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CANOMOD . Experience RC . Heli-Max

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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > A123 Racing 3S 2300 Turbo Pack - 3200 RPM @ 14.4V Setting
 
 
Jon the Rooster
Elite Veteran
Location: Johns Island, Charleston, SC

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Way to Go ShellDude!!!

and one more thing "DON'T BE AFRAID!"
09-30-2006 Over year old.
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ShellDude
Elite Veteran
Location: East Coventry, PA

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Thanks a bunch guys... she is quite the cutey! Stacie and I are very proud of our latest addition.

Guess what!?!?!?

I flew my Rex today with the Turbo Module dialed in at 12V with my new Jazz.

I've got all the data compiled and boy, was it fun. HS was at around 2,800 RPM, flight lasted about 6 minutes and everything held up fine with a little surprise at the end.

I'll follow-up in a few with the details... wife needs me to run a few errands.

Shell

~~OCHC~~
http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders
09-30-2006 Over year old.
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ShellDudeElite Veteran - Location: East Coventry, PA - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Ok, here it is.

Lets just say I didn't go easy. I whipped her around quite a bit and didn't hold back until the end. I've been warned that the voltage drop-off at the end is quite abrupt... and well, you'll see that soon enough

Will start with just the basic numbers and provide some observations/conjecture for each:

Amps vs Volts


Do you see the abrupt voltage drop at the end? That wasn't anything frying. It was simply the pack/turbo module saying "times up". The end of discharge signs were very subtle, as you can see by the downward slope that started at about 310 seconds. I felt it and got her to about 10' off the ground. I was expecting the Jazz to do its normal power down but it fell off RATHER QUICKLY. I just barely had enough time to hit Throttle hold and pump the collective to get her on the ground without damage.

If I wasn't a grown man, I would've cried when first looking at this chart. The voltage sag is very evident at the 12V setting during high amp maneuvers.

The flipside is that I have a completely variable voltage setup. I can dial in my desired headspeed by selecting the voltage on the turbo module. I forgot to bring my tach out with me but my best guess is that my HS was at approximately 2,800 RPM at this setting.

Unfortunately, you pay a price for stepping up voltage, and it's in cummulative mAH, as illustrated below:

Cummulative mAH vs Watts


I got a bit over 1,260 mA out of the pack before shutdown.

I decided to include WATTS on this chart simply because I was so impressed with how much power I was able to pull. One of my peaks were at 373 watts!

The scary side of this is what the numbers would've looked like between the Turbo module and the battery pack. If you recall in my last test, I put my Eagletree between the pack and Turbo module with it dialed in at 10.8V. I really don't want to know what the numbers look like at the 12V setting. I bet they're through the roof!

Amps/Volts vs Turbo Module Temperature


I included this chart because I want folks to see how close to the limit I'm at with the current Turbo module. The core temperature of the module is a bit more than what my probe was able to capture. Post flight, I held it firmly in my hand I'm going to wager that the module was at about 130F.

It has been rumored (and I'm currently unable to either confirm or deny this) that a more robust module is in the works. When / if I learn more about this development, I promise to pass the info along.

In the meantime, this'll probably be my last published test with this setup for a while. It's been fun but I've got a couple other projects I want to focus on.

If you decide to go this route, bear in mind that A123 considers using their Turbo Module in an RC Helicopter an unsupported platform. If asked about it, they'll probably tell you flat-out to not try it, and I understand why given the nature of the end of discharge cutout... man it came quick!

Happy Flying!
Shell

~~OCHC~~
http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders
09-30-2006 Over year old.
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ShellDudeElite Veteran - Location: East Coventry, PA - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Another Test - This Time @ 10.8V

I definitely understand why A123 doesn't want to support the turbo module in a Helicopter configuration. This time I was prepared for the cutoff and once again, it came FAST.

Amps vs Volts


The turbo module does a great job of keeping the voltage up. Check out the Avg Voltage and the minute drops during amp peaks.

Cummulative mAh vs Watts


1,500 mA out of a 2,200 mA battery aint too bad considering that it didn't drop once below its rated voltage. Now if only I figure out some way to shed the extra 220 +/- grams the turbo module and M1 cells add compared to a traditional LiPo.

If you go with this configuration, time your first few flights based on your flying style. Make sure you give yourself a good 45-60 second cushion or your heli will literally cutout on you and fall from the sky.

~~OCHC~~
http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders
10-09-2006 Over year old.
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bulldogs
Elite Veteran
Location: ~OC~ ,CA USA

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SHell great work ....

~TEAM OCHC~
A strong man stands up for himself a STRONGER man will stand up for others.
10-09-2006 Over year old.
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ShellDude
Elite Veteran
Location: East Coventry, PA

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Thanks bulldogs! Between the two tests (12.8 and 10.8) I didn't notice a significant difference in HS.

The data shows that the more you try to step up voltage, the less effective the module is. I really can't say I saw much difference between the 12V and 10.8V settings, except a minute increase in runtime at 10.8V.

I still think the plain old 3S config is perfect for a newbies or someone wishing to just putter around

Shell

~~OCHC~~
http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders
10-09-2006 Over year old.
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bulldogs
Elite Veteran
Location: ~OC~ ,CA USA

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3s is the way to go for a long time one of our guys still flys the 10c apex packs and he can 3d The CRAP out of his rex. So i guess it comes down to how deep your wallet is and how good you are on the collective. I think John who flys the 10c packs at our club is by far the best collective flyer ive seen now he is not KILLING the sticks all the time but man is he smooth and trully a great flyer... He puts alot less stress on his packs...

Thanks again Shell for all the hard work


~TEAM OCHC~
A strong man stands up for himself a STRONGER man will stand up for others.
10-09-2006 Over year old.
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sailor1000
Heliman
Location: Belgium

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just flew my rexy with a 4cell A123 pack, all over weight is 880gr
recorded 29 min of data on eagle tree, a lot off landing and fine tuning radio was involved, but power was there till the end.

