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e-New & Emerging Electrics > EP 400 help ???
 
 
rayysmans
Senior Heliman
Location: Michigan

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my order for the EP400 came in today.....what do I need to get this bird up and flying......this is what I have left over from my Trex which I sold it.....(4) hitech 56 servos....Gyro 240...CC35 speed contorl.....and JR reciver....and dean ant.... and TP 2100.....

I'm a 3D flyer yet....just sport fly with loop and roll.....how is the stock bush motor ??? what speed contorl do you need to fly the stock bruh motor....????
12-14-2005 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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You'll need a brushed motor controller to go with the stock brushed motor. You can't run a brushed motor with a BL ESC. You'll probably need something on the order of a 30/35 amp brushed controller to fly with the stock motor.

I'm hoping that my EP gets here today. It was shipped last Thursday. The rest of the stuff I ordered for it is supposed to show up today and tomorrow if I can believe the UPS tracking software.

I'm putting HS 56 servos in it, an Electron 6 RX, CC35, and a GY401 for electronics. I've also ordered a JGF 450TH and an Align 430L/3550 motor to try out in it . Both motors have 1/8th inch shafts (3.17mm).

For battery power I'm going to use my TP2100 Gen II and a KoKam 2000 high discharge rate pack until Vinnie at JGF gets in more of his $50 2000 mah LiPos. I'll probably buy a couple of those to double my battery collection.

You'll need some pinions to experiment with. Pinions are available from Tower Hobbies (and probably LHS that is big into RC electric cars). Robinson Racing makes all sorts of pinions with an 1/8th inch bore and 64 DP (0.4 module). I've ordered an assortment of pinions ranging from 19 to 23 teeth to try out with the motors, as both motors are in the 3500 KV range. The number of teeth may need to be tweaked, but I'll have to wait till I can fire mine up.

Chris at RC Heliworks, and Hoverking are working furiously to get their EPs flight tested so they can do a proper review. We'll know more when their flight testing is complete.

As I get mine together, I too, will review the EP and start posting what I can to help.


You seem to have most of what you need to get your EP up and running, all you need is a motor and pinion, it appears.

Dave
12-14-2005 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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Wheeeeeeee ----

The postman finally capitulated and delivered my EP 400 about 30 minutes ago.

Haven't opened the box yet, but look out, here I come......


Dave
12-14-2005 Over year old.
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rpat
Veteran
Location: Weirton, W. Va.

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Dave , you dog....let us know what you come up with.
Rich
12-14-2005 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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Quote 
...you dog....


Owoooooooooooooooooo!

I'm even playing hooky from work today. Pretty nasty snow storm and I've got to drive my wife to the airport in a bit, then come home and play babysitter...hmmmmmm....wonder how I'll pass the time?

I think the electronics and most of the other goodies are supposed to show up via UPS this afternoon.

Dave
12-14-2005 Over year old.
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rpat
Veteran
Location: Weirton, W. Va.

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I,ve been waiting for my motor to come in for my E3D. It has been over two weeks and the guy keeps telling me that he sent it airmail....he must have meant carrier pigeon!
12-14-2005 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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Christmas comes early -- first the postman brings my EP, now he just delivered a 450TH and a 430L motor.....wheeeeeeeee. Heaven tomorrow, as the radio stuff hits my mailbox.

Dave
12-14-2005 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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I've started unpacking the EP400 and taking pictures along the way. I've posted the first batch up on my gallery.



More closeups on the way as I build and fly. I'll also be shooting some size comparisons between the EP and a T-REX 450X-V2 here.

Already, the EP MR blades are about 20 mm shorter than the Align 315 woodies. Still have to check the root dimension and a few other dimensions, maybe some of those Mavrikk glass T-Rex blades will fit, and be a bit longer in the process for more disc area.

