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Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber . Futaba-RC

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e-Ark X-400 - MX400 > MX-400 Service report
 
 
celihopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth first on the left..

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Well, my MX-400 is still going strong. I made it to 306 flights and 40.71 hours.
Still operates very reliably in the configuration I described earlier.
A few more crashes (all pilot error or caused by sudden obstacle flight path interference) made me an expert in taking it apart and putting it back together including the usually required setup. All that is easy to do and not really time consuming.

I found out that almost every crash involves the same parts. Here is a list of them:
• Blades
• Feathering shaft
• Mixing arms
• Main shaft (sometimes)
• Landing skids
• Tail blades
• Main gear (if you hit with power on)

That’s really it for the most part.
The frame (aluminum will bent sometimes). That is not a problem I have bent mine back to shape multiple times already.
Also I am on the very first (original) blade grips, even after a full power inverted hit.

I did change to TREX blade grips and blades for a few flights. I found out that the TREX blade grips give up (at least mine) on the very first minor hit – that might be intended to save other parts since the REX uses heavier blades with more inertia.

Anyway the original hollowed out light wooden blades and grips worked for me even for all the simple aerobatics

I am amazed to find the heli still flying after more than 40 hours on the following original parts:
• Motor and pinion
• speed control
• frame and all frame parts
• blade grips
• all bearings are original
• belt
• forward belt drive pulley, shaft and gear
• all linkages (some eye fittings are replaced)
• pitch, elevator and aileron levers and bell cranks (all plastic)
• Tail pulley housing (plastic)
• Swash plate (I used a metal and currently use the original plastic for more than 30 hours now)

Some other parts have been replaced in the very first hours and are in use since then.

Anyway I love the thing and it is probably not a serious 3 D helicopter but it flies and flies and keeps going.
07-03-2006 Over year old.
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celihopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth first on the left..

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Flight 309 at 41.1 hours:
Lost tail servo in flight – the servo just stopped working for whatever reason.
Disaster at about 15 mph wind and gusts my heli spun to the ground.
Lowered collective and finally just closed the throttle (that’s all I could come up with).
It hit tail first.
Damage:
• Tail drive shaft bent
• Tail boom bent about 45 degrees
• Main gear lost some teeth
• Forward frame seems to be a little out of alignment
Other than that -nothing besides that the boom supports came undone- but didn’t brake.
Even the skids lived through the event.
There is absolutely no damage to the rotor head or blades (Guess they didn’t spin on impact).

The servo has been installed at flight 109 and 19.8 hours. It was one of the S-75 which came with my DX-6 radio.
07-08-2006 Over year old.
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celihopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth first on the left..

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well I decided to take it apart to the last little screw and look it all over considering the run time.
Will soon post inspection results.

Also decided to do the CCPM upgrade and to install new servos (HS-56’s) with it.
Sounded like a good idea ……until I started putting things together.

I should have read all the posts about it first.

Looks like the swashplate coming with it has issues regarding rod alignment and the antirotation bracket interferes with any descent length servo arm. Do I have to by another swashplate? Will fiddle more with it tonight.
Right now I have to work so I can buy more parts which don’t work or have to be modified to be usable………
I also feel like taking a trip to China to throw my stuff at somebody’s table… Anybody going?
07-13-2006 Over year old.
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celihopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth first on the left..

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well I got the CCPM conversion to work just as everybody else I guess.
Thanks for the many posts in this regard.
Just did the first flight...smooth as silk and much more direct in control compared to before.
Used HS-56 servos all the way around.

Both fwd servos are mounted to the frame inside using the unneeded and cut off servo mounting tabs as spacer between frame and servo (about .o40" thick as per eyeball).
The rear servo is mounted to the outside of the frame using a 1/4" spacer on each mounting tab.
I used the very first hole on each servo arm (10mm from the center of the axis) for all 3 swash servos.
The balls are mounted to the outside of the servo arms and the push rods are positioned very closed to ideal in relation to the swashplate.
Using this setup I was able to use the CCPM conversion supplied red swash plate.
Did the swashplate mod using some JBweld.
I also did have to notch the bottom side of the antirotation bracket using a file.

