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Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber . Futaba-RC

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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > Webra 91AAR
 
 
Tyler
Elite Veteran
Location: Chicagoland area

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		From the posts I have been following recently, it appears as though the Webra 91AAR is the perfect engine. Smoother than a YS 80, runs on low nitro (inexpensive fuel), more power than an OS 91 on high nitro fuel, and very fuel efficient, and not overly compressed (24v starter not needed).

I realize most people are highly anticipating the new YS 91, but I am concerned about the high price tag, required high nitro fuel, and bugs known to first production runs of a new product.

With all this in mind, is it time to buy a Webra 91AAR? I see only a handful of flying reports to assure there are no bugs to be worked out. There doesn't seem to be a USA supplier for the Webra big block, and when I spoke to Ron Lund last week, he showed no interest in bringing the Webra to the States.

I like the consistant needle settings of the YS pumped engines, but the Webra 91 has a simple carb. Does the Webra have a tendency to lean out as the tank depletes? I may be persuaded to wait for the YS 91 if the Webra runs lean at the end of the tank like the OS wc and 91sxh typically do, (I have noticed that Curtis is using in flight mixture controls on his OS's as pictured on his web site).

I currently need a new engine, and have a new Hatori SB-15 muffler available. If I hear that the engine is truly plug and play, has no need for pumps, regulators, or any other fiddling done to it, and if the Webra 91 AAR will work with the Hatori SB-15 muffler on either 0% or 5%-10% nitro, I believe I am ready to make the committment. I have no desire to run more than 10.5 degrees pitch +/-, and I do use a Futaba GV-1 Governor.

I am hoping for a very smooth, quiet, powerful engine that I can set and forget.

Any comments are welcome,
Tyler

Airtronics & Switchglo...
Two fantastic upgrades
10-02-2002 Over year old.
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Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I've had a Webra 91 for quite a while now, but due to weather constraints, I've not had a chance to ring it out. I've done about 7 flights or so with it in my Vigor Std and am really impressed by the smoothness of the engine.
I'm running the Hatori 700 tuned pipe.
I have noticed that it does seem to lean out some as the tank is nearly empty.
I'm hoping to give it a blast this weekened, but I'm not convinced the weather is going to co-operate.

Si

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Simon Lockington
10-02-2002 Over year old.
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hobbyboy
Senior Heliman
Location: Puyallup,WA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		lean out

Tyler, there is not an engine I have run that is not pumped that does not lean out as the fuel gets lower. In some set ups if you are very rich to start with and have lots of power it does not show up. My OS 70 as well as the 61 WC were doing that as usual. I went back to my tried and true uniflow set up and it no longer leans at all from top to bottom, just like on my YS engines. Do a search on uniflow and give it a try.
Bob
10-02-2002 Over year old.
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TBoone
Senior Heliman
Location: Arkansas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Tyler, I have the Webra 91 on a Vigor. Running 8:1 and have been running 5% nitro. Initially, I had a performance specialties muffler on it which seemed to be choking the motor down. Webra says this motor needs a high volume muffler to perform properly. I just got one of the Zimmerman mufflers that measures 50mm in diameter. This is what was recommended to me by Webra. Unfortunately, it didn't come with a mounting bracket; but I did a very brief test last weekend with the muffler sort of rigged into place just to see how it might perform. I really couldnt believe how much of a difference there was between the two mufflers. The motor seemed to come to life on this muffler as compared to the other one. I think there really is something to the high volume recommendation that they make. I also picked up a muscle pipe 2 a couple of weeks ago and plan to experiment with it some later on. I just finished milling a mounting bracket last night and will do some more testing this weekend. I am a die-hard YS fan and will probably end up with a 91 if they ever decide to release the, but I have really been impressed with the Webra so far.

Tim
10-02-2002 Over year old.
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sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		TBoone,

I also just installed the 50mm Zimmerman on my Webra 91 in a Cuatro. I will test it out this weekend and report back to everyone. I just need to install the 601 Gyro. That Zimmerman is one BIG muffler!

I used the bracket from a smaller muffler temporarily until I get the larger bracket.

Like you, I am also partial to YS engines. I have a YS 80 in my Fury Ex and I love it's power and sound. Let's see how the Webra compares.
10-02-2002 Over year old.
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Horacio
Veteran
Location: CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The Peformance Specialties muffler stand off won't work with the Zimmerman pipe?

Hey Tim-
Where did you end up purchasing the Zimm.?

I was ready to fly when MA came out with the bearing upgrade/recall. I just sent in my clutch, bell and block. Lets see what they do.

Anyone know the stock # for the Zimm Pipe for a Fury Extreme?

