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Bergen R/C Helicopters > Tail setup w/ 401 and 9254 servo on Bergen Heli's
 
 
PaulH-MA
Veteran
Location: Boston, MA

The delay is only for non-digital servos. If you're using a 9254, you should be in digital mode, which is supposed to disable the delay setting completely.

--Paul

TREX 450
Bergen Intrepid Gasser x2
10-02-2005 12:55 AM
 
 
AdamB
Heliman
Location: Reading, PA

If you turn up the delay, you cancel out the benefit of running a super fast servo. Like I posted before, I think the servo feels notchy, but in actuality isn't. Like an optical illusion, but only mechanical.

I belive the drift is caused by the GY401 getting hit with vibs or high frequency interference. Actually, you may want to check that your battery is capable of putting out enough umph (for lack of better scientific term) to run the digitals properly. If the Gy401 senses low current it will go out of HH. Make sure you battery has a low internal impedance rating, I use a 3300 mah NiMH with an internal impedance of 4mOhms. Sometimes if you run the NiMHbatteries, they have high internal impedance and can't flow enough current (or so I've read anyway.)

Anyhow, since I've switch to the current battery set-up, I haven't had a drift issue in my Quick. Can't speak for the Bergen since it is still under assembly.

It's because of my toys that I have to work!
10-02-2005 09:10 AM
 
 
BigNev
Heliman
Location: Hertfordshire -U.K.

Hi All
Hope you don't mind me joining in on this thread.
I have just bought and rebuilt a Bergen gasser, I don't know how old this version is but it runs g231 with a belt drive tail (instructions call it sport) I have fully rebuilt the airframe with new bearings in every thing - screened the HT circuit - earthed the tail boom - revlock with stator gator. The whole rebuild went very well.
I have a new CSM560 V4 Gyro & tried a brand new 9254 & 8700G.
My tail response is the same as described, tail flicks in HH and is not very responsive. My friend who is an A1 pilot has been helping me with this and we have changed & reconfigured the heli many times to no real benefit. (3 different gyro's + 4 servo's)
Finally a re-think on the tail slider mech - changed to rocket city ball links as these are much thinner at the ends than the ones on the tail slider assy as standard.
This had a very beneficial effect the tail is very much better than before, its still not as smooth as my other heli's so I am going to try to udgrade it to a more rigid style , like the raptor maybe.
I may just be unlucky with this binding, but the mechanism with the ball links as on my version does seem to bind under load.
P.S. the whole assy is correctly built and set up, all new parts in the tail assy when it was re-built - BUT ! you can see the pottential for the assy to bind as the ball links allow the slider to be forced against the drive shaft at certain points in its rotation.
No intention to upset any one, hope I am on the right track as I am very pleased with my Bergen, its just this tail problem.
Happy Flying everyone - Left stick is up !
10-03-2005 11:57 AM
 
 
Chris Bergen
Elite Veteran
Location: location

I would be interested in seeing pictures of your "standard" ball links. Your statement of Rocket City links being thinner than stock doesn't sound right.

We have also found the CSM Gyros difficult to set up on gassers due to their sensitivity. What I mean is the CSM gyro seem to not like the vibes from gasser engines.

I like CSM's on my glow heli's, but have fits with it on the gasser.

Chris Bergen
10-03-2005 01:58 PM
 
 
Gary Travis
Veteran
Location: Utah

Chris

I think you are on the right track with the CSM, I have had many of them on glow helicopters but was never able to get it just right on the gasser. One of the first Bergen gassers I flew was the old sport model wich belonged to someone else and I can say that when set up correctly it flys as well as any other. Stay with it and you will see what I mean!!
Gary

Bergen R/C Helicopters Duralite Batteries V-blades Magnum Fuels Wren Turbinesl
10-03-2005 02:20 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Bergen50UK
Heliman
Location: West Midlands UK

