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Experience RC . Heli-Max . Hobby Hut

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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Power problem on ECO 8
 
 
atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

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looking at your throttle curves id say that you would have to expect the headspeed to drop in st1 and st2 as you have a flat throttle curve so the speed would drop going int pitch and speed up going out of pitch if you know what i mean.

i have something like 0, 30, 50, 60 in norm. 66, 55, 33, 55, 66 in idl-1 and 72.5, 60.5, 36.5, 60.5, 72.5 in idl-2

which gives me a really constant headspeeds of 1650, 1750 and 1850 rpm right the way through 0 to +/- 10.5 degrees of pitch

thats just my tuppence though and its probably wrong lol



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
02-02-2006 Over year old.
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Brett Sumpter
Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

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If he's using governor mode that flat throttle curve is correct - the esc will try & maintain that rpm, within the limits of what the motor & battery are capable of.

Is the red light on the esc coming on before your rpm starts bleeding off? If so, you're hitting max power & it just doesn't have anything else left - if you aren't getting the light, there's more available.
02-03-2006 Over year old.
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jrvander
Veteran
Location: Mystic, CT

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ATV's and red lights and such

Rob T,
Ok, I checked my settings, all of my travel adjustments are all at 100% across the board. I don't remember if the red light is flashing or solid the last time I flew, but i'm going to check that this saturday hopefully if the weather permits. I'm going to set the pitch at zero and run the throttle to 100%, attempt to get an accurate headspeed and look for the red indicator light. The guy from Castle said to set the esc throttle to fixed, I'll try the gov. mode when I've got decent headspeed.
The watt meter is looking better and better every day now! I only need ot settle on the model now, this will help me figure this out. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks!

- Jon

(funny quote here)
02-03-2006 Over year old.
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Rob_T
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

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Maximum on travel adjust is 150%.
02-03-2006 Over year old.
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jrvander
Veteran
Location: Mystic, CT

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Rob T,
I知 using 3 servo, 120 degree ccpm swash mixing. I知 not sure how adjusting the throttle servo settings will affect the esc but I知 willing to give it a try. I値l bump up the throttle travel advance to 150% pos/neg and see if that helps my throttle response. The weather has turned nasty here, so I知 not sure when I can test this out but I値l keep you posted.

ATB,
Where did you locate the thrust bearings for the head? I searched Boca bearings (the supplier for the tail rotor thrust bearnings), but they don't have anything in a 4x11x4. Any thoughts?

- Jon

(funny quote here)
02-03-2006 Over year old.
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atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

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i just got hold hold of some from the internet doing a google search ill sort the reciept out and post it for you they cost about 」5 each for main and about 5.50 each for the tail too. to fasten the tail ones on i used some robbe 2mm screws and to fasten the main on i got some t-nuts to fit i was a bit lucky findin them though as i couldnt find them anywhere and had to take a bed down in the spare room (made it into a nursery as were having another monster) it just so happened that the header and footer of the bed were held together using the exact size needed lol.

meanwhile you can get them from here too http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/ for about 」6 for main im not sure though if they do the tail thrust bearings.

ill sort it out anyway and let you know as soon as i get into the cupboard amoingst all of me reciepts

hope this helps a little



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
02-03-2006 Over year old.
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Rob_T
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before or not, but next time you try it, look to see if the red light comes on on the ESC to indicate full power. If you're not getting the red light when the head speed starts to drop then the problem is to figure out why the ESC is holding back, if you are getting the red light then the problem is possibly lack of power from one of the other components.

Edit: sorry Brett, I didn't notice you'd already asked the same question.
02-03-2006 Over year old.
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jrvander
Veteran
Location: Mystic, CT

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head thrust bearings

ATB,
I have a set of tail rotor thrust bearings coming from Boca, about $21 USD for the pair, but they don't have the 4x11x4. The site you provided had a thrust bearing listed under the Ikarus section but it was a 4x10x4. Are these suitable or are they too small? I think half a mil on either side would be too much play and provide little support but I'm new to the thrust bearing/eco world so I will defer to the wiser heads.

I'm going to have my eyes glued to the ESC at the next test flight for that darned red light! More to come...

- Jon

(funny quote here)
02-03-2006 Over year old.
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atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

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Hi. ive had the headspeed at 2100 and it all held together although the heli was a bit jumpy at that headspped it was a mistake with my calculations also when i first went brushless i thought more speed the better so i maxed everything the first time it spooled it went to 2700 rpm so i dropped it down a lot but the thrust bearings and all that held.

and that is the 4*10*4 ones.

hope this helps a bit



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
02-04-2006 Over year old.
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jrvander
Veteran
Location: Mystic, CT

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It Flies!

Flies like a champ!
Ok, here's what happened; To answer the previous question, the ESC red light comes on at full throttle, so it's getting max power to the motor. The motor just isn't strong enough at 1480rpm/v to get a decent headspeed with 3s batteries, so I found a 22/20/3H for a decent price and dropped that motor in. Success! It gets a solid constant headspeed of 1675 under load and flies like a completely different bird. Great power, cyclic response, and climbs well. When we brouht it down, it was a little warm but not hot on the heatsink.

The 1675 headspeed is about 92% of the calculated no-load speed:
[(1850*11.1*16)/180]*0.92 = 1679 rpm. I'll have to get a wattmeter to determine if that's an indicator of drivetrain friction or the batteries putting out a little more than the nominal 11.1v.

I imagine the 22/20/4 would work well on a 4s or a 12 cell pack, but I've already invested a bunch in the 3s Duralite batteries which work nicely with the new set up. So it's heading to the RR classifids and/or Flea-bay.

I installed the thrust bearings in the head and tail, a little costly but it gives me some peace of mind that when it's hovering in front of me it won't sling a rotor blade in my face. CMEHobbies.com has the head thrust bearing kit with T-nuts, and the tail bearings from Boca, although VBX has them for less.

To Recap my setup;
Stock frame with brace and aluminum swash
Mega 22/20/3H motor, 1850 rpm/v
CC 45 ESC on fixed calibration, current limiting disabled
16t pinion
40t tail gear - too fast now, we had to tune it down a bunch.
MAH CF blades.
Head and tail thrust bearings

Thanks to all those who were kind enough to contribute their knowledge, I learned a bit from everyone!
- Jon

(funny quote here)
02-17-2006 Over year old.
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atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

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I'm glad you got it sorted.

the eco really is a pleasure to fly at 1650-1700rpm mine flies normally at about 1750 i up it sometimes to 1850 if its howling a gale though and still flies ok.

have you got the tail braces and tail mounted servo fitted these make a bigger difference than i though they would.



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
02-17-2006 Over year old.
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jrvander
Veteran
Location: Mystic, CT

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pics to come

I'd post a couple of pics but I'm not smart enough. Maybe on Monday I'll start building a gallery. I have the tail mounted servo and boom supports - pretty much all the cheap and effective upgrades that are supposed to make it fly better but not much for looks. Even my 120 degree brackets are homemade; pretty uglly. The wind was gusting at 50 mph today so no flying today. Maybe in a few days. Thanks again!
- Jon

(funny quote here)
02-18-2006 Over year old.
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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Power problem on ECO 8
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