RunRyder RC Helicopter Topic - New 90 size gas engine from webra

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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > New 90 size gas engine from webra

3DPP
Senior Heliman
Location: Vienna/Austria

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sharam, let me know before you buy, to tell you the last solutions and for sure I can do something for you.

05-09-2007 Over year old.

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prinzi
Heliman
Location: Korneuburg,near Vienna - Austria

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Hi, guy's

here a new video of the Cuatro Big Block

Also some TicToc's for Sharam

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/1505205
br

Philipp

05-22-2007 Over year old.

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Fixit
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

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Very nice, it’s a shame the 91 didn’t fly like that then I wouldn’t be out of pocket over £600. I think the right thing for Webra to do is recall the 91 and exchange them for the 150 or cash back.

05-22-2007 Over year old.

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sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

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Very impressive - thank you for posting!!

Please give some additional insight such as engine temp, fuel consumption rate, muffler type, spark plug, etc?

Headspeed was very nice and constant during those tic-tocs.

What modifications will I need to install this gas engine in my Cuatro? The mount has to be redrilled or a new mount has to be installed, fan size, clutch bell, pinion, etc.

Sorry for all the questions!

05-22-2007 Over year old.

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prinzi
Heliman
Location: Korneuburg,near Vienna - Austria

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Sharam:
I'm testing together with 3DPP. So I have still the same configuration as he wrote some post's before.

I can fly with 630ccm standard Cuatro fuel tank about 25 to 28 minutes. So mostly I'm flying only with half full tank to save weight. The Cuatro has 6,1 Kilogrmas without fuel. Temperature is about 175° Celsius. Spark plug and ignition is the same which is used also on the 91 gas engine. Muffer is a standard muffer --> no performance increasing Magicpipe. On Idle 3 I have between 1650 and 1750 rpm. I'm still using a gas curve because the installed Revlock 20 is not working well in the Cuatro. In the Synergy I have no problems with it?? Maybe too big vibrations.. I still have to find out..

Concerning mounting: You can see some posts before some photos. There is only a new engine mount installed.

At the moment I'm using a clutch bell with 27 teeth. Gear ratio 7,57

Next will be to check the motor and see how it is looking after about 10 liters. Klaus is using the engine in his F3C Nova with temperatures 10 to 15 degree lower than we do. So it will be interesting to see if there is any difference. Then I will change the clutch bell to 25 teeth (gear ratio 8,18) and will also look on the exact dimensions of the engine mount.

br
Philipp

05-22-2007 Over year old.

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sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

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Great info! Thanks again for your posts. I should post a video of my Cuatro flying with the Nitro Webra 91 AAR. I am very impressed with the power that engine can deliver.

05-22-2007 Over year old.

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sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

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hi prinzi, any updates on the gas 150? Thanks. Please keep us posted.

07-17-2007 Over year old.

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prinzi
Heliman
Location: Korneuburg,near Vienna - Austria

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Hi sharam,

I have news

After the last video the engine came back to Webra for some checkup's. Everything was looking good although we had sometimes more than 185 degree celsius. I got the engine back with new "inwards" because Webra stored all of them for documentation. So in principal I got back a new engine. In the meantime I changed the gear ratio from 7,57 to 8,18 (25 teeth clutch bell) So then I was able to use the standard tooth belt (375mm).

I changed pitch to 9 degree +-. This is the same I used for the 91 methanol engine.
At the beginning I used a very rich configuration and was only on 135 Degrees. Here I saw the difference to the old 7,57 gear ratio. Had have enough power now. It was comparable with the 91 engine with 10% nitro. In the other setup it was not really possible to fly with this low temperature. So after some tank's I made the mixture leaner to see that is possible. I noticed again a extrem punch if the temperator is over 170 degrees! At Idle 3 I had 1700. But the engine was not really feeling confortable. The speed sounds too high. So I made the mixture a littel bit rich and at the moment I'm flying the following gas curves:
idle3: 1500rpm and between 175 and 185 degrees
idle2: 1300rpm and between 150 and 165 degrees
idel1: 850rpm and about 135 degrees
Outside temperature was 30 degrees celsius.
Another difference to the old setting is that if I'm switching back from idle3 to idle2 is takes only some seconds till the temperature decrease. So I can use a richer mixture and getting neally the same power. --> And this is better for the Engine

My favourite is idle2: Here I have still more power than with 91 engine on 30% nitro. So it is not needed to fly this huge heli with 1700rpm.

It is really impressive to fly with 850rpm's and hear only the sound of the blades, switch to 1300rpm and doing some TicToc's and finally making a big loop with 1500

Now I have about 4 hours running time on the engine and I'm flying and flying to get more long time expirience.

New video is comming next.

br
Prinzi

07-17-2007 Over year old.

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sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

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Prinzi,

Thanks much for the information you posted. I think you like the 8.18 better than the 7.57 gear ratio!

I am thinking of either getting the nitro or gas version for my Cuatro. I am not sure which one is right yet. The nitro should have some serious power!

07-17-2007 Over year old.

