weight penalty that you don’t get with the turbine setup...
thinking from a commercial payload lifting p o w

/Perry
12-10-2006 Over year old.
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rroback
Elite Veteran
Location: Irvine (UCI), Ca

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I think you should look at the new pletti predator, handles up to 12kw. You put that, and something like a 12-15s 10000mah pack, you could be there. maxamps.com has new 10,000mah cells.

Rhett..... I can't fly, but the Profi sure can.
12-11-2006 Over year old.
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Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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I looked at the Pletty Predator when I was looking for the right setup for my XLV but I fund out that the Predator has way to low Kv (volt/rpm) even at 15s LiPo for the stock gearing
( 12,63:1 )
you need to redo the gearing so you have approx 6,3:1 this means that the engine have to work harder to swing the blades at steady rpm,

with a 12 kw engine this may not be a big issue, but the amps will be high…
to get 12kw on 15s you will be at 235Amp
3,4V/cell x 15s = 51V x 235A = 11985Watt = 11,9 kw = 15,9 Hp ! !
and to get 10 Hp, ( enough power to drive the 3 blade heads I think )
3,4V/cell x 15s = 51V x 146A = 7,4 kw = 10 Hp

at 146Amp you need a reasonable large amount of mAh to
get long flight time,
say around 20000 mAh for approx 15 min flight,
and even with the new 10000 mAh cells you still need
30 of them 15s2p = 30cells
one cell 200gram ( 7 oz ) x 30 = 6 kg ( 13,2 lb ) accu

an impressive 2 kg ( 4 lb ) less then the accu for the quad Actro setup but still a lot of weight compared to the turbine setup, and if you want to carry payload you don’t want the heli itself to be to heavy to begin with
Just remember, there is another thing to keep in mind,
Vario specs say, max takeoff weight for the XLV is 20kg ( 44 lb )

/Perry
12-11-2006 Over year old.
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DKTek
Veteran
Location: Melbourne, FL-USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Wow! That's a lot of expense to be lost in weight. The turbine is still my first choice. Thank you Perry and Rhett. Maybe there is a deisel engine for the job with lots of torque and run time....time to search again. later,

Dan
12-11-2006 Over year old.
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Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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Hi Dan

It may take a little work calculating the right gearing, but you will have all the power you need and more,
to swing those big 3 blade main and tail rotor heads
good fuel economy and a coool engine sound too

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t211742p1/
see post number 2 in that thread...
( RCS / MOKI 215cc radial engine )

/Perry
12-12-2006 Over year old.
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DKTek
Veteran
Location: Melbourne, FL-USA

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Thanks perry, that is a very interesting approach. The video is cool. I wonder if the OS will do the same? Hmmm, search time.

Dan
12-15-2006 Over year old.
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DKTek
Veteran
Location: Melbourne, FL-USA

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OS is only 4 hp. Not enough oomph!
12-15-2006 Over year old.
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Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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The RCS / MOKI radial is 215cc, 13,5 hp
it will do the job nicely I think

/Perry
12-15-2006 Over year old.
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Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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Woow this heli is going to be big
http://www.rcheli.se/phpBB220/album_pic.php?pic_id=7305

my old Zoom 400 has no trouble sitting on the XLV rotor head...

/Perry
12-16-2006 Over year old.
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misskimo
Key Veteran
Location: Alaska 13 years before , mississippi for 31 y

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
hey , with the 40 series actro , 1 should fly thins bird just fine , you wont need anywhere near the HP you are stating , I bet in a hover , Geared right , hovering will be around 25 to 30 amps ,
cool project,

Team X-Era ,Team ThunderPower, Minicopter & Spartan Gyros
12-17-2006 Over year old.
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Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Hi misskimo

Yes I think so too, I’m going to fly my XLV with one Actro 40,
some of the above is calculations for a XLV camera ship with 3 blade heads on the main and tail rotors, that require a lot more power than my 2 blade head XLV

/Perry
12-17-2006 Over year old.
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misskimo
Key Veteran
Location: Alaska 13 years before , mississippi for 31 y

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
hey , my guess here , I bet you wont need more than 1100 on the head to fly DANG good , and for very smooth flights with long flight times , you can bring down the gov to around 80% of 1100 and have some great fun , Im setting up a 800 mm 3Dier Ion for this next year , 32-3 on 12 S should pull well over 4500 watts , which is plenty of power. your size might need a big motor like the 40 series
Also 15s sure sounds great to me , I have the power Jazz esc on me as well as a Neu ORK from Steve Neu to try in my XCell Razor . YEH!

Team X-Era ,Team ThunderPower, Minicopter & Spartan Gyros
12-17-2006 Over year old.
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Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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1100 rpm is way to high
I don’t need more than 840 rpm on the main rotor, according to Vario redline is 850 rpm for a 8 foot rotor disk, and the lower the better for that sweet scale blade sound

/Perry
12-18-2006 Over year old.
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misskimo
Key Veteran
Location: Alaska 13 years before , mississippi for 31 y

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dang , those are some big blades , what blades you getting ? MBlades makes some big blades , I sure like M Blades , aluminum , sure are smooth and take for ever to spool down

Team X-Era ,Team ThunderPower, Minicopter & Spartan Gyros
12-18-2006 Over year old.
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Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

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I will fly it with Vario semi symmetrical 1120mm blades ord no 416
one blade has the same length as the Bell 222 scalefuse
on my old Concept 30 !
and the tail blades are huge as well, 156mm long

/Perry
12-19-2006 Over year old.
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e-Electric Conversions > Vario XLV E-conversion
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