The short servo arms work just fine.
Had to turn up the pitch value in swash menu to 90 - and I am getting + - 10 degrees of pitch without any problems.
I am using a JR6102/ Spectrum Radio with the DX-6 mod.
By the way - I love this mod...Thanks to the Genius who came up with it.

Also don't think I go to China ..... all my frustration about the non fitting parts went away after my first flight.
07-17-2006 Over year old.
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celihopterSenior Heliman - Location: Planet Earth first on the left.. - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Here are some pictures taken during my recent CCPM conversion.
the little cut off servo tab showed in the frame picture was used as spacer for mounting the fwd servos as mentioned in my last post above.


07-19-2006 Over year old.
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celihopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth first on the left..

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I recently rebuild my MX-400 after a complete disassembly down to the last screw.
I installed the ARK CCPM upgrade, all new HS-56 servos, a new belt, all new bearings in the drive train and changed over to a TREX metal tail blade holder which fits better with the already installed TREX tail pitch slider.

Therefore this topic should end because there isn't much left of the original helicopter.

Here is what I found during disassembly after 41 flight hours:
Motor (Helimax recommended 6 pole-41hrs)
found in good condition, no play in bearings by feel, works as on day one.
Pinion (14 tooth supplied with helicopter-41 hrs)
must be replaced after 41 hours shows significant wear (brass)
Swash plate (plastic as supplied-26 hrs)
The plastic swash plate was used for about 26 hours and shows just or only as much play as my upgrade metal swash plate which I only used for 15 hours and changed after it developed excessive play.
Bearings for main shaft (41 hrs)
Spin still free and have just as much or as little play as the new ones I bought, because I thought they need to get changed.
Figured these little bearings have spun approximate 5.800.000 times ....
Bearing blocks for main shaft bearings(plastic as supplied-41 hrs)
They are as good as new, the upper might have developed a little play in the bearing seat, but not enough to make the bearing spin.
I never secured the bearings within the blocks as some guys do. I changed them but I think they would still work. Guess it would be better to add a drop CA to avoid spinning of a bearing.
Washout assembly (Plastic -TREX- approximate 25hrs)
Still in good working condition and is still in use -except radius arms which have developed some play on the ball joints and should be replaced.
Rotorhead (plastic as supplied- approximate 20 hrs)
Still in good working condition and is still used.
Blade grips (plastic as supplied-41 hrs)
Still in good working condition including bearings. These are the original ones and lived through all the crashes. These blade grips seem to be indestructible...
Linkages (as supplied-41 hours)
All linkages are still usable. I did replace some eye fittings because of wear)
Elevator lever and torque lever (plastic as supplied -41 hours)
Still as good as on day one. I was surprised to find absolutely no play between both parts after I had it apart. However - I did glue them together during assembly as recommended by Helimax.
The CA did not hinder disassembly to any great degree.
Aileron lever (plastic as supplied- 41 hours)
Still good. I can not detect any wear except for a little axial play which could be taken out with a shim washer.
Collective pitch lever (aluminum as supplied- 41 hours)
Lever and bearings are as good as new. No play no wear.
frame and all frame parts (aluminum as supplied -41 hours)
The frame is slightly out of alignment due to multiple impacts over the time in service.
Surprisingly the lower frame is as good as new and is still used. Most crash related damage occurred to the upper frame (weak at the servo cutouts).
FWD belt drive pulley, shaft, gear, bearings and bearing blocks (plastic as supplied -41 hours).
The plastic pulley shows very little wear compared to my new one. I'll still replace it. The shaft and the gear are as good as new and are in use again.
The upper bearing block developed minor play in the bearing seats. I did not retain the bearings. Both blocks are replaced but would still be usable.
Bearings spin free, look good and have as much play as my new ones (after about 30.000.000 rotations). I did replace them.
Belt (as supplied -41 hours)
Now this is my biggest surprise. The belt shows no or very little wear compared to my new one, and this after some crashes impacting on the tail.
I decided to change it for no real reason.
Tail pulley housing and tail shaft bearings (plastic as supplied -41 hours)
This plastic box is nearly indestructible. The only wear is in the screw holes from taking it apart multiple times for checking and cleaning.
The bearing seats are as good and tight as on day one. I really don't see a reason for a metal tail box.
I installed a new plastic box just because I had one.
The two small bearings have the same play (approximate) as the new ones I bought. They spin free and look good. Just figured these little bearings spun about 30.000.000 times......
I changed them just because of that.
Tail drive shaft with pulley (plastic as supplied - approximate 20 hours)
Pulley shows wear but would be still ok to use. Unfortunately the shaft is bent so it must be replaced.
TREX tail pitch slider (35 hours)
It is the plastic one with double fork design. It is still good and shows very little play within the upper fork.
It will be replaced with a TREX metal part just because it is so pretty.

