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Experience RC . Heli-Max . Hobby Hut

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Aerial Photography and Video > Robbe Heli Command.
 
 
Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: Cyprus

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Quote 
Harris

If you don't mind what are you using for comm port settings?

Bits/second
Data Bits
Parity
Stop bits
Flow Control

Gary it doesn't matter what settings you use, because the HeliCommand software will set its own COM port parameters.
03-14-2007 08:30 PM
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kgtjan01
Heliman
Location: NJ

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I have ordered the PC link with Helicommand 3D unit to the Austrian dealer (Thanks to the web info from raptor-9). They charged 40 euro for delivery and they say it will take around 14 working days to USA via air mail. If you have experience for getting goods from Europe (especially from Austria) via air mail, how long does it actually take to be delievered to US?
03-15-2007 03:05 PM
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Autoeject
Key Veteran
Location: Ashtabula, OH, USA

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14 days sounds like an appropriate estimate. Don't get too frustrated if it takes longer, however. Sometimes the boat slows down.

Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
Spartan RC Distributor
Outrage Helicopters
03-15-2007 03:09 PM
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Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: Cyprus

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You can also get it from www.ercmarket.com. They are in Belgium and have the best prices for HeliCommand I could find.
03-15-2007 04:17 PM
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raptor-9
Heliman
Location: Malta_Europe

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Here are some shops with good prices:-

Here are some shops with good prices:-

http://www.modellbau-bichler.com/gy...736cd6191dad2f3


http://www.heli-pro.de/cgi-bin/lshop.cgi

http://www.mscomposit.com/index.php...&qs=HeliCommand

R-9
03-15-2007 10:43 PM
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Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: Cyprus

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Quote 
Here are some shops with good prices:-

When you are ordering from European online retailers remember that some of them show prices with VAT and some of them without. Customers outside the EU should pay prices without VAT. That's why www.mscomposit.com seem to be so much cheaper compared to the others.
03-16-2007 08:12 AM
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Torsten
Key Veteran
Location: Germany

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jepp,

german retail prices include 19 % vat
03-16-2007 08:21 AM
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raptor-9
Heliman
Location: Malta_Europe

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Quote 
When you are ordering from European online retailers remember that some of them show prices with VAT and some of them without. Customers outside the EU should pay prices without VAT. That's why www.mscomposit.com seem to be so much cheaper compared to the others

I have no connection or sponsor from the mentioned shops....All I was trying to say ,is that one can surf the web and can get the best prices for the same product,from other good model shops across the World!.............In this case Robbe Helicommand and,or software... from Europe-R-9.
03-16-2007 11:21 AM
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Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: Cyprus

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Quote 
I have no connection or sponsor from the mentioned shops....All I was trying to say ,is that one can surf the web and can get the best prices for the same product,from other good model shops across the World!.............In this case Robbe Helicommand and,or software... from Europe-R-9.

Sorry, R9, I didn't mean that you had any bias for or against the shops you mentioned. I was just warning people so they don't make the same mistake like me. Thankfully I noticed it before pressing the BUY button.

Harris
03-16-2007 01:13 PM
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ido
Heliman
Location: Tel Aviv-Israel

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Well.. Is it as good as spartan ap2001 & co-pilot ?

I want to buy stabiliser device for AP for my Logo 10.
From your experience so far - wich system should I buy ?

Thanks
03-16-2007 04:33 PM
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kgtjan01
Heliman
Location: NJ

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I learned from posts in this thread that the rudder gyro function built into the Helicommand is not as good as GY401. Do you think it can be improved by future software improvments/updates in the Helicommand unit or there needs hardware updates for better tail rotor control? To me it seems it is a matter of software improvements to some extent, except that the current processing power of Helicommand is not good enough for supporting the computation needed for better yaw control such as AVCS used in GY401.
03-16-2007 07:15 PM
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Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: Cyprus

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Ok guys, I have been doing quite a bit of flying lately with the HeliCommand so I think I can provide an opinion about it.

First of all my setup. I installed HC 3D on my electric Lepton EX. The installation was pretty straightforward. However, configuring it in eCCPM mode was not! It took quite a bit of fiddling to get all servos to move in the right direction and at the same time get the HC to provide stabilisation correctly. Initially, I tried to do it without the PC cable but it proved too complicated. The automatic setup simply didn't work for me. Once I got the PC cable, it was much easier! At least I could see what I was doing. I strongly recommend buying it because there are many other parameters that can be set only from the PC.

