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HIROBO Turbulence - SDX - Freya - Sceadu > Bad Carbon Extreme Horizontal XSpec fin?
 
 
fasrc
Senior Heliman
Location: Sunny Onatrio, Cali

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I bought the CX fin set for my Freya XSpec and in a couple of flights the horizontal fin developed a crack on the outer left side of the fin. I thought maybe I did something wrong and ordered a 2nd fin. After the first flight, I landed to see the new fin cracking in the same exact spot.

I emailed CX customer service and they said that it probably cracked due to vibration caused by a hard landing or crash.....Well, since I bought the heli it has never been crashed or landed hard. There are no noticeable vibrations until the fin cracks, even if there was vibration, the fin should not crack. To me its a faulty design and I wanted to know if anyone else has had this issue.

On a personal note, I probably will not do business with CX again as I am very unimpressed with the customer support I have gotten so far. For them to say its caused by a bad vibration and not warrant the fin set is bad customer service. I am just glade the thing didn't rip off and fly into my main blades causing a crash.
06-21-2005 05:09 PM
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j911brick
Senior Heliman
Location: Republic of Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Do you have a picture?


james
06-21-2005 05:23 PM
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fasrc
Senior Heliman
Location: Sunny Onatrio, Cali

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		No

I don't have a picture, But i will be taking one soon and posting it here.
06-21-2005 05:25 PM
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Defiant
Key Veteran
Location: Leander , Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
very unimpressed with the customer support I have gotten so far.


That suck's.............you would think that a fin is worth less than customer satisfaction.............especialy since you bought 2 of them!!..

That does'nt make sense on their part.........but I quess some items are just not given a warranty.
In my opinion It would have to be one hell of a vibration to crack a carbon fiber fin!!!

cheese

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06-21-2005 06:03 PM
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bigglesbutler
Veteran
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Not sure about yours, but my heli is smooth as silk till I go to ID1, 1900 RPM. Then the horizontal and vertical fins start flapping, giving me extra airspeed :P. And yes I am sorting that out :P.

My question is this, have you looked at the fins when in ID1 etc, to make sure there isnt any vibs? If you are only seeing it in normal and it is smooth as silk then they may well be right about vibs being the cause. Although as cheese said it does take a hell of a vibration to crack CF.

From my experience the CF stuff from CX is of an impeccabale quality, my AVANT side frames are lovely. Almost the same standard as my £3000 Eagle3.

Si
06-21-2005 07:32 PM
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fasrc
Senior Heliman
Location: Sunny Onatrio, Cali

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I Fly most of the time in ID1

So, no vibes there.......but when the fin starts cracking, I can see a vib on the fin in the section wear it is breaking.....As Cheese said...it has to be hell of a vibration for it to break and its not. I've seen some Freya's shake and mine is pretty smooth compared to them...there probably is some vibration that is not noticable in flight, but it should not crack carbon fiber.

I got another email from CX wanting a picture of the fin and they want me to send them back for inspection.....I will do that tonight and I will post on here what they have to say about the fins.
06-21-2005 08:02 PM
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Augusto
Elite Veteran
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		fasrc,

I spoke to the person that e-mailed you and he sent me a copy of the e-mail.

He was trying to help you diagnose the problem. He didn't say that it "it probably cracked due to vibration caused by a hard landing or crash" he was trying to help you diagnose the problem so what he said was and I quote:

"Your problem could be due to a strong vibration typical of the Freya/X-Spec kits when the center mainhub is slightly bent due to a crash or a hard landing. In those cases the boom shakes up and down in a strong vibration that's dificult to notice but it will wear several parts like the boom supports as well."

He didn't say we were not going to replace a defective part or anything like that. As a matter of fact after you replied today they e-mailed you asking you to send the fins back for inspection.

I think you jumped the gun before letting them help you.

This is the first time I hear about a fin cracking in flight.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
06-21-2005 08:02 PM
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Dr Lodge
Elite Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey - UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have to concur with the opinion that a cracked tail fin is likely due to excessive vibration. I've seen fins crack in this way esp when they're the "3D" variety with lots cut out of them.

I would look closely at the run out of your clutch and shaft before looking to replace it - I'd bet money that you'll have yet more cracked fins irrespective of who made them

Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200
06-21-2005 09:28 PM
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fasrc
Senior Heliman
Location: Sunny Onatrio, Cali

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Well

I'll take some pictures and send back the 2 broken pieces for you guys to look at.....I wouldn't have bought 2 if I thought this would happen again. I really think that section is a weak point. Maybe there is a vibration in my heli that is cauing this but if this was not a weak point the same spot would have not broken in the same exact spot again....they are both not clean breaks...more of a fracture. I tried epoxying the first one before I ordered a second one...but that did not seem to help.