Overall I am surprised how well the helicopter held up.
Please keep in mind, that I used a not very powerful motor (Helimax 6 pole) and my head speed is only about 2350. Also my flying style was not really aggressive.
On the other hand, I flew the helicopter often in winds gusting to more than 20 mph, crashed it multiple times for different reasons and it was my first real helicopter not counting the Blade CP.
A good machine and ways more reliable than my 3DPRO.
07-25-2006 Over year old.
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xStatiCa
Senior Heliman
Location: New Port Richey, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		"Did the swashplate mod using some JBweld."

I bought a used mx400 Pro with CCPM conversion and my heli seems to have very erratic collective movement during hovering. One second it hovers up and down smoothly and then all of a sudden it drops by 4 feet with just a slight movement of the stick. I looked at the swashplate and the upper and lower parts of the swashplate have a lot of vertical movement from each other which translates into 2 to 3 degrees of play in the main blades. I found that out by holding the flybar and very lightly twisting the main blade holders. The rod/linkages and the top red part of the swashplate moves up and down (it should only rotate left/right) but the bottom part of the swash stays still.

When your swash plate started having too much play did you notice erratic collective adjustments too?
07-27-2006 Over year old.
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celihopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth first on the left..

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		My swashplate has a lot of play in tilt (upper part in relation to lower ring)and relatively little in vertical direction. Both is not so good. However I did not have any unwanted movements up and down when I was flying.
This is an upgrade red ARK metal shwashplate which came with my CCPM kit and is brand new. I just pushed it apart and added JB weld as I assembled it again. This will avoid the feared swashplate separation.
Did you do that? If not, do it - sounds like your swashplate is coming apart. Search for it, there has been plenty written about it.)

I had a gold ARK swashplate before and that had large amounts of play in any direction. That's supposed to be an UPGRADE...
Matterfact the original plastic part had less and served me well for 26 hours.
07-28-2006 Over year old.
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xStatiCa
Senior Heliman
Location: New Port Richey, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I found out the play(tilt) seems to be where the bearings are :/. I plan to buy another swash plate but now I am tempted to buy a trex CCPM swash plate because of all the problem with the current helimax CCPM swash plate.

Wish I had the mechanical skills to remove the bearing from the old metal standard mechanical mix swashplate and put it in the CCPM one. It has zero slop anywhere in it.
08-07-2006 Over year old.
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celihopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth first on the left..

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I also think about getting the TREX swash plate.
08-07-2006 Over year old.
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celihopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth first on the left..

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Guess I am getting another swash plateSad because the red one looks good with my other red head parts.
Unfortunatly it has ways to much play. It is unbelivable how much the inner ring moves in relation to the outer bearing ring. This is an upgrade - means it is supposed to be better - or did I get that wrong again?
What a sloppy part and it has only flown for about 20 flights now
Installed the ARK metal seesaw and it works fine. It comes without instructions but is easy to assemble after you figured out how it is supposed to be done..... Some head scratching, a search at this forum and a couple cold ones did the trick for me I honestly suggest to have the cold one before you start assembly, it will be a more relaxing experience this way Why not include a little sheet for the less able? I would have gladly paid 50 cents more for it. It's all designed in CAD anyway and all these assembly dwg's exist
I am still very exited about the beautiful red part, so let me send a thank you to the manufacture: "Me very being full of thank letting me having use this wonderful part making work good for me...Great honor for family.."I hope nobody feels offended I am just kidding, and yes I do realize that we would be screwed in this hobby without Chinese made helicopters.
08-10-2006 Over year old.
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celihopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth first on the left..