I used the HC mostly in horizontal (yellow) mode. I tried the position (green mode) but found it totally useless! The heli would drift quite a bit even without any wind. It also seemed too sensitive to altitude. It worked best at about 1 meter above the ground (covered with tall grass and gravel). Any higher or lower and the drifting would become much worse.

In horizontal mode, the HC seems to work reasonably well but it is not as good as the AP2000i with the infrared sensor. You always need to control the heli. You just can't let go of the sticks no matter how well the HC is calibrated. With infrared, once the sensors can see a clear horizon, the heli will fly on its own. In other words, the HC is not as good for aerial photography.

Another thing I found very different is that if you are flying at a fairly high speed and let the sticks go the AP2000i will slow the heli down very quickly. The HC will allow the heli to keep moving at the same speed! Also, when you move the sticks past a certain point, the HC stops providing stabilisation and the heli suddenly moves very fast! It takes some time to get used to this behaviour and initially you may well think that there is something wrong with the unit. There are some settings that can be changed via the PC software, but I just left them at their defaults.

I didn't try the tail gyro, so I don't know how good it is. Also, I don't know how vibrations of a .90 size nitro engine will affect the HC. I don't fly 3D but I don't think it would save my heli if I screwed up a roll 5 meters above ground. For my type of flying (scale/FAI) and my application (panic button in case of finger trouble) it works but your mileage may vary!

Harris
03-19-2007 09:47 PM
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scott sr
Veteran
Location: SEAFORD

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So Harris what are you really saying here ! I know the Spartan is very good , But on a scale of 1 to 10 where would you rate the Helli Command and where would you put the a2000i ? Thanks for your time .

Scott Sr. ><> ****Support Our Troops**** ><>
03-19-2007 10:00 PM
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Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: Cyprus

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Scott, the two are very different in the stabilisation they provide. I would say that the AP2000i would get 8 from me and the HeliCommand 6. I feel confident enough to let go of the sticks when the AP2000i stabilisation is activated but not so with the HC.

Again I must stress that different people may have different requirements so what is good for me may be not good for you and vice versa.

Also, there are lots of settings on the HC which affect the way it works so fine-tuning them may improve things. The best thing about the HC is that it works the same no matter the weather either outside or inside.

The HC is a step in the right direction but IMHO having only gyros is not adequate to provide stabilisation. One needs also accelerometers in order to create an artificial horizon.

The Carvec system is the best simply because it has it all. I wish JohnC could come up with a simpler and much cheaper system. All one needs is a two axis stabilisation sensor plus a way to mix all inputs and drive the servos.

Harris
03-20-2007 03:11 PM
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GeorgeM
Senior Heliman
Location: Europe

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Hi Harris,

I agree with you totally on your last post except the last phrase when you mentioned two axis only.

From what I hear AP'ers want.... , And from what I know I want,
I feel that for general AP but especially for panoramic work ( which is where the tricky part is )..
the basic requirements are :

1) to have the helicopter fly into a position (of known altitude if doing balcony work)

2) select a switch or button on the transmitter where the heli will maintain position within 3 meters radius, sometimes even less ( for parallax error reduction when low in altitude )

3) with the same switch, the heli will maintain the same altitude within 2 meters or quite close to that

4) during this brief time, say 20 seconds, all panoramic shots are taken.

5) switch is turned off, fly to a new position and flick it back to hold, and goto item 2)


Sounds simple. Effectively, hard to achive in a low cost package.

Some design ideas....

How about developers like FMA, Carvec, Spartan, Robbe, Colin Mill CSM, General Laser, etc,
create a package that will be using the following "simpler" line of thought :

The helicopter is flown in a stable manner under an infra red stabilizing system.
When the "switch" is turned on, 3 accellerometrs are brought in the control loop to limit acceleration very "harshly" ( algorithm ) on lateral/vertical movement. The gyros for full 6 DOF are not needed since the helicopter is supposed to be relative stable under IR flight control. Thereby simplifying the software ( a lot ) !!!

