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Zenoah gas motor tuning.

daggit

Elite Veteran

Claremont, MN

Greetings,
I have an Xcell gasser camera ship. I was wanting to improve the performance of the motor because she has a tail glitch that I thought was engine tuning related. I did a search here on RunRyder on the subject. I found this site which I think is right on the money and perfect if you are looking for ultimate performance from your gas heli. http://ronlund.com/bmeador_gas.htm I feel this subject was worth bringing back to the top for you guys with gasser helis.

I have a question though. The reason I think the above metioned link is right on the money is because the article states that the gasser likes load on the motor. My Xcell gasser is rock solid under load while climbing or fighting a head wind. It is in a hover that the tail glitches some and during the descent the tail will drift sometimes.

I use a JR 550t gyro with 8700 servo. I am running 32:1 gas mix with the throttle servo adjusted according to Xcell instruction manual. I have less than 2 gallons run through this ship, and have shot 9 rolls of 35mm film with great results.

I guess what I'm asking here is whether there is a shortcut to what is explianed in the above link. The road to ulitmate gasser performance looks like work to me I don't need ultra performance for 3D. Can I just lean out the gas or carb settings to make it smoother?

Any suggestions out there?

11-23-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
vario

rrAdvertiser

Taxachussetts

We have actually seen now that if you replace the carb on your G23 with the new carb which comes on the G230, there is a marked improvement in the way the motor runs and tunes.
Joe

11-23-2002 Over year old.
daggit

Elite Veteran

Claremont, MN

I wondered...

so I checked the sticker on my motor, it says G230PUH so I would assume I already have that carb correct?

BTW... The carb settings are pretty close to the way I got it. I have leaned it maybe 3/4 to 1 turn so far.

11-23-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
vario

rrAdvertiser

Taxachussetts

Sounds like it. Are you using the Amsoil? That needle setting is too lean i believe.
Joe

11-23-2002 Over year old.
daggit

Elite Veteran

Claremont, MN

using Yamalube

shows what I know about gassers, I would have leaned it out more

I AM referring to the High speed needle. Low speed and Idle have not been touched because it Idles great!

11-23-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
ddavison

Veteran

Brownsville, Pennsylvania

Screw both needles in all the way, noting how much it takes on both, then back them back out to their present position. Let us know what they are set at. Yamalube works OK, Amsoil is better, I am running 64/1 now. If you have had the Gasser for awhile it has the older carb, which will work but is difficult to get set. The new one has the choke built into it. If yours is in the aircleaner it is the older one. Bill M. has been using the new one and is gettin good results. I just put one on the MA gasser and am getting it set right. I took it off of my Vario benzine mechs. and have ordered a replacment from the local Lawn mower repair shop. To mount it on the gasser I had to remove the choke assy and reverse it to keep the throttle linkage in the same position as it is in the way of the bellcrank.

DaveDavison,GasGob,WhiplashGas,Spectra,JRXG11MV,12X

11-23-2002 Over year old.
daggit

Elite Veteran

Claremont, MN

ok

I have a choke lever on the aircleaner.

I turned the high needle in (clockwise) and it went 1 1/4 turns till it stopped.

I turned the low end needle in the same way and it went 1 turn till it stopped.

Then I set them back to where they were.

What do you think?

11-23-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
daggit

Elite Veteran

Claremont, MN

If i decided too....

Where would I order the new carb and how would I decribe what I wanted (part number?)

11-23-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
ddavison

Veteran

Brownsville, Pennsylvania

New carb is WT603. Needles look close to what I was running on the old carb(just checked it high 11/8+, low 7/8+). What head speed are you running ? What length and weight of blades ? Symetrical or Semisymetrical airfoil ? What fuel/oil ratio ?

DaveDavison,GasGob,WhiplashGas,Spectra,JRXG11MV,12X

11-23-2002 Over year old.
rchelial

rrMaster

12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

Walbro makes it, any lawnmower shop can get it. Part #WT603-1. The only Yamalube I could find was semi-synthetic. I was not happy with that. The Amsoil 100:1 is much cleaner running. Your oil content is too rich. When you run Amsoil, at say 60:1, you actually run more gas, which means more power, richer, smoother running, cooler running. This concept is the tough one to get. Gassers are different than glow. The extra oil is just pushed out the exhaust, doing nothing. Re-read Bill Me's stuff and get some Amsoil! Also read here:http://www.rotory.com/ubbthreads/po...?Cat=&Board=ms1

11-23-2002 Over year old.
daggit

Elite Veteran

Claremont, MN

I am running...

blades are 720 Symetrical, oil mix 32:1 semi-synthetic Yamalube. Blade wieght and headspeed unknown. Blades came with my heli and I don't even know what kind they are, but they are black and squared off on the ends instead of having usual rounded ends. Don't know if that gives you any clue. Blades seem kind of on the heavy side compared to another set of white carbons I have (TG) but they have a little more surface area too (I need the lift).

Thanks for the tips guys. At least I have a clue what to try now. Next move will definately be to try the Amsoil in a lighter oil content w/gas. I've heard that quite a bit now in the forums. Not really that anxious to swap carbs yet, though I may check some prices just in case.