Dave
12-14-2005 Over year old.
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helibob
Heliman
Location: White Plains, NY

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If you use the HS56 servo mount the Aileron servo first, you may need to add a spacer so it doen't rub the Main shaft. Another hint. Connect the Elv servo to the receiver so you can get the servo arm level at mid stick, then mount it. The Ep tends to be a bit tail heavy. Mount your front battery holder forward.
If you get a tail wobbble, increase the head speed.

Expect about 10+ min flying w/stock motor.

It's a sweet flyer

Fly Now, Pay Later. Crashing is just a way of not forgetting how it was built.
12-14-2005 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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Thanks for the tips, Helibob --

I'm going for the gusto, none of this stock motor for me...I got a 450TH and a 430L in the mail this afternoon. And a bag of pinions also showed up UPS this afternoon. (I didn't want to spring for a brushed ESC and NiMh/NiCd pack, so I went to the front of the line and am going brushless.

At this point, I've got a second wave of pics to post on my gallery, some side-by-side comparisons against a T-Rex 450X-V2. The two choppers are suprisingly close in size to each other. When I get this EP ready to go, I'm also going to post some weight comparisons.

Dave
12-15-2005 Over year old.
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helibob
Heliman
Location: White Plains, NY

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The weights are very close. I'm using a 2200 tanic in both. Works fine with the brushed motor.

Fly Now, Pay Later. Crashing is just a way of not forgetting how it was built.
12-15-2005 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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Added more pictures to the gallery. Some side-by-side comparisons with a T-Rex 450X-V2.

As for the kit, it is nearly an RTF heli, not an ARF. About all that is left for the buyer to do is install the electronics, paint and assemble the canopy, and bolt on the rotor blades.

I've read a lot about slop in the head stuff. I'll find out more about this in the next few days, but right now, with no electronics in it, the head controls seem to be quite slop-free. Some have reported that the balls on the swash don't quite fit the plastic links -- the plastic links are "too big". They do move a tiny bit if you tug on them, but the are firmly held on the ball, and at least at this point, don't appear to contribute any real slop to the control system.

I've also read about slop in the washout and pitch slider mechanism. Again, at this point, everything is ship-shape and I don't notice any play in the mechanism.

Slop, if any, will show up as I get the servos installed, and afterwards, as I get some air-time on the mechanics.

I am, at this point of the build, impressed at how free the entire MR control system is when compared to the two T-Rex helis I own. I am also impressed with the obvious quality of parts in this kit as compared to that of the Align kits. The plastic is much better grade, parts fit is standard Kyosho quality

The main rotor gear train is unique. The motor pinion drives a molded gear that contains a 20-tooth pinion, and a larger 67 tooth spur gear. The motor's pinion gear meshes with the 67-tooth spur. When the 67-tooth spur turns, the 20-tooth pinion molded below meshes with a 105-tooth spur that contains the one-way clutch, and that drives the MR shaft.

The 20-tooth to 105-tooth gear set provides a fixed reduction ratio of 5.25:1. The number of teeth on the motor pinion (which can vary from 16 to 50 teeth -based upon a search for 64 pitch pinions with an 1/8 inch bore), coupled with the 67-tooth spur gives the builder an easy method to vary the overall gear reduction.

With a 20-tooth pinion driving the 67-tooth spur, there is an intermediate reduction ratio of 3.35:1. The 3.35:1 ratio coupled with the fixed 5.25:1 reduction yields an out-of-the-box overall reduction ratio of 17.58:1.

Poking around on the Tower Hobbies website, looking for 64 pitch pinions with an 1/8th inch bore shows that you can pick up pinions in one-tooth increments from 16 to 50 teeth. This means the EP 400 can be run with an overall reduction ratio in the range of 7.035: 1 up to 22:1. Seems that with this kind of versatility, we ought to be able to find a motor/pinion combo that works well in the EP.

The main rotor hub looks to be a miniaturized copy of the Caliber 30 head. The kit ships with some alternate parts to allow the damping in the head to be altered easily. The dampers are O-rings ala the T-Rex, but the O-rings are much larger and more robust than those in the T-Rex.