When the switch is turned off, the accelerometers are brought out of the loop since the helicopter will have to be flown ..ie tilted.. to move to another location, and therefore, the resulting components will the disturb the "harsh algorithm" on the accels.

I am using the word "harsh" because for an accelerometer to have good resolution at the low acceleration rates exhibited when a hovering helicopter moves translationally, the output from the accelerometers has to be worked up hard to give any indication of motion.
IE.. needing very clever filtering and damping.

Can JohnC /Angelos/ ???? .. chime in on this proposal ??



Thankyou.
03-22-2007 09:13 AM
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lele
Veteran
Location: italy

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George

I agree about the needs that you say, of hovering and not drifting from the position, but it could be easier to get this by a IR stabilizer that would be able to make a simple elaboration of a GPS signal to stay in position an altitude. Is it possible that nobody comes out with such a device? it would be so easy to sell many of them for say somenthing like 400/500 euros! but even better would be a Helicommand with such GPS positioning since it would not be affected by wether...I know there is the pro version of the HC but I was thinking of something in the range of price I said and much smaller, same size and weight or little more than the HC 3A.

Lele
03-22-2007 11:48 AM
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GeorgeM
Senior Heliman
Location: Europe

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Lele..

in my opinion GPS is too slow to be able to posiiton hold a helicopter when only coupled by IR.

GPS + 3x Accel + IR would be nice and reasonably accurate.

GPS + Helicommand ( as a solution ) should theoretically work.
However I seriously doubt Helicommand's ability to do what's said on the box except when very near to "perfect" ground.
03-22-2007 12:42 PM
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lele
Veteran
Location: italy

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George

I also doubt about the possibility for the HC to do what it claims in position mode, I own one and only used it in horizontal mode..and have to say that it works, it feels like flying a very stable heli, you could also move the eyes from the heli for 1 or 2 seconds since it "almost" stays there ( if you trim it in flight against the direction of wind, with the HC on it could actually stay there). I think this is not comparable to AP 2000 but I only suppose that since I never had an AP2000. I have a General Laser unit, but never tested it enough to compare it to the HC even if I would say that the HC is better.

lele
03-22-2007 01:05 PM
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Harris
Senior Heliman
Location: Cyprus

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lele and GeorgeM,

I wish JohnC could sell his full Carvec system at the price of the HeliCommand!

I am afraid this is not very practical. That's why I am asking for a cheaper sensor that can stabilise the heli on only 2 axes. It is much more difficult to stabilise perfectly on the vertical axis especially in windy conditions.

I bought a couple of 2-axis accelerometers a while ago and have been experimenting with them since. They are VERY sensitive to vibrations. That's why you need very careful positioning and isolation/padding. Also, that's the reason most artificial horizon systems give more weight on the data obtained from gyroscopes than from accelerometers.

There are some related open source projects on www.sourceforge.net that I am following, but I am telling you, IMU's are very tricky to get right and require a lot of heavy maths (usually Kalman filtering or neural networks).
03-22-2007 09:53 PM
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Gary Evans
Heliman
Location: Mesa, Az, USA

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Helicommand

The HC position hold mode on my TRex450 is pretty steady. Not motionless but any drift is slow and very stable as long as the surface has enough texture. Comparable to flying a Lama coaxial. While this is of little to no interest for AP applications I believe it has a lot of promise as a training aid. You could accomplish the same purpose (kind of) with a lot of simulator time but nothing compares to a real heli. You could also get through this stage just by crashing a lot, which is good for the parts vendors but hard on finances.
The HC position hold could assist a beginning pilot during initial hover and eye/hand coordination training and as he progresses the gain can be turned down to give him more control. The horizontal mode would be useful beyond low flight.
For the price it adds a lot of stability. Not perfect but affordable. It also works the same in any weather and right up against horizon blocking objects like buildings. I fly mine off the driveway right in front of the house. Saves me driving miles to an available field.
The HC software documentation leaves something to be desired and it is very particular about USB-Serial converters if all you have are USB ports on your PC.
I'm not sure if the majority of heli pilots who learned the hard way are ready for this but it could be part of the future.

I apologize that this is off subject of AP but no one else is talking about flight stabilizers.
03-22-2007 10:24 PM
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