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CANOMOD . Experience RC . Heli-Max

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Scale Model RC Helicopters > Multi-blade heads & gyros???????
 
 
Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Ahhh, at last.

When I ask you to explain your point clearly and concisely, you elect to leave the scene.

Now I understand, there was no point.

Have a nice day, I am going to build a scale helicopter.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org
10-14-2005 Over year old.
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AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Do you stand on the hill and beat your chest too ?

Sadly, you understand nothing.
10-14-2005 Over year old.
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erichevy
Veteran
Location: Zevenhoven The Netherlands

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Guy's please,
I'am quite new to multbladed heads. I've a Robbe Hughes 300c 3bladed head with mechanics from the Robbe futura together with a Zenoah G230.
It's the most beautifull heli I have, but the most difficult to fly.
The Robbe futura is a Schluter design and therefore it's got the 90degree advance phasing by design already!
My question is, is it possible to "ease" the steering by placing a gyro on the elevator or/and aileron without the worries about phasing.
My thoughts KISS, is this possible without the Helitronics??
Thanks,
Eric.
10-31-2005 Over year old.
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AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yes, you can ease the cyclic steering with gyros but phasing is something else which needs to be corrected with more head speed.

See my site www.AirWolfRC.com and click on the No Flybar link.

Wolfgang
10-31-2005 Over year old.
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Makiedog
Senior Heliman
Location: Minneapolis

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Can't resist to chime in...

Wolfgang, your one grand statement (quoted below) is the clearest testiment to how senseless and illogical your position is:

"Peter, you seem willing to let Joel do your thinking for you but not me."

Joel IS the manufacturer. Why wouldn't anyone, who wants to buy his product let him do the thinking, and in this case, recommendation? Whether or not you agree with the recommendation is beside the point.

Case in point: the airlines forbid people to turn on cell phones during flight, for fear of interfering with avionics. There's no definitive proof regarding this but in the interest of safety, they want to err on the safe side.

Pat L
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		To put in crass and terse terms;

You seem to believe it's ok to be lazy and claim it's in the interest of safety. I don't.

You seem to think that's logical, I don't.

Wolfgang
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		You helicopter has 45 degrees phasing built in and this should be enough to allow you to get the phasing correct by altering the position of the swashplate lock. The pushrods will be near vertical when the phasing is correct.

Go here

http://scalehelicopters.org/

and look up multiblade heads on the sidebar and that will tell you how to ensure the phasing is correct.

Dont try and adjust the phasing with the headspeed. To check everything is correct, I copy the model to a blank area on the Tx and then change the pitch curve so it is flat at zero degrees pitch. Then you can check the phasing by moving the cyclic and watching the disk direction while the machine is still on the ground and the head is up to your selected flying speed. If it moves to one side while moving only the elevator, move the swashlock to compensate.

You can stabilise the machine by adding a gyro in series with the elevator. If I am going to do this I like to use a gyro which has transmitter adjustable gain as it is more accurate but you can use a cheaper gyro if you want. Around 10% gain is usually sufficient.

You can fit another gyro on the aileron, but I have found that they dont make a great deal of difference. However, I have never tried one on the Robbe system with the 3 blade head.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Peter, my whole point is that if the phasing changes with the head speed, then the head speed is too low. Put some weight in the blades and/or increase the head speed.

Wolfgang
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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I Hate Forums
Heliman
Location: Houston

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		i have been told that driving while drunk and shooting heroin MAY IN SOME RARE CASES GET ME KILLED, but i dont care. im going to try it anyway and find out for myself, ignoring others experience...i will report back if i am not dead.

I also commend joels recommendation, and his commitment to his customers success with his product.
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Eric

The other thing you can do to improve the stability of the helicopter is to improve the rotor system. I have found that OF heads and blades make a big difference to the way the helicopter flies. The OF blades should work very well with the Robbe 3 blade head.

The guy who makes the OF stuff is Mr Hoffmann from Germany and his phone number is +49 7771 58 88. He doesn't speak English and he doesn't have a web site. If you need more information, details of his products are on Starwood scale models web site.

For me to help you further I would need to know what size blades you are using and what the rotor speed is.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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erichevy
Veteran
Location: Zevenhoven The Netherlands

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hello Peter,
The blades I use are from Robbe. nr S 2939 they are an pair and I got 2 sets.
They are for Right turning heads.
Blades are 800mm long and the chord is 62mm.
I realy don't know what rotorspeed I have (people are too scarred to come close when I'am flying) ha ha.
I love the way 2 bladed heads (with stabs) fly.
Coincidence is that a friend of mine crashed his Robbe Futura (total loss) and It's seems easier to convert back to 2 blades using his 2 bladed rotor head.
Or is this cheating. It's the easiest, cheapest and most nice to fly with then.
It's realy SCEARY to fly with now, and hardly do I fly with it. While it is an increddible beautifull scale Heli(Robbe Hughes 300C Zenoah G230)
Nice film from a Hughes 300C:
http://libra.technology.users.btope...om/DRKJ2002.WMV
Eric.
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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erichevy
Veteran
Location: Zevenhoven The Netherlands

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Peter,
You stated:
Dont try and adjust the phasing with the headspeed. To check everything is correct, I copy the model to a blank area on the Tx and then change the pitch curve so it is flat at zero degrees pitch. Then you can check the phasing by moving the cyclic and watching the disk direction while the machine is still on the ground and the head is up to your selected flying speed. If it moves to one side while moving only the elevator, move the swashlock to compensate.

