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Scorpion Power System . RCHover . HeliDirect

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e-E-Flite Blade MSR CP CX MCX 400-3D > For every1 getting ready to upgrade from CX to CP =)
 
 
Cybinary
Senior Heliman
Location: The Colony, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Like some of the other people I have talked to on this board I have quickly out grown my BCX. I decided to upgrade to the BCP but I didn't want to buy a BCP right now with the BCPP coming out right around the corner.

So, to tide me over until the BCPP comes out I decided to practice up on a sim, while continuing to have fun with my BCX

I found this great sim for people who are econimical challenged, like me. Its called ClearView (Im sure some have already heard of it). I have been learning alot on it. The plus to it is that someone has made a BCP model for it. Links for it all are below the pics.
If your just getting into this hobby then Clearview is a godsend since it doesn't require you to spend money on a Computer TX just yet. ClearView will allow you to practice flying with a USB Gamepad, this is almost identical to a Tx (it has two joysticks like a Tx) and only cost around $20. With the cost of the simulator at $30, you can be practicing on the computer for $50. Compair that to $200 for hi-end sim, and $200 for middle of the road Computer TX and you'll see the price difference!



ClearView RC Simulator Home Page

Ken's RC Simulator Page with Extra Models and Locations for ClearView
04-07-2006 Over year old.
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walter23
Senior Heliman
Location: calgary ab

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I got clearview before my blade CP and you're right, it's a great simulator for those of us who don't want to spend $300.

I've played with reflex XTR in the hobbyshop and it's a bit more realistic, but clearview is not too shabby - much better than FMS. In FMS the helicopters fly like, I dunno... balloons, or boats. Way too stable.

---
Another blade CP first-time heli owner.
04-07-2006 Over year old.
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aczakka
Senior Heliman
Location: Connecticut

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I got G2 for $100
04-07-2006 Over year old.
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Alan K
Heliman
Location: Santa Rosa, CA - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Has anyone tried out the PRE-Flight Blade Edition simulator?

--Alan
04-07-2006 Over year old.
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Cybinary
Senior Heliman
Location: The Colony, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Walter, I've got a question for you then. Have you tried out the Blade CP model thats available for download? How does it compaire to the real thing?

It seems to fly like the ones at my LHS but I've never been on the controls so I've nothing to compaire it to besides my BCX. Whats your opinion of how close the two are?

Alan: I havn't heard of any1 using the blade sim, I would be curious as well to see how good it is.

EDIT: Alan, I found the Pre-Flight web site and downloaded a demo of it. Not at all impressed! ClearView looks so much better and it seems more relisitic than Pre-Flight. Pre-flight should be compaired to FMS, but FMS is free! Hope this helps.
04-07-2006 Over year old.
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400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I'm comparing both to AFPD. As said earlier, Pre-flight demo is dated '03 and if that's their demo, I don't care to spend 70 bones on the Blade CP version...

Clearview 4.35 was rather nice, working with my parallel-ppjoy Walkera 35 TX fine. I flew the one plane then the Trex. Plane physics are really quite excellent. Heli physics a bit under that, but very useable for learning (leaps above any heli sim under $100 I've seen), and the good gfx are gravy, ability to put you own panoramic scenes is nice (I know Preflight has it, but... I even liked the built in model editor, but... doesn't matter with that demo). And Clearview is compat with all the sceneries avail period (I believe you need to setup collision on some), with a ton of models already made. Seems well worth the $30 even tho I have AFPD, I think I'll buy it on the models for it alone, the heli-physics aren't perfect, but by no means anything to laugh at (sorry FMS/Preflight). Even comes with a XRB Lama (when you pay). One could easily change that to CX (I have a K-27 & Lama2 both using Lama2 coax heads so I couldn't map the .jpg file).

When you venture outside things change drastic anyway no matter the sim (my Shogun/Trex were very accurate in feel on AFPD, but I still crashed in real life). Obviously everyone's looking for same thing, closer to real thing.

I'm also interested in how the BladeCP model feels. Altho I looked at its mapping.jpg file and the mappings (photos) of the blade & NiMH pack are very photo-realistic and the params.txt file has reasonable throttle/pitch/governor settings for the blade. I'd think it'd be fine (basing this on flying the Trex450 on Clearview vs other sims). I think I'll digi-pic my Honeybee CP2 and map it, just for accuracy sake

EDIT: Don't forget the lifetime new versions with Clearview, kinda nice for 30 bones and it's a nice sim already. I think they did a fine job for that price, JMO. If you practice on it, you'd save the $30 in parts.
04-07-2006 Over year old.
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Cybinary
Senior Heliman
Location: The Colony, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		400HeliPilot:
Thanks for the input...I have been practicing nose-in and nose-out hovers on the CP in ClearView and it is a very toucy bird! I totaly agree with you that it doesn't matter how many hours of simming you do, reality is still very different! I just hope to save a few blades by practicing up on the sim before I get the BCPP