The MR grips look like modified TR grips from a Caliber 30. The TR pitch slider looks to be much more precise and slop free than the original T-Rex sliders. The entire TR assembly and control system seems to be executed much better than the plastic T-Rex equivalents.

The drive system for the TR belt is very robust compared to the T-Rex.

The kit main frames are milled from 1mm thick Carbon Fiber. I haven't installed any of the electronics (UPS says they arrive tomorrow) but there appears to be plenty of room for the various goodies. I'll post pics on the radio installation when that part of the build is finished.

The canopy is a two-piece affair, consisting of clear top and bottom halves. These can be masked and painted from the inside, harking back to the old Schluter Heliboy / Superior / HeliStar/ Miniboy /Champion...days. The halves are held together by stickers (tape) instead of glue. Wonder how that will hold up? I haven't looked closely at the plastic to see what it might be made from, or how paintable it is.

The main rotor blades look functional. As can be seen in some of the photos I posted in my gallery, the blades are wood, covered with a clear heat shrink material. The blades lack a plastic root reinforcement. The T-Rex started out this way, but Align has gravitated to making wood blades with a plastic root reinforcement. A small brass bushing fits into the hole in the blade root, and it is through this bushing that the MR blade bolts go. The MR blade bolts thread into the lower part of the MR grip. I guess this is functional. Time will tell.

With regard to the MR blades, I'd prefer a good, solid MR blade root reinforcement over the simple brass bushing with these wood blades. I'd also prefer that the MR blade bolt thread into a small hex lock nut as the T-Rex and most other helis these days do. Kyosho should add the reinforcement plates as this would not only improve the strength of the root, but would also improve the fit of the blades in the MR grips. I believe there are some CF blades in the works. It may be possible to put some Mavrikk 305 mm CF blades on the EP, but at this point I don't know if the added length (about 20 mm per blade) would cause problems with smacking the TR blades.

Main rotor collective pitch is accomplished by using a sliding rod that moves in a milled out slot in the main rotor shaft. This reminds me of the way the older Schluter helis achieved collective control. It worked quite well for them, I expect it to be trouble free here, as well.

Someone complained about the plastic swash and the plastic uniball that the swash swivels on. The swash doesn't look all that bad, and the ball appears to be either a nylon or a delrin type material. I would expect this to actually be a trouble-free system and fairly rugged. Time again, will tell.

A close look at pics of the head and TR reveals that Kyosho has had the Z-bend machine working overtime. Since the kit is new and has NO time on it, I am somewhat impressed at how tight the control system is -- I would have expected a lot of slop from the Z-bends. Perhaps time will tell how well this works out. Kyosho should rethink the Z-bend thing and find a way to get some decent ball links into the head and the TR system. This would make for much more satisfied customers in the long-run.

The motor mouting method and accessibility of the mount screws is by far much better than the T-Rex. The screws for the motor are readily available without having to fish around through the pitch mechanism as in the T-Rex. This should make motor experimentation a breeze, as it is easy to swap out motors. The motor mount itself has slotted holes to allow for a wide range of pinion diameters. And the slots for the motor mount screws actually line up with the mounting holes on the motors, they don't have to be hogged out as in the T-Rex motor mount.

Size-wise, if you look at the pics in my gallery, the EP400 is nearly identical to the T-Rex. Side-by-side comparison shows that the overall length, width and height are comparable. I haven't measured the rotor diameter, the TR diameter, or the flybar diameter, they look to be very close. Weight comparisons can't be made until I get the electronics installed.

Well, time to wind this down for now. More to come as I install some Hitec HS 56 servos, an Electron 6 RX, a GY401 gyro, and a Castle Creations Phoenix 35 ESC.

I think I'll toss a coin to see which motor to try first. The Align 430L/3550 or the JGF 450TH.

