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Ace Hobby . Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC

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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > 3D Pro belt-drive mod
 
 
cudaboy_71
Elite Veteran
Location: sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		this started in another thread. but, is kind of buried. so, for everyone's benefit here's the belt drive mod rerazor has done.

he sent me his pix and i have rehosted them on my server. they are large pictures, so i'm just linking rather than clogging the thread.

prototype pic 1

prototype pic 2

prototype pic 3

prototype pic 4

final mod

if you have any questions, ask rerazor.

if it ain't broke…break it.
08-27-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Wow, that's a great mod. Only if we can commercialize that tail boom holder piece, we will all have a belt driven tail 3D-Pro for lesser than $20 (like RERAZOR said). Great job RERAZOR! Cooooooooooooool.

Here is my idea. The Shogun V2 has belt drive tail. It uses 2 vertical plates for framing and Hummingbirds use horizontal plates. The HB frame is narrower than the zooms. So there shouldn't be a problem to mount the HB (CP or 3D-Pro's) frame into a Shogun's frame. Once that's done we would have the 120 CCPM from HB with the belt driven tail from Shogun V2.

Hobby people sells a belt drive upgrade kit (not in stock yet) for $65. It include the V2 frame, Gear mounts, Boom mounts, belt, pullies. All we would need is the landing gear and tail parts from Shogun to have enough parts to convert a 3D Pro to belt driven tail.

I saw people here use the Shogun blades on 3D Pro already, so that shouldn't be a problem.
08-27-2005 Over year old.
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		http://www.sdp-si.com

Tail Pulley 10t part number: A 6M16-010DF2503 (Will have to drill out to fit stock tail shaft.)

Main Pulley 48t double flange A 6M16-048DF2508 (modified to mount with one way bearing)

397t belt: A 6Z16-397012 (You will have to play with belt length depending on boom mount design.)

Stock zoom/shogun plastic tail case (used a litle double sided tape to make dia difference)

I think I also used a modified stock zoom/shogun tail pitch lever.

The tricky part is making a tailboom/frame/belt bearing guide mount. I mocked some up out of Oak to get it flying but it would snap in a decent crash and I never finished the project. Made out of Delrin etc.. is what would be needed

Good Luck

08-27-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		One of my goal is to use all commercially available parts and trying to keep drimalling to a minimum. I ordered the Shogun V2 Frame from LHS and it's coming next week. Once it's here I will try to frame the 2 together.

My problem is I am leaving for China by end of September and won't return until end of Oct. I will try to do it as much as possible. I am thinking once I got the frame and tail part done I will just donate the bird to Century for more testing.

Genovia, are you guys interested? I tell you why you guys should be interested. One thing is that 3D Pro factory upgrades are one of the least expensive ones around. If people decided to convert their Shogun to E-CCPM using century parts, you guys will be making $$$$$ since you guys make more $$ on upgrade parts than kits. Secondly I know you guys were working on a extended version of 3D-Pro before, even you already gave up on the idea, this mod will tell you if such an idea is viable.

Also what I need help with is that I am running dry on $$ and lacking the 3D testing skills. I will make sure to furnish all the none Century parts needed for the conversion, then you guys can put the 3D Pro Blings on for testing.

There are already weakness of the V2 (in this post all V2 are shogun V2 not the HB V2) known to the Shogun users. The pulley used in the V2 are plastic and worn easily. The main pulley mashes with the motor pinion so does the main gear. It's hard to make all 3 mash right, specially after changing pinion size on the motor. The good part is they are many many hop-up makers for Shogun, things will become available rapidly. Here is a belt drive tail conversion for the Shogun V1. It uses most aluminum parts and the main pulley goes onto the main shaft. The kit is fairly cheap in China (about $55). I will pickup a few while I am there. If this works, we can even use the Shogun V1 frame for our conversion. The V1 frames are cheaper and exists in many form from aftermarket (cheap copy cat, CF, Alum, and even Titanium).

If Century guys don't care to look at this idea, then I will post everything I got before leaving for China. If anyone out there wants to complete their own mod I wouldn't need to do the rest of the work. Or I will continue it when I return from China.
08-27-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thank you Rezazor. That's a cool site for stock drive products! Hopefully you will have some time to finish your mod soon. We all are eagerly waiting!
08-27-2005 Over year old.
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		You will need to keep the appox. 5:1 gear ratio. I don't know what the V2 runs.

I haven't messed with the 3D pro since May when the pics were taken.

Why Century did not design a belt design originally is beyond me. C'mon Century you can easily make a cheap upgrade belt design wtthout a complete redesign.
08-28-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The only thing I can think of is the weight issue. The belt drive does need a fatter boom and a bigger pulley up front.

I was asking Century guys at their Fremont Funfly if they will make a 3D Pro belt drive tail. They (A guy named Fred) simply replied "No, the shaft drive works fine and we don't think belt drive is needed". Guess we better not wait around for a 3D Pro V2 with belt drive.
08-28-2005 Over year old.
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Stock 3D Pro boom.
08-28-2005 Over year old.
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RMSLINKERS
Senior Heliman
Location: Audubon, Minnesota

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		V2 tail is 4.714 to 1

If it isn't beating the air up it isn't flying
08-29-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Let's keep belt mod posts to this topic

Cuda, I was just looking at the 3D pro and the CP. I figured out a way that not making the costume piece yet mount the pulley and bearings as belt guide. The only thing is you would have to use the same boom as the 3D Pro, which is kind of small to have a belt going back and forth. But Rezazor did it, so I think you can too.