I did play with the lama a little bit. It should be too hard to change out the mapping on it to the CX, I may do that since I have a little experience in photoshop =). That Lama in Clearview flys almost identical to the RL CX I have, LOL.
04-07-2006 Over year old.
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400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Cybinary:
Thanks so much for pointing out this sim and model of the Blade CP to me. I've just bought it & simply can not put it down, it's great. The Blade CP model is great; altho I do change cyclic gain from 40% to 20% under Easy Model Setup, almost dead on like my real model, terrific!

I need to figure out how to HH lock the tail like the Trex model, as that's what I have on mine. I set 25% dynamic zoom and it's great. I can fly no better in the sim than I can in real life, very nice! I can forward circle and side-roll. Only sim I'll use now...

I can't wait to digi-pic my backyard for a custom panorama with collision objects. And skin the blade to a HBee CP2 maybe, heck it's so nice I'll probably leave it. The XRB Lama flies great too, definately needs to be made into a CX simply because the CX looks so much better.

Thanks again
04-08-2006 Over year old.
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tesspc
Heliman
Location: Limoges Ontario Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		G3 all the way...

A man without wings is a man without dreams
04-08-2006 Over year old.
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400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Why limit yourself to one? Tho I have the "big ones", this is my fav at the moment as it'll help my Dad learn his Blade CP on his Optic TX on the cheap. Can't beat that with a stick.

The dev team has done a great service to people who fly Blade CP/CX (& dozens of other models)... I probably have $1000 in my Shogun, & can fly it without crashing at least, but people with $200 birds deserve a decent sim at a killer price.
04-08-2006 Over year old.
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400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Found how to add the Align HH gyro, that I use on my Hbee CP2:

go to the models directory, blade-cp-canopy, edit the params.txt file

look for this line:

rudSlopPoint 1.0E-5

well it'll have a value of 0.2, but make it 1.0E-5 and it's now HH, you'll feel the diff...

Under easy model setup, put the rotor speed at 2250, cyclic/tail %'s to 15 and you'll see how stable a BL Blade is (harder to invert at these #'s, easier to fly).
04-08-2006 Over year old.
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Cybinary
Senior Heliman
Location: The Colony, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thats awsome 400Heli...I will have to try that. So once you add the HH Gyro param then lower the head speed and that will make it more relistic?

I am going to play with mapping my CX here in the near future. Havn't had a chance to try it yet...been way to busy with work
04-08-2006 Over year old.
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400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yeah mapping the CX seems time consuming to get all the surface blocks the exact size and all. I like the weather, setting it to about .3 or .4 m/s is about the wind I have to deal with here, feels just like it, fighting the collective.

The HH gyro works great as it feels just like the Telebee/Align unit I'm using (took it from the Trex model), it's quite alot easier to fly without worrying on yaw so much (if flying a stock Blade, this will really spoil you). When I bumped rotor speed from 2000 or 2100 to 2200/2250 (under easy setup) it feels more like my BL instead of stock.

I changed the cyclic/rotor %'s to 15 (hard to invert, but easy to hover), it acts like a computer TX expo (this also spoil you if you have the stock TX) until I buy that $10 GWS serial cable (not worth time to make it at that price) to plug my Optic 6 TX which already has the expo in it.

Going to try to "auto-stitch" a panorama of my backyard where I fly mostly on a car tarp (so training gear skids across). I have a house wall, fences, and a pool to watch for, ha.
04-08-2006 Over year old.
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walter23
Senior Heliman
Location: calgary ab

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The clearview version of the Blade CP seems way more responsive than the real thing - collective and cyclic are both way faster and more powerful in the simulator. The tail also moves much more smoothly and stays pretty much put until you apply tail input with the controller.

The real blade is a bit more sluggish to respond to collective / throttle, and a bit more sluggish with cyclic controls. The tail tends to drift, especially as battery power runs down, but also may randomly move in flight (EDIT: Actually I figured out that my gyro gain was just set too high, it's more stable now), and it doesn't respond as nicely. You kind of have to use brute force and shove the tail around on the real thing, rather than giving it feather-touch inputs.

In a way this is good because if you can control it in the sim you can probably control it in reality too. The problem is that you might be used to the responsiveness of the simulator version, and the much steadier tail, and crash because you aren't controlling the real thing properly - expecting it to stay rock solid in the tail, and respond to cyclic quickly.

It might be closer with a direct drive tail, bell hiller mixing for faster cyclic response, and a lipo... not sure.