Thanks!
10-03-2002 Over year old.
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TBoone
Senior Heliman
Location: Arkansas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Nope, the PS bracket is way to small for the Zimmerman muffler. This sucker is fat!!

I ended up using the PS bracket as a pattern and milled an enlarged version out that works good. I can send a pic if you are interested. It really bites that the Zimmerman didn't come with a bracket. I got mine from Alex at RCMarket. I don't know the model number, but it is a two-piece with o-rings like the Hatori SB series and the PS muffler. And, it measures 50mm. Again, it really seemed to open up the motor as compared to the PS muffler.

tim
10-03-2002 Over year old.
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Horacio
Veteran
Location: CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		What is the dia. of the PS muffler? I'd be interested in some pics of the set up if you can. If the Zimm. is as big as you say it is, I may have a problem with it rubbing on the tail support rods.
10-03-2002 Over year old.
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Futurac
Key Veteran
Location: Belgium , Europe

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Muffler

A small question, what is PS ?

as for mufflers. please let me explain again,
Webra do recommending to use Zimmermann Muffler 50mm
for 0-5% nitro.
the reason is, that as lowere the nitro% the higher the heat!! then there is a need to cool the engine.
its true, the muffler is bigger.
As for more then 5% nitro, you can use 40mm, what is exactly same concept, just slimmer.
as for other helis, Xcells, we have the mufflers for those as well,
most of mufflers can be seen on my www
if you have any questions, please let me know

Alex (Formerly Known as RCMarket )
10-03-2002 Over year old.
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TBoone
Senior Heliman
Location: Arkansas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		PS (Performance Specialties).

The diameter of the PS muffler is about 40-41mm as I recall. The Zimmerman that I got from Alex is 50mm. I don't think it would run on the skid of hte Fury. I'll try to post a picture of it tonight. I didn't try the PS muffler with higher nitro than 5%; so, I can't comment on what Alex says about smaller diameter being okay with higher nitro and the WEbra. What I have concluded is that the 50mm Zimmerman runs the motor better than the other muffler on 5%. Also, Webra recommended to me to use 10-12% nitro and the 50mm Zimmerman for best performance using a muffler (versus a tuned pipe). They also said the Hatori #984 (45mm dia.) provided good results, but the best results were obtained with the Zimmerman and 10-12% nitro. I think I saved the e-mail that I got from them and can forward it if you want to see it.

Tim
10-03-2002 Over year old.
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Tyler
Elite Veteran
Location: Chicagoland area

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		mufflers

I took a quick measurement of my Hatori SB-15 muffler last night, and it was about 145 mm in diameter and 225 mm in length from the front endcap weld seam to the rear endcap weld seam.

With this muffler, what would be the best nitro content? It appears as though this muffler falls right in between the low and higher nitro content recommended muffler sizes. I think the only difference between the 894 and the SB-15 is the two piece design, but I may be wrong on this one.

Thanks again,
Tyler

Airtronics & Switchglo...
Two fantastic upgrades
10-03-2002 Over year old.
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Barbary
Veteran
Location: new york

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		tyler, i think you mean 45mm diameter, not 145. although webra recommends the hatori 984 as well as the zimmerman, the sb-15 is the same diameter as the 984 but 2 inches longer, meaning it has considerably more volume than the 984. if the zimmerman (volume unknown but large) and the 984 both work, then the sb-15 should work too. i'm getting my extreme clutch assembly back from minair tomorrow and putting a new webra 91in the frames with an sb-15. the webra has already been run in by cyberheli because i didn't feel like hovering for 2 gallons. we'll see how it behaves in flight over the weekend. and i agree--i bought the webra because i decided why wait for the os 91 if the webra is already out and might kick ass as well as or better than the os anyway. i have a perry pump i can install if leaning on low fuel is a problem.
10-03-2002 Over year old.
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Tyler
Elite Veteran
Location: Chicagoland area

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Ooops, diameter error

Yes, the diameter of the muffler was a misprint, it should have been 45mm.

I am hoping for an engine at least as powerful as the YS 80, as smooth as the YS 61stII, and will work on $8-$9 fuel between 0-10%. I plan to drop it in a Freya 90 and use a GV-1 Governor.

Keep us posted, guys.

Tyler

Airtronics & Switchglo...
Two fantastic upgrades
10-03-2002 Over year old.
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Stephen
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Webra 91 exhaust

Hi folks,

I have seen over 30 Webra 91 on all kinds of mufflers and at least another 30 on Hatori 700 and 900 tuned pipes.

Trust me, the Webra 91 have enough power to be wasted on a muffler and can still dance circles around other engine/muffler combinations. But if you want the ultimate performance, Hatori 700 is the way to go. 420~430mm!!