Here is the plan. The 3D Pro upper and lower deck have the same cross-section as the CP frame. And the CP frame has the mask tower mount built-in. Replace the 3D Pros upper-deck with CP frame. Turn the boom mount around sticking out to the tail and mount it to the new upper-deck. Mount the belt guide bearings to this new upper-deck. The conversion is done.

I am busy working on the conversion using Shogun V2 frame and don't believe the skinny 3D-Pro boom will be big enough for the belt. But if you want to try, I can help you all the way. I will even give you a CP's frame to get you started. Let me know if you want to try out. You will have to order the parts frome the drive product company, and order me a set too, if you do.
08-31-2005 Over year old.
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cudaboy_71
Elite Veteran
Location: sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		hrm...you have my old CP now...and i cant visualize how all the pieces would interchange in my head. but, i'll take your word that it is feasable. i'll have to look at the parts. next time we meet up i think we're both gonna have bushel baskets full of parts to look at

as for the boom, rerazor said that he has the stock 3dpro boom on his final incarnation of the mod. he just had so many prototypes going that the pictures i've posted have bigger boom. but, it does work well with the stock one.

he's actually mailing me one/some of his older prototypes later this week so i can take some measurements and start working on my own version without having to completely reinvent it. plus, he's sent me a few more pictures. i'll get them posted here a little later for the benefit of the thread.

i'll keep this thread updated on my progress. but, with a newborn this may be a long project.

if it ain't broke…break it.
08-31-2005 Over year old.
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		In the beginning I didn't think the belt drive would work in the Shogun conversion back in the day. I was very skeptical about the same belt working in the 3D pro boom but it really does work. Changing to a larger boom dia. is very easy to do if needed. I was orignally wanting to keep replacement parts and cost to the bare minimal so a upgrade belt conversion kit under $40 could be made to help the 3D Pro fix a tail that works for some and is JUNK to others.

Since the smallest tail pulley you can use is a 10t you have to use a large front pulley (i.e 48t). The large front pulley makes the need to move the boom mount further back to give enough room to compress the belt into the boom. If you use the stock boom mount with the 48t pulley the belt runs much to tight to work.

I'm starting to get that bad taste in my mouth from Century again. I just feel Century is not very smart when it comes to taking care of a segment of their customer base.

Buss 101: "It cost seven times more money to get a new customer than it does to maintain your current ones".
08-31-2005 Over year old.
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The pics show the same dia. boom as the 3d pro. I found an arrow shaft (orange boom in pic) that was the same dia as the stock boom. I was using it to play with lengths.
08-31-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have Friday off and will work on my conversion. And can stop by your office to show you what I was thinking. If my thinking work, you wouldn't need to fabricate anything, all you need to do is drill holes on the frame. By flipping the rear boom mount around, it pushes the boom back about an inch and creates a lot of room for the guide bearings.

If my special ordered frame doesn't come by Friday morning, I will start on this 3D Pro + CP frame conversion. The problem with this one is that I have no belt drive parts for it (pulley, belt, rear pulley). I can finish the frame part and give it to you. Once you order the belt parts you can install them as I will be in China.

Let me know if you decide to give up on the stock tail drive and start this conversion. Because we only have so many spare parts to go around, once the conversion take place your 3D-Pro has to be grounded until it's done. And if we fail we may have to leave the beloved and never fully flown 3D-Pro. On the flip side, you do and will always have your FP to fly and I have enough parts to keep your FP in the air for a long time.
08-31-2005 Over year old.
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cudaboy_71
Elite Veteran
Location: sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		heh..its grounded anyway since two nights ago. im waiting on the aluminum drive shaft and the gears from you for my next overhaul. if that holds, then i'll stick with the shaft drive for a while. but, if it doesnt hold, im moving right to belt drive mods.

i'll order a couple of sets of the gears and belts this afternoon....i think 2x of everything needed still doesnt break the $10 mark.

if it ain't broke…break it.
08-31-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Order 3 sets then, I will pay for it.
08-31-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I was going to give you the whole tail section including the boom, shaft, GB and gears. The GB is glued to the boom. I rather not have you take it apart until it stops working again.
08-31-2005 Over year old.
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Don't forget the zoom tail case and tail pitch lever.

I will also look at my elite CP (thats in parts and Century got my money on) and see what your thinking. I have an idea but I need to see again to fully understand. The bearing guides are easy to make separate if needed .

I'm sure you guys will get it all figured out.

I thought it would be cool to get a belt drive with the 3D Pro then make it a FP for inside flying A belt drive FP would be bulletproof!!!!
09-01-2005 Over year old.
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garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		What a great Idea. To make it FP, we would need Elite FP head, mask tower, and that should be it.
09-01-2005 Over year old.
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cudaboy_71
Elite Veteran
Location: sacramento, ca, u.s.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		3000 rpm headspeed FP...the cat will love that!!! remember this thing still weighs slightly less than a cinder block.

if it ain't broke…break it.
09-01-2005 Over year old.
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Mikado Modellhubschrauber . Futaba-RC . Boca Bearings

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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > 3D Pro belt-drive mod
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