I'll try changing the cyclic from 40% to 20% - I've played a bit with some of the model parameters and couldn't get it right.

If you can fly the clearview blade CP, you can probably control the real thing pretty well, but take it easy at first to get used to the different response rates and feel. Keep the training gear on and only fly a couple of feet high.

---
Another blade CP first-time heli owner.
04-08-2006 Over year old.
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Cybinary
Senior Heliman
Location: The Colony, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks for the tips guys...Im going to print this out and play with the settings on ClearView to make them a little more realistice. I know the learning curve on Real Life will still be there, especially since I am getting a BCPP with the Bell-Hiller mod, but any lessening of that learning curve by practicing on the sim is what Im looking for!
04-08-2006 Over year old.
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400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Walter23, I agree with most of what you say, but are you using NiMH/10T/flat blades & stock TX? The sim Blade is definately the AEK version because I can fly it inverted. 3S is fairly hyper with stock TX esp with B-H rotor. Tail is a non-issue for me as I HH it in sim and real flight, but the sim wandered before (& can be set to wander more), did you add ~.3 m/s wind or is this an indoor compare?

Far as simming the 4-in-1 forget it... they all seem different, everyone has theirs adjusted different, & highly depend on batts.

I know a 9.6v batt is pic mapped to the model (I'm working on it, already added my Telebee HH gyro pic). Working on my H-Bee canopy.

I'm still playing with many params but I think the real blade is slightly easier in some respects, harder in others. Overall, I've got it so close to my setup I feel like I'm flying the real deal (but a BL, HH Blade is easier to model). But everyone's setup is a tad different. I know Clearview does its best to import .x model types (FMS). I imported my Superstar EP plane and it flies true. I believe a FMS Honeybee model exists, but I think it's FP, so that's far worse.

I don't see major flight inaccuracy except that 40% cyclic/tail is way too much, & altitude change occurs too fast, maybe the modeler had a slow PC, hard to say. This is fixable, as the other helis don't suffer. I will merge the best params into the Blade's model & create a refined one (I must for my Dad, so might as well share the effort spent)

I don't think a new BCP owner without a commercial sim can find anything closer for this price (nor do I think more money would help, or should try to get by with the free ones). It's helping my Dad fly his CX... I know... I've already modded the foam blade XRB Lama to move like the hard bladed Lama2 and CX. He's slow on the sticks/orientation still, but I've zoomed the little heli almost fullscreen so he can practice hovering. Clearview's models & sim params are a snap to change & the physics engine really is good.
04-09-2006 Over year old.
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walter23
Senior Heliman
Location: calgary ab

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yeah 400, mine is stock except for a 9T pinion (waiting for a 3S lipo in the mail, and have sym blades sitting on the shelf waiting). It flies fine with the 9.6V NiMH and the 9T (maybe a bit faster throttle response, not sure if the flight time is any different - not enough to notice anyway).

And about the tail, I think I had my gyro gain too high, because I turned it down before my last flight and the tail seemed a lot more steady. It wasn't vibrating or anything before, just would sometimes jump about 90 degrees.

---
Another blade CP first-time heli owner.
04-09-2006 Over year old.
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400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Walter, JMO but I'd think the 9T on the stock batt might be a tad sluggish, at the very least you're at a diff spot on the pitch curve in a hover. But everything will line-up with the 3S/syms.

Be sure to save your old motors, as the mod 0.5 pinions from them can be used on 2mm shaft BL motors (case you upgrade later, ~$50 upgrade).

I skinned the Blade model to a Honeybee CP2 canopy. Now I'm really flying better
04-09-2006 Over year old.
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turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		My only thought is If you are going from a CX you might be better off going to a regular Blade CP because the cyclic is much less sensitive than the Pro would be,,at least on paper,,but don't know where your at in the real world and I don't know the the Blade Pro either. Between the Blade CX and a CP is a different world. The Pro ,,who knows especially with the Bell-Hiller mod.
Pro mod doesn't make you a pro ,,,you have to be up to it,,maybe you are.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them
04-09-2006 Over year old.
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400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		But who wants an older bird if the newer one is coming out with easy upgrade paths. Far as the B-H mixing, they could move/add collar weights to the flybar or some other counter-measure. Some beginners like the mixing, others crash bigtime.

I'm pretty sure Cybinary knows where he stands flightwise; glad he pointed out a good sim at a good price for those that really need it.

If you were a beginner, and it was between a BCP and a BCPP, you'd pass on the BL/HH options because of the rotor?
04-09-2006 Over year old.
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e-E-Flite Blade MSR CP CX MCX 400-3D > For every1 getting ready to upgrade from CX to CP =)
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