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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > What gets more flight time per dollar, electric or gas?
 
 
Chief_Leavitt
Heliman
Location: Sanford, NC

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have not purchased a raptor or a t-rex. I am very worried about selecting to right heli. I would like one that has max flight time. So far I am leaning toward gas powered, it seems easier to gas and go then to sink more cash into batteries and chargers.

On the other hand even with gas you still have to have batteries for you servos! Damn just can't win.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Current bird: Blade CX
Total spent on replacement parts: $110
Tail in hover : solid
Nose in hover : not good

Excuse me while I whip this out!
05-03-2006 Over year old.
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Rcer22
Veteran
Location: Somewhere In The Adirondack Mountains

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have a Raptor 30 V2 and before I put the 37 in it I was able to fly it for about 25 minutes with the header tank still full.
If that's of any help to you.
05-03-2006 Over year old.
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jake26
Senior Heliman
Location: central cali

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		glow or elec

i would have to lean more towards the elec. espically if u havnt mastered nose in yet just blades alone u will end up paying twice as much fora set of rappy blades compared to blades on a rex and then theres the price of decent servos for the raptor....(ouch!) whereas for the rex are reasonibly cheap

It's not gay if you beat them up afterwards!
05-03-2006 Over year old.
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spaceman spiff
Key Veteran
Location: Tucson

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		If you are looking for cheap practice nothing beats a simulator.
05-03-2006 Over year old.
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squid1
Veteran
Location: Cubbington, Warwickshire, United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I once calculated that it cost around £1 a flight for either my Rappy 50 or 30, the difference being the ammount of flight time, moderate head speeds yeild around 17 minutes on the 50 and around 22 minutes on the 30. Over on that side of the pond it would probably cost around $1 a flight depending on the nitro content you use, I use 10%
Flight pack for a T-Rex is probably around $70, flight time various according to motor selection, but say 10-15 minutes, you need around 3 batteries to keep you going for any kind of reasonable time and a lipo charger.

Personally i appreciate that the crash cost of T-Rex is lower, but i dont think it is a good machine to learn on, the one i flew was far too sensitive and all over the place, sure it could be soften up but i dont someone who wants to learn needs to end up tweaking the machine to make it fly right, the Rappy 30 flys good out of the box if the instructions are followed
05-03-2006 Over year old.
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jDracer
Heliman
Location: South San Francisco C.A.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I learned on a blade CX then got the T-Rex SE then now a raptor 50SE. I fly my T-rex alot more than my raptor 50. I love my 50 but gas cost 30 bucks for a gallon of 20% which can only last about 2 weekends. I spend more time cleaning my 50 after a day at the park, its sooo dam oily to bring it in the house.

I fly my T-rex every day even at work becasue is so easy to just plug in the battery and go. 3 battery packs is all you need for a good run in. The T-rex is actually a very very stable heli, so don't be intemidated about it.
05-03-2006 Over year old.
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PanX
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens , Greece

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		from my experience (2 electrics one R50) the overall cost per flying time is much much lower for the Rappy.. With Raptor is NO need to crash to learn... saying it in an alternative way: CRashing in NOT an option just bad luck. With electrics crashing is a part of the learning experience (at least )

I have 4 lipos that cost around 250 Euros (over 300$) for 90 tanks on R50 i paid 8X22= 176 Euros (FF, nose in and loops and rolls till now no crash).

I never fly Trex more than 10 batteries without a crash and i manage the first survival loops after 8 months The overall cost of Trex to achieve that perfomance its way up that of two Rappy kits.

So IMO Trex is not the way to LEARN helis.

good luck

P.S. The only "drawback" for rappy is that you have to have a dedicated place to fly, a car to go there, more time etc. etc.

Panos, SV1COX
http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/pbog/
05-03-2006 Over year old.
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Chief_Leavitt
Heliman
Location: Sanford, NC

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks for the input

That is a good point about the e-helis being able to fly anywhere. It would be more time costly to have to drive out to a field just to fly. In the end it looks like I will end up buying at least one of each.

Excuse me while I whip this out!
05-04-2006 Over year old.
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lorenkb
Heliman
Location: Seattle, Washington

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I'd say your best flight time per dollar is Reflex flight sim, or compareable simulator (I've heard Clearview is great, and cheap.)

That aside, electrics WILL be cheaper in the long run. Gas is much cheaper in the short term. I'm going to have to disagree with PanX about crash costs. If you are spending enough time on the sim, both the Raptor and TREX should have the same crash cost: NONE. If you do dumb thumb it in, you can have the TREX up in the air with upgrades for the price of a Raptor crash (assuming you are flying carbon blades).

I currently fly a Raptor 50 and a TREX, and I couldn't do without either one. I wouldn't wish learning on a TREX upon anyone though, your reaction time has to be better on the micros. I got used to it quickly, but my first flights with the TREX made me feel like an ametuer all over again.

