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E-flite . Fast Lad Performance . Ace Hobby

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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > 3D Pro belt-drive mod
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

That looks very nice.

Have you placed your order for the pulleys/belts yet?

The GF boom mount is brillant .
09-03-2005 Over year old.
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cudaboy_71
Elite Veteran
Location: sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		alright...the GF boom mount is in my hands now. i'll be tinkering with it over the weekend. no pulleys, gears, belts or bearing guides ordered yet. but, i've got an entire shogun heli from the boom back to work with getting something mocked up.

i'll be posting updates as they occur.

if it ain't broke…break it.
09-03-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Sorry guys, I'm retiring from here for a while. I was very very disappointed after gone to my LHS. Despite calling them every another day for 10 days in a row, they have not ordered the shogun V2 frame for me until yesterday. They said it won't be here until mid of next week. It will be too close to my trip that I won't have time to do anything with it.

Good thing is I gave Cuda a entire Shogun tail and a 3D Pro tail. He will fix his 3D Pro with stock tail and trim it out. Then piece the Shogun tail with 3DP boom to mock out a belt driven tail. Then marry the two together to see if it flies.

If I have time I will put my Shogun V2 together and fly it, so I can compare it with my moded bird. Other than that, see you all first of November and show you guys all the goodies I gather from China. Things on my hunting list include some Shogun belt drive mods, CNC parts, CF blades, scale fuses, BL ESC, and many more.
09-03-2005 Over year old.
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RCRacer
Heliman
Location: Denver

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		When asking for input on the tail system, I didn't want to start another branch on this Mod.
I will bring my question in regards to the belt drive system in this thread.

Quick update!

I think I have an adapter design that should work to add idler pulleys and mount the boom for a belt system. The purple plate is the stock HB pro upper plate.



I just did some calculations on the Tail. If we use a 10 tooth gear then we will need to make sure at Minimum the ID of the tube is at least .322". Even at that size the belt will rub on the tube edge slightly!

The other option is to add an idler pulley on the tail to reduce the distance between the belts as done on other belt drive systems.

This is using data off of Stock Drive Products. The thickness of the belt is .045 or .048 depending on the belt.

The Shogun boom might be the smallest we can go. I know Rerazer has done this system, however I am not sure what he did. With the data I have I see no way the belt will not rub (.040") with a stock HB pro boom.

I plan to produce a prototype or two to check fit. I will start with a small boom size, this can be opened up to a larger size when we get data.

Must fiddle with everything!
09-06-2005 Over year old.
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gorn
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Australia

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Excellent work RCracer!
Cant wait to see what you come up with
Finally someone is listening to what everyone else is saying.

If you bling it, they will come :D
09-06-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		RCRacer came up with an excellent CAD drawing of what we needed as a Boom Mount Mod. He started another topic before join us here. The other topic was the process of how he got to this boom mount mod as well as what he thinks is suitable as a mod or a kit. He is also testing a new set of struts (stronger than stock) for the 3D Pro. Before you post under the other topic please make sure all posts about the belt drive mod stays here. Thanks.

Here is the link to the other topic
09-06-2005 Over year old.
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cudaboy_71
Elite Veteran
Location: sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		my OD calculations using circumference were not that far off...here's what the digital caliper reads on the V1 shogun boom:

8.82mm/.342" OD

rough measurement of ID...the bearings are pressed and punched in:

7.83mm/.308" ID

if it ain't broke…break it.
09-06-2005 Over year old.
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RCRacer
Heliman
Location: Denver

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Ok, I will make the prototypes to at least handle this size of tubing. I will keep the hole small at first and try the stock HB boom, this can easily be enlarged for the larger sizes.

I have the idler bearing on order, when I get them in I can set the hole position for the bearings.

This is getting fun !

Must fiddle with everything!
09-07-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I used the method Cuda taught us and measured the Shogun V2's boom size. The OD is about 10mm. It runs a 11T pulley and the belt is barely not touching the boom. It doesn't use a idler bearing. If I move the belt against the flange of the pulley then the belt becomes barely touching the boom.

So, here you have it. 8, 10, and 12mm OD. Take your pick. One thing I noticed is both Shogun V2 and T-Rex run 11T tail pulley. Don't know if they tried the 10T and found some problems with it. Just a wild guess.
09-07-2005 Over year old.
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The stock 3D Pro tail boom will work with the belt. The guide bearings can be any kind of bearings. All the Guide bearings do is keep the belt from rubbing when entering the boom. It doesn't hurt anything if the belt touches the boom inside a little.

Don't get me wrong, the Zoom tail boom has been proven to work with the belt with no problems. I helped out Dave at heliworkz.com by making one of the first flying prototype belt drives for the zoom.

I just think you should really try to make as much of the 3D Pro stock parts work as possible. If you make the new frame mount the rest is very easy to do. I had my 3D pro flying great with the "mock-up Oak" mount and stock tailboom.
09-07-2005 Over year old.
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The trex and V2 use a 2 stage gearing to run the belt drive. Thats the reason they are able to run the 11t. SInce we are running a direct system you have to use a large main pulley and the smallest tail pulley (10t is the smallest available).