Flight tests may be delayed a bit due to the crappy Iowa winter weather. Nothing like wet heavy snow in the morning followed by drizzle in the mid-afternoon. I guess it beats the six or so inches of light, fluffy snow of last week, simply because it's not below zero in the morning!

Dave
12-15-2005 Over year old.
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Chem Geek
Senior Heliman
Location: Sarasota, FL

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Geez Dave, great review, but aren't your fingers tired!? Nice to hear about all the various gear ratio options, seems like one of a few helis that can really use anything from a high kv screamer to a low(er) kv outrunner.
12-15-2005 Over year old.
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rayysmans
Senior Heliman
Location: Michigan

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I will be also puting my together sometime this week...it seem to be a very nice heli....sofar
12-16-2005 Over year old.
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Sm1nts2escape
Heliman
Location: WV

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I want to get into flying rc heli's and I was thinking about going with the ep caliber 400

http://www.helihobby.com/html/ep_caliber_m24_.html

I have flown rc planes in the past and have always wanted to get into flying heli's.I am not sure if I want to go nitro .30 or .50 or .60 or maybe electric.I heard that the ep 400 is a good flyer and 3d capable.I am a fast learner and good with my hands so I want to get something that will be powerful and have 3d flying capabilities.I am not sure if I should start out with a used heli like a concept 30 off ebay and learn with that or just go out and buy something new.I have a budjet and I don't want to go over 850.00 but I want the best for my money and something that can be upgraded and (played with) so I don't get bored of it.I would like to get started within a month and need alot of help cause I don't know any basics or (heli talk).I appreciate all help.Thanks
04-06-2006 Over year old.
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dkshema
rrMaster
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

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If you want to stick with electric micros, the EP400 would be useful as a first heli, it has better manners in the air than the T-Rex (much smoother, flies like its bigger nitro brothers).

As for 3D capable, it depends on your definition. It will loop, roll, fly inverted and do a few other tricks, but when it comes to 3D performance, it isn't a T-Rex! The T-rex makes up in its 3D ability what it lacks in the way of a nice, easy to fly heli for beginners.

So, it's a trade-off. If you want to look at the EP 400, warts and all, go to my gallery, there are about 80 pictures of it during my build. Also, go read this thread:

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t221046p1/

I started that thread as a build and tip thread for the EP. It has a lot of good info in it.

Also, don't start out with the stock brushed motor, you'll be disappointed. Put something like a Just Go Fly 400DH motor, run a 23 or 24 tooth pinion, use a decent speed control and LiPo batteries capable of at least a 12-15C continuous discharge rate. Use a Futaba GY401 gyro, and at least Hitec HS56 servos on the MR head, and a decent smaller servo on the TR control.

Move the battery pack up front as shown in the thread above, you'll have a small heli that flies pretty nice, but could do better.

If you decide to go the T-Rex route, the XL is a good place to start. Just beware that the quality of Align parts is all over the map, and the swashplates have a tendency to come apart in the air (kind of like the steerting wheel coming off in your hands while driving on a snaking moutain road). Put an Align 430L/3550 KV motor in it with either an 11 or 13 tooth pinion, you'll have fun.

I think Chris at RC Heliworks would do a much better job of supporting your EP than Helihobby, by the way.

Dave
04-07-2006 Over year old.
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Sm1nts2escape
Heliman
Location: WV

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You said the swashplates come loose?That doesn't sound good.Is there any way to avoid this?I definitely think I would go with the trex se even though the caliber ep has better looks.Are there any different body's available for the trex?The biggest things for me are the power,manuverability,and flight time.I want to be able to fly outside and I remember electric planes just didn't have the power or flight time of a nitro.I would be scared of the wind blowing it all around.
04-07-2006 Over year old.
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Sm1nts2escape
Heliman
Location: WV

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http://www.helihobby.com/html/trex_helicopter.html

What kit would be best for 3d flight?
04-07-2006 Over year old.
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e-New & Emerging Electrics > EP 400 help ???
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