Loren

Between Helis and Computers I'm broke. But hey, my computer can kick your computer's a$$
05-04-2006 Over year old.
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w.pasman
Elite Veteran
Location: Netherlands

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The sim comes first
Then I think generally the smaller the heli the cheaper the flying per minute. How about those $69 toy helis

A gasser has really cheap fuel but generally they are large and expensive helis. You also need to count wear and crash costs.
05-04-2006 Over year old.
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PanX
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens , Greece

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		i believe that

Quote 
the e-helis being able to fly anywhere.


its not so true.. yes they can hover everywhere.. but to fly them.. and to learn first 3D tricks you need a field about the same size you fly a glow one. But you have not concerns about noise issues.

i strongly recomend to buy a rappy first and then move to Trex. But its only my recomendation, i start, like you, with a electric (M24)move to R50 and then to Trex.

I am very happy with the Rappy and deep in love with my Trex but Trex cost till now as my fully upgraded Rappy and i still keep crashing it. Maybe its me the pilot .. but you ask opinions


good luck again

Panos, SV1COX
http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/pbog/
05-04-2006 Over year old.
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Tuckster
Heliman
Location: Mansfield - England

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I started on ECO 8. Not even Lipo or Brushless but still cost a lot in terms of batteries as you need 6 - 7 sets and I found some batteries life shortened if not taken very good care off.

Got fed up with hassle of charging 6 sets of batteries. Motors need replacing or maintence. Decided cost of going Lipo + Brushless would buy a lot of fuel!!! Went Nitro never looked back.............

Nitro not cheap but at least fill up and keep going until tx/rx battery low. Even then keep a spare Rx battery and get long flying sessions.

As for crashing - not crashed by Rappy yet!!!

XTR or other sim = Absolutely!!!!! I learnt nose-in on Sim, took some guts to try it 1st time for real but it was the same as in the sim

I get approx 20 mins flight per tank on Raptor 50 with TT50 Pro engine with basic flying around.
05-04-2006 Over year old.
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Luis104
Senior Heliman
Location: Caracas / Venezuela

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
both the Raptor and TREX should have the same crash cost


I have to disagree, I have a T-rex V1, and a Raptor30; and I´ve crashed boths. Trex replacement parts are extremley cheap (even some upgrades) and usually you get 2 or more different replacement parts in a single pack. In a raptor you won´t get the same number of pieces for the same price. I´m not trying to say, raptor it´s a expensive heli; Raptor 30/50 are the cheapest in it´s size, and the best way to learn.

Chief_Leavitt:

Get a Raptor, you´ll love it...!!! you´ll get more satisfaction

Girls and RC Helicopters are dangerous...!!! but we need them...!!!
05-04-2006 Over year old.
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Rafael23cc
Key Veteran
Location: Junction City, KS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I can't believe that you guys are daring to compare a Trex and a Raptor as far as learning. If you try to compare them for cost is one thing, but DO NOT compare them for learning.

NO MICRO HELI is good for learning!!! Maybe the toys that they are selling now, one of those with twin rotors... may be good for learning, but what about servos? what about frequency control? what about control throw adjustment? You get nothing with those toys.

The best description that I have heard in a long time of the differences between a 30 size and a micro heli....

Take a broom and balance it on your hand, fairly easy, right? that is like trying to fly a 30 size nitro / electric machine.

Now take a pencil and try to balance it on your hand. How hard is it? How fast your reflexes need to be? That is like trying to fly a micro heli, similar to the Trex.

On my Raptor 50, At about 8 ounces per flight I get approximately 16 flights per gallon of 30% fuel. I can get magnum fuel at $18 per gallon or cheaper. If my math is correct, it costs me $1.125 per flight.

I might need correction here, but i believe that the service life of a Lipo battery is somewhere between 300 and 500 cycles. Right? Assuming 500 cycles an $80 battery is supposed to give you approximately 500 flights. Not counting the price of the chargers, balancers or any of the other related "stuff" that i'm not familiar with yet, then the price per flight comes down to $0.16. But take into consideration that you will need more than one battery to have fun with a Trex, or any other electric helicopter, and the price starts going up.

Rafael

Keep your feet on the ground, but your eyes on the sky.
05-04-2006 Over year old.
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Luis104
Senior Heliman
Location: Caracas / Venezuela

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I´m 100% agree with you Rafael23cc

Girls and RC Helicopters are dangerous...!!! but we need them...!!!
05-04-2006 Over year old.
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Barney
Key Veteran
Location: Inverness Scotland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		raptor 30/50 or equivelant electric..It's got to be the Raptor I.C's by a mile.....

for a days flying you would need at least 3 lipo's + 2 chargers + a battery to charge it all with. Initial cost will be higher too to than the I.C version

Factor in a couple crashes where it's quite possible to squish one of your nice new lipo's..And It's a no brainer...
05-05-2006 Over year old.
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SPB
Elite Veteran
Location: Athens - Greece

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Everyone that tolds you to get a sim for practice have given the best advise so far.