BTW, have you ever heard of a YS80 cracking a set of Freya frames during full throttle climb out? I have seen the Webra 91 did that. The engine dropped out of the frame with the heli continued going up and eventually self destroyed. That's how brutal the power is!!

Stephen
CHRC
10-04-2002 Over year old.
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airwolf
Senior Heliman
Location: Hanna, Alberta, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		TBoone and Muscle Pipe 2

Please keep me up to date on how your new muscle pipe runs on the Webra 91.

My Webra 91 is running very smooth, with lots of power and very consistent through the whole tank, and goes rich once into the Header tank.

Dave
10-04-2002 Over year old.
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Maxx
Key Veteran
Location: Shreveport Louisana

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		OK, so if I wanted to run 5% fuel / muffler and wanted my M/R RPM to be 1650 ( with NHP Razor 710mm blades @ 1650 runs great...I don't like (or need) anything higher...) the the 8.54 gear in my SE would put the motor at 14091. As I use GV-1 to keep the RPM in check, would this combo have as much power as my YS80? Chris
10-04-2002 Over year old.
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3DPP
Senior Heliman
Location: Vienna/Austria

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi Maxx
Minimum by this confuguration is 11° and only a muffler or you overspeed the motor all the time.

The shortest gear ratio we test by Webra now, is 8.3 with a Hat 700 and 650.
In low Idle we open the carb only 70 % and fly with 11° and 12°.

In this way be carefull with this short gear ratio.
peter
10-04-2002 Over year old.
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sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Ok, the weekend was quite fruitful - got the Cuatro/Webra 91 to the field and had three tanks of hover and easy flights.

My first and only problem was a hydrolock on the engine. Took the plug out and flushed out the fuel and after playing with the needles a bit, got it started - with the help of a few great guys. High needle at 2.25 and low needle at 5.5. (50 mm Zimmerman muffler from FUTURAC - thank you Alex). I had to use two 12 volt cells in series to crank the engine for the first start. Starting for the second and third tanks were accomplished with one 12 volt gel cell.

General observations:

1. Very smooth, even running it really rich with the high needle at 2.25.

2. To my amazement, the heli just floated off the ground at a headspeed that was under 1000. One of the guys was trying to tach it and could not get a reading - the MinAir tach doesn't go below 1000.

3. Landed and tweaked the throttle curve and took off - headspeed now about 1150. VERY nice, gentle, smooth hover. Engine was very quiet and you could hear the blade noise easily above the engine noise.

4. Lots of smoke on 5% nitro CoolPower - I suspect the smoke was because of the small amount of Castor that I added to the fuel. Webra recommends running the first few tanks on 20% Castor. I cheated and added some castor to my synthetic. Not very scientific but i thought it would not hurt.

5. Third tank I decided to check the power - at those rich settings - and went to full throttle and full collective. My pitch was about +12 to +13. To my amazement, the Webra, with those rich settings, just pulled this roughly 13 pound heli straight up without bogging or breaking a sweat.

Headspeed was about 1200. Blades are TG 800mm.

Can't wait to see what this beast can do when it is broken in. BTW, the Zimm sounds very nice. It has a low throaty pitch which is quite pleasant.

More next weekend.

Sharam
10-07-2002 Over year old.
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Barbary
Veteran
Location: new york

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		sharam,
what's your blade length? did you mean 700 mm? my webra could probably pull 12 degrees at 1200 rpm, but it won't at 1800. i flew all the juice out of my recevier battery this weekend and managed a hard auto that creased one of my 700 mm blades. my lhs only carries 680s in carbon so i scooped those up while i wait for some new mail order 700s. with the 680s i can pull 12 degrees at 1800 without bogging, but those are short blades for a 91 and my fury doesn't seem to climb out any faster than the 700s did at 10 degrees. also, i wanted to see how far out my low needle was so i started screwing it in. when i got to 7 turns i decided to put it back where i started before i lost count. so my low end is definitely running richer than yours at 5.5 turns out, but i need that much or my hover leans out.
10-07-2002 Over year old.
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sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Barbary,

The blades are 800mm, yes eight hundred millimeters. The Webra had no trouble moving those blades around.

I bought the blades from Cyberheli. The Cuatro can take 800 mm blades. The machine from the tip of the canopy to the end of the boom is about 4 to 5 inches longer than my Fury Extreme!! The Cuatro is really a big beast.

I will try richening my low end some more next week to see if there is any difference.

I was aiming to keep the headspeed eventually at 1650 but I am now thinking that may be too high for these blades. I think I will aim for 1500 and adjust from there as necessary.
10-07-2002 Over year old.
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