11-23-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
daggit

Elite Veteran

Claremont, MN

DavidH

I bought the Xcell gas graphite heli brand new from Airfoilhelicam this summer. I built it myself straight out of the baggies MA has worked with Airfoil and tailor made a kit for carrying the extra camera cargo. Among the included upgrades were aluminum head, prebuilt extended tail boom, heavier mainshaft, and maybe the motor? (I didn't know it was different)

11-23-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
daggit

Elite Veteran

Claremont, MN

ok

fan and pull start are not incorperated on mine. I am pretty new at heli's and even newer at gassers. I don't know diddly about the Zenoah line. I'm sure you probably know more about what I have then I do

11-23-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
ddavison

Veteran

Brownsville, Pennsylvania

Sounds like the stock Z23 motor, it will work fine. I have a friend who does aerial photo's, and he has three gassers(all stock) and they do Ok. A tip learn is how to read your plug that will tell you how the carb settings are. Checking the plug and top of piston for carbon is an indicator of too much oil or to rich mixture.
The low end needle is real sensitive, only use little movements in adjusting it. The high needle is less sensitive.
Keeping load on the engine by keeping the headspeed down will keep it smooth. Work on getting the engine to run consistantly then work on adjusting the pitch and throttle to get the hover and climb to where you like them.

DaveDavison,GasGob,WhiplashGas,Spectra,JRXG11MV,12X

11-23-2002 Over year old.
Billme

Elite Veteran

MS

David,
They are referring about the use of the Wt603 carb on the RC230…I use this carb now on my Xcell with the old PUH engine…
First off, I do not setup my needles like the instructions say, although I’m with-in the operating range of the factory specks…
If you have read my article on setting the ATV’s, these are good for scale and camera work, but I will add that if anyone interested in 3D should set the throttle atv’s 15 to 20% higher than the pitch atv instead of lower….
After talking with Curtis on this at Mayday, I’ve decided that the 3D setup on the throttle is best for all operations so as to allow the curve to provide very little movement in the hover at normal, and a more easy adjustable curves in idleup..

I can only tell you how I have my Xcell setup at the present…I run Amsoil at 85:1 running 87 Oct…. When I run Camper fuel, I run 64:1 (2 ounces), Since I’ve been running this new carb, It atomizes the fuel so good, that I may have to add more oil, because the combustion is too good now, hehee…This is the reason I have told folks when we were running the 167a, not to run the air filter…I knew the problem was atomization, and needed more airflow…I just didn’t know how bad it was until I put the new carb on

I run my high needle at 1 1/8…I start out on the low at 1 3/8’s, and never go below 1 ¼.
I adjust the hover with the low only….I do not worry about idle, it takes care of itself, if you adjust hover correctly.. Note that when setting up the same atv’s high, and low on the throttle, and getting your 90 deg point correct, is only a calibration procedure. You may have to raise the idle with the low stick atv a little, if your idle trim is at the top, and its still not idling because of the RICH setting…This is the reason I say concern yourself with the hover only with the low needle during hover. If you correct the idle with the needle, then you screw up your hover setting, and will be to lean every time….Simply adjust the trim to make it idle

Setting your throttle mechanically on the Xcell…I make sure I have no sub trim, and in default settings on the throttle curve… Make sure the arm is straight down at half stick. With the rod on, I look at the carb from the top of the machine…Using the rod as a line, I then use the carb arm with its ball drawing an imaginary line between the ball on the arm, and the center axis of the arm…I use this line, and the rod to make the 90 deg point, with equal movement each side of this 90 deg point…
This will help your tail wag if your calibration is off, and keep you from leaning to much on the lowend to get rid of it..

I strongly recommend the use of the Wt 603 on this engine , with this setup.. It has made my machine a gear ripper..

I see now why some guys running this engine with my setup got some build up because of the 167A...We live and learn

Regards,
Bill Meador

11-24-2002 Over year old.
daggit

Elite Veteran

Claremont, MN

167A...

forgive my inexperience but is the 167A the carb I have on mine (most likely)?

11-24-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
ddavison

Veteran

Brownsville, Pennsylvania

Yes, the carb is the 167

DaveDavison,GasGob,WhiplashGas,Spectra,JRXG11MV,12X

11-24-2002 Over year old.
daggit

Elite Veteran

Claremont, MN

you are clear to take off....

Ok, been a while since we hashed over this issue but ...the weatherman is promising 50 degree weather this weekend!!

My gasser has led a sheltered life over the winter. I have installed the Wt603 carb. I set up the throttle mechanics as instructed with the throttle half open when the servo arm is 90 degrees and the throttle arm 90 degrees (50% of carb travel). My high needle is at 1 1/8 and starting out on the low at 1 3/8’s Planning on running a conservative 50:1 ratio Amsoil mix.

Anyone out there have any last minute tips before test flights begin?

.

03-11-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
Billme

Elite Veteran

MS

Yes, cut your oil to 64:1.. It will run better

03-12-2003 Over year old.
daggit

Elite Veteran

Claremont, MN

advice noted .... and probably taken


.

03-12-2003 Over year old.
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Zenoah gas motor tuning.

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