Then go with a glow heli. Don't bother with electrics yet. Even if battery technology progresses a lot is not yet at a level to substitute glow engines.

TRex is a nice little heli but I bought it and sold it a couple of months later. DEFFINETELY not a heli to learn.

Someone mentioned above that Trex is better because the repair cost is lower. What he is not counting is how much times you'll have to crash the TRex in order to learn. It's twitchy and very sensitive since it doesn't habe the inertia of a bigger machine. Otherwise Raptors' cost is very low as well. Just use wood blades for the initial stages and you are done.


Sotiris
myhelis.com Flying Team
05-05-2006 Over year old.
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Luis104
Senior Heliman
Location: Caracas / Venezuela

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
Someone mentioned above that Trex is better because the repair cost is lower. What he is not counting is how much times you'll have to crash the TRex in order to learn. It's twitchy and very sensitive since it doesn't habe the inertia of a bigger machine. Otherwise Raptors' cost is very low as well.


Repair cost it´s important when you are learning, It´s impossible to learn without chashing; even more with a T-rex, as you say; it´s a very twitchy and very sensitive heli, making it a very hard to learn heli. I´m using Shogun paddles in my T-rex, and it make´s it a more stable heli and less sensitive. But for me, the T-rex it´s a practice or trainning heli to fly near the house. As I sayd before, a Raptor it´s the best way to learn, it gives more satisfaction in flight and it´s the cheapest glow heli in the market.

If I have to choose only one, I´ll choose the Raptor

Girls and RC Helicopters are dangerous...!!! but we need them...!!!
05-05-2006 Over year old.
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Teodoro
Heliman
Location: Mexico City

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I know what I will just say will be controversial but here it goes. I have just graduated from the hover learning curve, which I have done using a Raptor, a Shogun and a Trex. That is to say I cannot credit any single helicopter as the one with which I learend to fly. I did it using the three of them, and I have just got to say you will learn using either a micro electric or a glow heli.

Yes the downside to electric micro helis is that since their mass is much lesser than that of a .50 size glow heli, they feel more nervous and you have to work harder to stay ahead of the heli. the advantage is that you won't have to worry about engine tuning.

If you don't have an instructor who will make sure everything is setup correctly, in your heli and that the engine mixture is just right, and all the setup will be solely on your shoulders (as it happened to me) an electric heli will be easier for you as you won't have to mess with engine mixture, which can be a dark art if you have no experience working with glow engines. At least that's what I have experienced. With electric helis you plug and go, whereas with a glow heli you could get very frustrated trying to get the engine to run reliably.

Another advantage of a micro heli is that it will let you hovere anywhere, whereas a glow you need to go to your flight club with all the support equipment. So unless you have all the time in the world to spend on your hobby an electric may be more convenient.

In the end, I think that if you have the assistance from an instructor a glow is the way to go, if you don't mind paying a higher bill, as a micro electric will be cheaper over the long run.

Obsession is a measure of commitment
05-05-2006 Over year old.
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EKIM
Veteran
Location: Long Island New York

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have both a Rappy 50 and a trex SE so I'll throw in my 2 cents.

performance/stability: the 50 is more stable than the rex because of its size. you can also fly higher because you can still see it. however, for a micro the rex is incredibly stable if setup properly. I love and fly both often.

Where to fly: The rex gets this catagory because you can fly just about anywhere. And its plug and play. When I fly my 50 I have to drag everything out to the huge field which is a pain. so the rex sees more flight time than the 50 just because its more convient.

Fuel costs and flight times: about 15 min per tank. spending $25 per gallon of nitro fuel here and there is alot easier to manage compared to dumping almost $450 for a 3 battery,1 balancer, 1 decent lipo charger, and power supply setup. I get about 8minutes per battery. And you also run the risk of destroying the battery in a crash.

Repair costs: Average crash on the 50 is around 60-100 bucks
Average crash with the rex is around 40 bucks. (plan on replacing alot of servo gears if you get the SE rex)

so I look at it this way, if you live near a huge field and you don't mind carrying a flight box, get a Rappy 50. its cheaper and performs better, but its intimidating when you first start flying. If flying space is an issue and you have a few extra bucks to throw around, get the rex.

They can both be setup to learn on but the 50 is a better beginner copter compared to the rex.

Total cost on each without crash parts and tx:
Raptor 50: 1000-1200
trex SE: 1500-1700 (includes batteries, charger, etc.)

*******Mike********
05-05-2006 Over year old.
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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > What gets more flight time per dollar, electric or gas?
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