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prinzi
Heliman
Location: Korneuburg,near Vienna - Austria

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sharam,

it depends what you want. If you want a light Cuatro for hard 3D I think the 91 nitro is the better choice (I know a engine tuner in Germany who brings more than 4 HP out of the Webra 91 with 12,5%Nitro!!). If you like a smoother style, more acrobatic than 3D and a special engine which is not used by everyone, the 150i will be a the better choice. I like the application spectrum of this setup. Flying with low headspeed and doing also some 3D, or doing some scale flying and having at any time impressive torque!.

br
Prinzi

07-18-2007 Over year old.

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Jarno
Veteran
Location: Finland

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Hello Prinzi,

You mentioned that you're using 25T clutch bell and 375mm belt. Didn't you have any difficulties mounting the engine with those? I tried the same, but found the belt too short with that setup. The top of the clutch assembly (start block) got rubbed with the bearing block (S4692). So I used 390mm belt instead, but had to add about 6-7mm between the engine and the engine mount.

Cheers

07-18-2007 Over year old.

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prinzi
Heliman
Location: Korneuburg,near Vienna - Austria

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Well, it is very short and I had to cut the engine mount a little bit and adapt the bearing block with the dremel a little bit and I cutted the dom mount (S46131) so that only the upper part is available now.
I tried it also with the longer belt but then I hadn't enough space in the front to plug on the plug connector.

So this was the only possibility to implement this.

br
Prinzi

07-18-2007 Over year old.

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Jarno
Veteran
Location: Finland

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Thanks Prinzi. So with the both belts some extra work is needed when using 25T clutch bell. Your setup is somewhat better as it doesn't need any added spacers to the engine mount. So it's a bit lighter.

Oh how much oil do you use? I use some premade fuel made by Neste (Aspen) for chain saw's, lawn movers, small engines etc. with success with my Webras and Zenoah. It has only 2,5% oil, but I add some more when using it with the Webras. For Zenoah I don't add any extra oil. It's wonderful fuel as it doesn't smell or smoke at all. I guess it's naphta based stuff (91 octane).

07-18-2007 Over year old.

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prinzi
Heliman
Location: Korneuburg,near Vienna - Austria

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I'm using normal gas from the gas station and belray oil. We heard that this Oil makes neally no sediments. We will see.
At the moment I'm using a 1:20 mixture and if this mixed gallone is gone I will use 1:25

br

07-18-2007 Over year old.

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sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

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prinzi, thanks for your comments. I have a Webra 91 in my Cuatro and I was thinking of going with the 150, why? No real good reason other than when a new more powerful engine comes out, the first law of helicopters applies. This law, which is cast in stone and carried from the mountain, states, "thou shalt always need more power."

I was recently thinking of buying the gas version of the 150 but I am now thinking maybe I should experiment and get the 150 nitro version.

If I do go with the Nitro version, I am thinking maybe I can use the existing gear ratio since the peak RPM of the 150 nitro is only 1000 less than the peak of the 91 nitro. I already run my Cuatro at 1750 so if I drop it down and run it at 1650, I should be pretty close to the peak RPM of the Nitro 150 without having to change the gear ratio. I need to double-check my gear ratio but it should be the standard.

Do you know of anyone who has used the 150 nitro in a Cuatro yet?

Also, do you know how that engine tuner in Germany is getting 4 HP out of his 91? That might be the easiest and cheapest route!

Thanks!

07-18-2007 Over year old.

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prinzi
Heliman
Location: Korneuburg,near Vienna - Austria

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At the moment we have no experience with the 150nitro. It will have much more power and maybe less wight, because there is no ignition

But for my point of view I think the 150 Gas is enough for this mechanic.
It is not my goal to fly hard 3D with the Cuatro. More smooth 3D with low RPM and having much more torque than any other 91 Nitro. It can be difficult to start the 150Nitro with standard start equipment. I had some troubles with the starter driver hexagon in fact of the high compression of the 150 gas and killed 2 starter. Now I have a Dynatron with 18Cell's of NiCd Accus. The Nitro 150 has much more compression so it will be interesting to start without always changing the Hexagon and the starter shaft adapter after some starts.

Concerning this tuner: I can give you the homepage but it's only in german

If you like really much power. Implement a turbine with 5 kilowatts

I know another guy which is dealing with conversion kits for the Cuatro

br
Prinzi

07-18-2007 Over year old.

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sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

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Please do post the url - my German is rusty (I lived in Dusseldorf when I was young for a little while!) but I have some friends who can translate.

Yes, starting can be a problem. I may have to come up with innovative ideas! I have found that the Dynatron on 24 volts will practically crank through anything!

Turbine - that is the next step! I am thinking of a turbine but in a scale ship, probably an AS-350. This is a future project! Check out Alpenheli's ship! He is on RR.

Danke!

07-18-2007 Over year old.

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Jarno
Veteran
Location: Finland

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I re-checked my setup yesterday evening and noticed that I'm using a 26T clutch bell. So my gear ratio is 7,86. With head speed of 1600 the engine should run nicely at around 12500rpms.

Gee...I've been too long out of my helicopter room as I had already forgotten which gear ratio I was using! Now I remember I tried to use 25T clutch bell and 375mm belt, but as it was too much work to do I decided to go the easier route and used 26T bell and 390mm belt instead. Just added some spacers to the engine mount.

07-19-2007 Over year old.

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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > New 90 size gas engine from webra

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