Not yet an acrobat but now I can charge them faster than I can run them down ;-) there could be some progress on the horizon.

thanks for keeping me motivated shelldude!! and congrats on the beauty.
10-10-2006 Over year old.
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ShellDude
Elite Veteran
Location: East Coventry, PA

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A123 actually recommends running a 3S config and going with a bigger pinion. Since their batteries can take more abuse you don't have to worry about one going puffy on you.

I've yet to swap out pinions but the math tells me that I should be able to get around 2,500 RPM if I go with a 15T.

The AUW difference between 3S native and 3S turboed (I don't see the point running it over 10.8V) in my setup is 907g vs 997g.

Sailor, please dump your complete setup as I'd like to know where the 27g + the weight of another M1 went on your bird

Shell

~~OCHC~~
http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders
10-10-2006 Over year old.
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sailor1000
Heliman
Location: Belgium

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Well the reason why i started with the 4cell is easy, was a bit short on time and, the Dewalt pack made it easy for me just using
a 4 cell, no motor ore pinion to change, just solder balancing tabs and the power leads, rap it in shrink foil and charging with the lipodapter+.
The weight off the 4cell pack comes to 300gr, and holds power nicely
but I have to tell it is a starter setup, still have to learn a lot.
At least I dont have to worry to much anymore about the explosive batteries. so far i think i can easy get 15min+ flytime on one pack 2200+/- headspeed and the batteries give me more punch than the most expensive lipos I have.
10-10-2006 Over year old.
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sailor1000
Heliman
Location: Belgium

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the t-rex is a 450cde with the 3500 kv align motor and a 35Amp phoenix, also has a bulky lipoguard and al the wires for the eagle tree including the optical rpm (that didn't work this time), O I forget I even has training balls. the A123 cells go 2by2 on the bottom.Feels heavy but my other t-rex (power setup,carbon and all the bling etc,....) will have to wait till i program the dx6 reciever for it. just cant get those glithes away. But I Sure would like to see it go on the A123's
10-10-2006 Over year old.
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ShellDude
Elite Veteran
Location: East Coventry, PA

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I guess that explains some of the weight. I'm using the CF HDE frame, all metal everything, and the Jazz 40-6-18 does weigh it down a smidge too.

Wow, so you've got that 4S pack in a brick config... I'm assuming it rests pretty much level with your LG? That's the main reason why I broke up the triangular 3S brick. Not sure how else you could configue a 4S setup though.

Please post some FDR data for us. I'd love to see your session data, even if it's just the .FDR file

Shell

~~OCHC~~
http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders
10-10-2006 Over year old.
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ShellDude
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Location: East Coventry, PA

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Here we go again...

My UPS driver dropped off an "updated" turbo module for me this week. A123 has increased the capacity and built shutdown logic into it when the module itself exceeds 100C (that's 220F!)

Might be able to play with it a bit today.... should be fun.

Shell

~~OCHC~~
http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders
11-04-2006 Over year old.
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ShellDude
Elite Veteran
Location: East Coventry, PA

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Updated Turbo Module

Well, they did a bit more than just build in a thermal cutoff and up the current capacity.

I flew today with the new turbo module dialed in at 12V and the performance was insane.

I'm awaiting approval from A123 before posting the actual data. They were nice enough to swap out my old module for the new one so that I could complete these tests.

~~OCHC~~
http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders
11-05-2006 Over year old.
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ShellDudeElite Veteran - Location: East Coventry, PA - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Volts & Amps


Cummulative mAh & Watts


Turbo Module Temperature


Granted, it's no longer summer here, but the new module runs much cooler. Feel free to compare these charts to my previous ones at 12V.

The biggest improvement IMHO, is that they've removed the sudden cutoff. Voltage drop is much more gradual now.

Shell

~~OCHC~~
http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders
11-05-2006 Over year old.
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hotgluedheli
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

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Does the new module look any different? What headspeed were you getting at 12v?

I crash therefore I am
11-06-2006 Over year old.
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ShellDude
Elite Veteran
Location: East Coventry, PA

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The new module looks exactly like the old one. I even dropped them a line to confirm it when I opened the package.

Ya know, I was too excited to be able to just get out and fly yesterday (weather had been horrible here) and didn't get a chance to clock the HS. I'm going to wager it was in the 2700-2800 range using a 13T pinion on the Himax 2815-3000 (16/15/3).

I'm playing hookie from work today so I might just venture out and fly some more if I can sneak past the Mrs. I'll be sure to bring my tach out with me.

Shell

~~OCHC~~
http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders
11-06-2006 Over year old.
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caseyjholmes
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Location: SoCal

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Keep up the good work shell

Every detail counts!
11-06-2006 Over year old.
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ShellDude
Elite Veteran
Location: East Coventry, PA

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Headspeed #s

10.8V - 1 Light = 2,790 RPM
12.0V - 2 Lights = 2,910 RPM
13.2V - 3 Lights = 3000 RPM
14.4V - 4 Lights = 3210 RPM

I just about cr@pped myself having to hang over the heli with it at 14.4V to tach it.

My recorded 11.1V (typical LiPo) HS for this motor / pinion combo is 2,400 RPM.

~~OCHC~~
http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders
11-06-2006 Over year old.
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T.J.
Veteran
Location: St Louis by six flags, Missouri

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So how long before they start making packs for both the Trex 450&600?

It seem like many would be interested in there product. By the way nice graphs and testing.

T.J.
11-06-2006 Over year old.
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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > A123 Racing 3S 2300 Turbo Pack - 3200 RPM @ 14.4V Setting
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