I have just had a CSM 560 micro gyro upgraded to version 4 software and the nice guys at CSM also sent me a mount to use on my gasser which they had developed for 90 size glow machines. Its basically a metal plate about 25mm square which is attached to gyro by double sided tape and then attached to heli by 4 pads of CSM gyro tape at each corner - kinda puts the gyro in 4 legs if that makes any sense
When I get the gasser finished I'll let you know if it works.
On the subject of tail binding with the belt drive machine I have just reworked the tail on my 46 and it now works smooth as silk, I am also using a CSM 560 V4 gyro (with 9254) on that which is now rock solid. I changed the standard delrin bellcrank for an alloy one with ballraces and paid special attention to the ball links connecting pitch slider to blade grips as I found these needed trimming to stop binding.

PS: Gary, as I have to install electrics and set up my gasser ( non EB model but with G26) I could do with one of your setup videos so perhaps you could let me know how I can get a copy. I have no experience with gassers, although Larry has given me some fuel mixture ratios

Tim
10-03-2005 03:04 PM
 
 
RV-4Mike
Senior Heliman
Location: San Diego, Ca.

Andy01423,

Yes I setup the gyro/tail per Chris' and Futaba recommendation which requires adjusting for zero drift in rate mode. Still get drift when switching back to HH.

AdamB,

I'm thinking that you might have the right idea and that it's a vibration issue. My EB doesnt have the "silky smooth" operation that others here have described for their Bergens. I'm going through the whole setup again trying to figure out where the vibes may be coming from. Currently the heli is unflyable while I'm waiting for a replacement bearing from Bergen.

For battery I'm using a 4000mah 2S LiPo and regulator. The regulator is a Ubec made for powering the rx/gyro/servos off the battery on electrics. Far as I can tell this setup is working fine.
10-03-2005 04:42 PM
 
 
BigNev
Heliman
Location: Hertfordshire -U.K.

done some more work on the binding of the tail mech over the last 2 days, I would suggest that you try reworking this again. after 3 attempts at getting it smooth I have finally cracked it.
did a test flight this morning and the tail is silky smooth, no flicking, good smooth turns, good HH.
all the problems I had were just down to the binding, my CSM 560 v4 - JR8700G works fine. standard motor with canfield balancer (heli still vibes a bit)
what a relief to get it sorted, I had got to the stage of nearly giving up. after spending a large wad on brand new gyro and servo's plus all the other bits and bobs.
it ended up being 2 new rocket city ball links, 2 Mr G link balls (these have a taller stand of than the Bergen ones, and a couple of shims from my old model car electric motor spares bag. now the whole linkage set is at 90 degrees so there is no twist in the mech so "0" bindding
very pleased with my belt drive Bergen Sport
Thank you Bergen !
10-05-2005 04:34 PM
 
 
Chris Bergen
Elite Veteran
Location: location

bump

Chris Bergen
11-14-2005 09:20 PM
 
 
Bergen50UK
Heliman
Location: West Midlands UK

Hi Chris

Any news on push pull set up procedure, got one to do shortly
11-15-2005 08:51 AM
 
 
Chris Bergen
Elite Veteran
Location: location

Since this post came back up, I remembered that I hadn't done that yet. I'm building a gasser EB for the local Nuclear power plant, I'll take pics and get 'er done.

Chris Bergen
11-15-2005 02:36 PM
 
 
Bergen50UK
Heliman
Location: West Midlands UK

Look forward to that
11-15-2005 05:48 PM
 
 
charger
Senior Heliman
Location: Spencer MA.USA

Please post the push /pull tail set-up when you get a chance please.
Thanks and happy Holiday's to all

Old chinese proverb.don't dwell on past crash, but look forward to future flight
12-30-2005 12:22 AM
 
 
gyan
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, BC Canada

Push Pull Tail Setup

Chris, is there any possibility we could have the setup for the push pull? I know your a busy guy, but I've been waiting since September last year for this & I can hardly wait for the parts CD! I know, I know ...just not enough time in the day! I'm sure when you finally get around to it, it'll be worth the wait!
01-14-2006 05:42 PM
 
 
Chris Bergen
Elite Veteran
Location: location

Bump

Chris Bergen
03-13-2006 07:52 PM
 
 
RV-4Mike
Senior Heliman
Location: San Diego, Ca.