48t :10t= 4.8 : 1
09-07-2005 Over year old.
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RCRacer
Heliman
Location: Denver

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Ok,
I have the first part prototyped, I missed on the hole locations slightly but not a problem to correct. I am waiting for a few parts to arive so that I can check the belt location, size of the idler and other details.

This is very promising and should not be a problem to produce. I will get a few digital photo's over the weekend. I think a good grade of delrin should work for this part. We might need to play with materials some, I am also working on a removable way of securing the boom into the adapter.

I have left the boom diameter small right now to handle the HB boom, however I think the shogun boom still might be the better way to go. Again very simple changes required, I might produce both sizes.

I shifted the boom back by 1/2" inch, we might need to mess with the belt size some. This should be a good staring point.

Has anyone used fenolic for a boom, I can get this material in a size that is very close for very little.

Must fiddle with everything!
09-08-2005 Over year old.
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Sounds great. Please let me know when you have prototypes available. I have many differant length belts so it should be easy for me to determine the correct length using the 48t main pulley and the 10t tail pulley.

GF,
I'll get the bearing sizes tomorrow for you.
09-08-2005 Over year old.
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cudaboy_71
Elite Veteran
Location: sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		never even heard of fenolic. but, if you think it has a chance of holding up, i'll give it a try.

meanwhile, i've got other issues prohibiting me from prototyping anything on my end for the time being. should be able to sort it out one way (fix it) or the other (throw money at it). starting another topic for my gy401

if it ain't broke…break it.
09-08-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Alright. I have 2 Gy401s that I am not using. 1 used and untested, but the other one was brand new and I put 30 flights on it. Worked great. So you can take the tested one home and fix your 3DP with it (bad part is if you mess it up you would own me $120). Why don't you try to fly with your Cirrus Gyro. It's not HH but will work with your 3DP. Enough said about your problem.

Back to the tail mod. You guys are doing so good of a job so fast. Rerazor, I saw the picture of yours and you did mod the front frame mount a little so the main pulley will fit in. You want to use 3DP boom and I perfer using Shogun stuff all the way. There are many reports here of the tail pitch slider not working right and etc. Since RCRacer will make boom mount in both size, I guess we could both do it the way we like. My thought is the Shogun tail blades are a little bigger so I don't realy need the tail to turn as fast. The Shogun V2 has a main/tail ratio of 4.7:1, so I am beting on using 44T main to run it at 4.4:1 . This way the main pulley is not as big and I don't have to take as much material from the front frame mount. I think it will work since I will push the boom back 1/2" by using RCRacer's mount and also the Shogun boom is longer than 3DPs. There should be good tail authurity with this extra long tail setup.

Can't wait to try it out.
09-08-2005 Over year old.
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I think using the shogun tail boom is a great idea. I just thought most would want to keep overall cost low and use as much of the stock parts as possible. At the time I was playing around with the belt drive I was more frustrated with Centurys crappy design and wanted to show that it would be very easy for them to fix the gear driven tail. I finally gave up on the 3D pro (i.e. giving Century anymore money for overpriced parts) and went with the Trex and the High quality of the Mikado Logo line of Helis.

I was originally on the Pre-order list for the 3D Pro. I jumped on the Hype bandwagon and couldn't wait for this new design CCPM Micro heli only to be very dissapionted and having a feeling of being taken advantage.

Anyways, I will still keep the 4.8 :1 ratio. There won't be that much difference for clearence going from the 48t to the 44t pulley. I don't think I had to modify the front frame mount at all. I just looked and it does not look modified.

There will be a little modification needed with a spacer between the bottom of the top frame and the top of the main pulley I believe.

I also think using the stock tail slider etc.. should work just fine. If you decide to use the complete shogun tail assembly make sure you get the tail case bearings also and be prepared to have to use some type of shrink wrap (like heliworkz uses) to make the tail pulley (10t from SDP) fit on the smaller dia. tail shaft the shogun uses.

The mount is the biggest problem and by the looks of everything here it looks completely solved.
09-08-2005 Over year old.
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		GF,

I see in the pic what your talking about concerning the front frame mount. There is no need to mod the front frame mount for clearence issue.
09-08-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks for the info. Will try both 44T and 48T
09-08-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Got another crazy idea. I think this should be most efficient system.

T-Rex and Shogun use 2 stage reduction gears. The direct main pulley requires a few belt guides and a big pulley. The MMM 400T motor at 1300KV has the perfect RPM for tail. If we use a 5:1 main gear reduction we can drive the tail directly from the motor shaft with a 10T pulley. In order to do that, we need RCRacer's stronger landing gears because the motor will be down under. Here is a hand drawing.

09-09-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Okay, I was wrong on the ratio. Here is the fix. Main gear ratio 4.5:1 or 4:1. Main tail pulley 11T. Tail tail pulley 10T.
09-09-2005 Over year old.
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12 pages [ <<    <     2      3     ( 4 )     5      6     NEXT    >> ]11170 viewsPOST REPLY
Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber

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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > 3D Pro belt-drive mod
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