My question is this;
We agree that 45 degree phasing is already there.
What happens with this schluter disign is this:
If I push the elevator stick forward (nick) the swash goes simultaniously to the left and forward and so does the rotor disk!
This makes no sence to me because a normal (2 bladed) rotordisk goes forward only!
What do I have to do???
James gave me advice to phase by: putting one blade (of three)excactly over the tailboom and while giving elevator this blade should not move.
I did this by having to advancing the swashplate driver aprox. 1/8th.
(Robbe sets the swashplate-driver in line with one blade)
Eric.
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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rudyr
Heliman
Location: Gardena Ca USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Inerested in the robbe 3 blade head. What is the size and mainshaft dia. Is it plastic or aluminum.For scale osprey project need to use 600-650mm blades. Will this work? Also when using a gyro can or should this be used in HH or rate?
Rudy

If you haven't done it 3 times your just getting started
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Eric

If the disk stays slightly to one side, you need to adjust the swash lock to the other side by the same number of degrees. That will correct the phase timing.

If the disk moves slightly to one side and then forward and stays forward, then that is normal, and is gyroscopic precession taking effect. It is also what makes the heli difficult to fly.

I have two of these types of heli, the 300C like yours and the Alouette. On both of them I use the 2 blade head, 800mm Vario wide chord blades and lots of weight on the flybar. I have just rebuilt my Alouette because I wore the old one out. It was so well used, the boom was cracking up and the windows falling out of the cabin. I loved the way that heli flew.

The 300C is all in pieces after a hit at Circumgyration smashed it into the ground. A new 300C kit is sitting beside the wreckage waiting for a major rebuild. That was another heli I loved to fly. I sold it to someone and pretty soon afterwards I bought it back again.

Before I sold it, I did try the 3 blade head on it, for about 30 seconds. Then I took it off and put the 2 blade back on. Like you I used Robbe 800mm blades and it totally spoilt the heli. The guy who bought it, bought the 3 blade head and blades as well, and soon sold them to someone else.

I suggest you fit gyros to the elevator and aileron servos if you have them and see what happens. Someone else is seriously considering fitting the 3 blade head to the Alouette and I am trying very hard to persuade him not to do it, but if gyros make it fly nice, it might be a way to go.

I do have as set of three 800mm RH OF blades which are unused if you want to try them, I can let you have them for a good price. I was going to fit them to an electric Alouette but the motor wont spool them up, they are so heavy. The blades weigh 285gm

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Rudy

The Robbe head has a metal hub with plastic blade holders. It is for a 10 mm mainshaft and is designed to run with 800mm blades so will cope with 600-650 blades fine. You may need spacers in the roots as they are 14mm and the bolts are 4mm.

The gyro should not be in HH mode according to Joel.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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erichevy
Veteran
Location: Zevenhoven The Netherlands

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hello Peter,
Are you by any change talking about Jason with his Alouette?
Jason Lewis and I are corressponding about the habits of this multi head.
See Jason this is what I'am talking about, and where I'am afraid of.
Those mult bladed heads (robbe 3 blade) are so very difficult to fly.
If I "understand" Peter right there are a vew persons disappointed by these Robbe head.
I will try and find out with 1 and maybe 2 gyro's on the cyclic how the Hughes will respond otherwise I convert her to a regular 2 blade head.
Eric.
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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erichevy
Veteran
Location: Zevenhoven The Netherlands

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Peter,
First, that's quite a story about your Hughes!
Special the 30 second flight you had with the 3 blade head.

be honest with me, I'am already leaning towards the idea of converting to two blades.
So far, you have the expierience of flying both types of rotorheads.
Sure, the 3 blade is beautifull for the looks, or should I go for the 2 blade head, wich will fly the best.
HELP........... gyro's and threeblades or plain two blade.......HELP
Eric.
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		If I were you and really wanted a 3 blade system, I would buy the OF blades and try that. Then if I were not happy, I would add gyros. Then if I was still not happy, I would sell it all to Jason and fit the 2 blade system back on.

You cant tell how many blades there are on your heli when it is flying and the 2 blade system flies so nicely, I wont change mine. The thing is that the models cannot really be highly detailed scale machines as the servo tray comes into the cockpit too much, so if its not scale, why bother with the 3 blade head and ruin a beautiful flying heli.

I enjoy flying mine so much they get worn out. I will let anyone fly them, they are so easy and they are so much fun and relaxing at the same time.

I have 3 blade helis which fly nicely, but they have big heavy blades. 950mm long and 550 gm and I think changing the light Robbe blades for the much heavier OF blades would help a lot.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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erichevy
Veteran
Location: Zevenhoven The Netherlands

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanx for your answer Peter,

XXX,You cant tell how many blades there are on your heli when it is flying and the 2 blade system flies so nicely, I wont change mine. The thing is that the models cannot really be highly detailed scale machines as the servo tray comes into the cockpit too much, so if its not scale, why bother with the 3 blade head and ruin a beautiful flying heli.,XXX

You hit the nail on it's (2bladed)head Peter,
I'am beginning to get used by the tought only.
I do also have a X-cell gasser wich is a delight to fly, I want to do this with the Hughes also.
If I'am making a slow turn with the Hughes right now with some wind it scares the h.ll out of you most of the time.
There.....I've sayd it, I'am convinced.
Thanks Peter and Lewis and Runryder!!
11-06-2005 Over year old.
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AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Peter, can you fill me in on these "OF" blades. What is different about them and where does one get them.

Wolfgang
11-07-2005 Over year old.
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Scale Model RC Helicopters > Multi-blade heads & gyros???????
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