I have CX dampners in my Freya and Evo and the CX fin set on the Xspec. I don't complain unless I have a reason to....If the guy that sent the email would have asked for a picture or asked to send the fins back for inspection in the first place, I would have not jumped the gun, but if all he says is that the cause of it maybe vibration, it kind of make one think its the end of the story.
06-21-2005 09:33 PM
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Dr Lodge
Elite Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey - UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The fins will crack in the same spot and where its weakest. More true to say they'll crack at the weakest spot rather than at the weak spot. I had the exact same problem on my TSK Acrostar when I fitted 3D carbon fins, it never happened with solid fins.

Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200
06-21-2005 09:36 PM
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Defiant
Key Veteran
Location: Leander , Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
when I fitted 3D carbon fins, it never happened with solid fins.



After reading that I seem to remember that the stock fin for the X-Spec is HUGE!!...for those of you that have one..know what I mean!!....and that it would resonate badly at times...
After I cut it down to my own pattern it does'nt vibrate at all!!...



Maybe the CX fin...being even thinner than the stock X-Spec fin is just too week.....being to thin for its size...??....not a problem with the heli.......just a thought.


cheese


*
06-21-2005 10:02 PM
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Augusto
Elite Veteran
Location: US

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		big cheese,

Both the cx and the hirobo fins are 2mm carbon.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
06-21-2005 10:11 PM
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Dr Lodge
Elite Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey - UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I think the carbon fins on my Freya are NHP's and they didn't strike me as being very thick - probaby 2mm carbon too - and I wondered if they would stand the test of time. I dial indicated my clutch and shaft carefully and I don't have much vibration and they're still in one piece (touch wood).

Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200
06-21-2005 10:17 PM
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Zach Sparks
Veteran
Location: Norton Shores, MI

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		My CX fins on my X SPEC also cracked this weekend after almost a year and a half on my machine and many many gallons of fuel.

Of course the crack was really more a snap when I CRASHED the heli into the ground. DARN IT ALL!!

Great products Augusto. I will be buying more.
06-22-2005 01:08 AM
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Jeff H
Key Veteran
Location: Cincinnati, OH

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
I bought the CX fin set for my Freya XSpec and in a couple of flights the horizontal fin developed a crack



Why are you running a horisontal fin for 3-D anyway? Its not like its actually doing anything.


06-22-2005 01:20 AM
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Defiant
Key Veteran
Location: Leander , Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
Both the cx and the hirobo fins are 2mm carbon.



Augusto,
I wasn't speaking of the thickness of the fin, but to the way the fin is cut....the design itself, Leaving the sections to thin and flexible. But that may not be a factor at all....just a thought.
I still feel it would take way to much vibration to crack the fin.....
If it was caused by vibration, then there is something"not right" in the heli...
I've seen fin's vibrate badly on other heli's...and in each situation, there was something tweeked!!..but no fin's cracked..

cheese

*
06-22-2005 04:56 AM
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fasrc
Senior Heliman
Location: Sunny Onatrio, Cali

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Big Cheese is correct.

I think it is also cut too thin in the section where it cracks.

The vibration that is there after it cracks is very light....it should not be enough to crack carbon fiber biut it does. Anways, I have taken pictures and I will be sending the pics as well as the fins back to CX today. I can't post pics until Monday here, so that part is going to have to wait.



Jeff you are correct, for 3D I don't need the fin, but too me its more for looks as it looks bare without the fin.
06-22-2005 04:04 PM
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Dr Lodge
Elite Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey - UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Photos

these are from fasrc...and I didn't read the original post properly and was talking about the vert fin in my above posts!

Whoops!







Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200
06-22-2005 04:35 PM
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fasrc
Senior Heliman
Location: Sunny Onatrio, Cali

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks DR.Lodge

For posting the pics up for me.
06-22-2005 04:45 PM
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j911brick
Senior Heliman
Location: Republic of Texas

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Its odd that they would both crack in that same place. I wonder what would happen if you turned the fin upside down?

james
06-23-2005 05:18 AM
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HIROBO Turbulence - SDX - Freya - Sceadu > Bad Carbon Extreme Horizontal XSpec fin?
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