Chris,

I'm not sure who you were bumping this for, but I'll chime in. Never did resolve the heading drift issue with my EB, but it hasnt flown since my last post in this thread, back around the October timeframe. We took possession of our Rotomotion UAV (Industrial Twin based) at that time and I've been focused on that.

Had a minor crunch with the UAV and ended up cannabalizing a couple of parts off the EB to repair it, so the EB became a hangar queen. Just recently got it back together again but havent had a chance to fly it yet. I did find a bad bearing and a couple of other issues in reassembling the EB which may have been causing the vibrations I was seeing in the heli. I'm hoping that when I do finally get to fly it again that the vibes and heading drift are cured.
03-13-2006 09:16 PM
 
 
Chris Bergen
Elite Veteran
Location: location

Have you replaced the servo?

Chris Bergen
03-13-2006 10:52 PM
 
 
Brian Bennett
Key Veteran
Location: Dugway/Tooele UT, USA

I Just caught this thread and pic Shawn offered up of the my pushpull setup on the Bergen 3D I used to have (sob sob). I would only add that the links you see in the photo were positioned to optimize accessiblity. Most of these setups I have seen have one of the servo wheel double links placed on the opposite side of the servo wheel. The P/P add-on works well, but it is absolutely imperitive that all your ball links are sized PERFECTLY otherwise you will be doing more harm than good - by introducing excess friction 4 extra balls = servo death. You are also well advised to inspect the mechanism routinely as part of your ground check.

Brian

Team MRC-Hirobo and Model Avionics Rep
03-13-2006 11:29 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RV-4Mike
Senior Heliman
Location: San Diego, Ca.

Chris,

The heli has flown with 2 different 9254s, a 9253, and a Hitec 5945MG on the TR and the heli had this drift issue with all of them. The gyro has also been replaced but no help.

The "apparent notchiness" of the 9254 that was mentioned previously is normal according to Futaba. I have 3 of these servos and all do the same thing. The 601/9251 combo on my Twin also exhibits this "apparent notchiness" but has no heading drift.

In any case, I'll get back to you if I still have a problem when I get back to flying the EB.
03-13-2006 11:57 PM
 
 
Chris Bergen
Elite Veteran
Location: location

Then my only suggestion or thoughts would be tuning, or some other setup. If there are vibes, the gyro is going to pick up on them.

I "proved" this setup this past weekend. I have been getting my 91 back up to flying specs.

This had a different tail setup than what is shown here due to it having had a different gyro and tail servo on it in a previous life!! It had a large servo wheel, and the ball on the tail bellcrank was in the middle hole. Travel was at 120 on the gyro.

While test flying it with the 401 and 9253 servo, the tail was terrible, wouldn't hold, hunting terribly. It felt as if the servo was weak. I could move the rudder stick back and forth while holding the servo still.

I swapped out the tail servos, figuring the 9253 was old and weak, putting a NEW 9254 servo in it's place. I did NOT change the setup.

Next test flight showed the tail was better, but still not flyable, matter of fact after a few minutes (appx 3) of just hovering, the tail spun around on me!!

After a quick shower and change of shorts, I decided I better follow my own advice and reset up the tail properly.

Same Gyro, same servo, proper setup procedure, the very next flight I was able to FLY the helicopter, stationary flips, rolls, backwards loops, even did an Auto (#$@^$ ran it out of gas!).

The point is, the only real differnece between the 2 flights was the small servo wheel and moving the ball on the pitch bellcrank. This made the difference between dirty shorts and flying a whole tank of fuel.

It is possible to get a "bad" gyro, servo, what have you. But to have 3 bad servos, AND 2 bad gyros, defies probability.

Chris Bergen
03-14-2006 03:50 PM
 
 
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Bergen R/C Helicopters > Tail setup w/ 401 and 9254 servo on Bergen Heli's
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