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I still have the old original plastic swashplate which came with my kit. This one seemed to have all the play in the upper ball part and not the bearing.
Decided to swap bearings to see if I can improve my red ccpm swash.
Removed the bearings from both swash plates destroying the bearing from my red swash in the process and also sadly my well worn plastic swash.
I did improve it significant less play.
08-12-2006 Over year old.
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xStatiCa
Senior Heliman
Location: New Port Richey, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		After contacting HeliMax about the extreme amount play around the bearing area they decided to warranty the part and send me a new eCCPM swash plate. I basically told them where the play was and asked them if I should be concerned about the swash plate falling apart during flight and they replied yes. This is the first time dealing with HeliMax with problems and I am extremely impressed. Looks like they back up their product.
08-12-2006 Over year old.
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celihopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth first on the left..

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Cool.
Is it any better?

Just did the first flight after my swash "repair".
It's so much better!
08-13-2006 Over year old.
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xStatiCa
Senior Heliman
Location: New Port Richey, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		3 days ago they said they would ship it out in a few days so I assume it will at least be a week before I get it. I am sure it is going to help the feel of the swash plate in the air quite a bit (we will see). I am grounding the heli until the new swash comes in.
08-13-2006 Over year old.
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xStatiCa
Senior Heliman
Location: New Port Richey, FL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well I have it installed. There is less play but even brand new there is more play than I would like(less than a degree of movement in the main blades because of it). The original metal swashplate (non eCCPM) has no play at all in it so this seems to be just a quality thing with the bearings in the CCPM swashplate. I might end up buying a trex swashplate after all if this one gets more slop in it. Only time will tell.
08-25-2006 Over year old.
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oopsididitagain
Veteran
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		how much have you guys spend on the initial heli setup to make it fly-able?
08-25-2006 Over year old.
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celihopter
Senior Heliman
Location: Planet Earth first on the left..

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Not that much. The question is answered in report above.
The stock plastic MX-400 will fly well with a few needed additions like aluminum center hub and possibly TREX double fork tail pitch slider and tail blade hubs either in aluminum or plastic.
It wont be a 3D machine but it will loop and roll all day long.
I read somewhere the comment it is a good solid flyer and come home save helicopter. I think that describes it pretty well.
08-26-2006 Over year old.
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yoadrian
Heliman
Location: Talking Rock, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Radio / other electronics stuff

Hey Celihopter, I saw where you talked about the JR 6102 being a good radio, (Can you plug that into great flights G3 sim?)and you also mentioned the servos you used. What do you recommend for the tail gyro and how does the tail servo and gyro relate. I've been looking at a bunch of posts on different sites, and people hint at the fact that the servo and gyro need to match or something, or that you need a high speed servo for the tail. What are you using? I am just getting started, I bought a mx400 because I was told not to waist time or money on a CP Blade. It came with the CCPM aluminum frame already installed, with 3 Futaba 3103 Servos, Align 35Amp ESC with connectors, a Brushless 6 pole ARK motor, ARK Pro-Tail, ARK Metal Head, ARK Aluminum Seesaw. I payed $207.00 for it. Did I get a good deal or did I get screwed? By having a 35 amp esc what does that do for me? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I've been reading a lot lately, there is a huge amount to learn but it looks like its a lot more gratifying than cars. I also need to get a battery and charger. Any recommendations on that? I have an EFLITE Pinnacle DC 1-14C charger, that does Ni-Cd, Ni-MH. I don't suppose it will charge Lipo, so I'm going to need one of those too. Thanks again. You can also just tell me to go jump... or refer me to some other sites, I just figured I'd ask you since you seem to know what you're doing.
09-03-2006 Over year old.
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oopsididitagain
Veteran
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		wow nice thread.

can anyone briefly tell me how much is a mx400 pro bare bones used but in good condition without the electronics would cost?
09-03-2006 Over year old.
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e-Ark X-400 - MX400 > MX-400 Service report
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