RR Rated M For Mature
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 870 ONLINE 18 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ]31482 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
RCHover . HeliDirect . ReadyHeli

.
.
e-E-Flite Blade MSR CP CX MCX 400-3D > Horizon Hobby Blade CP Sticking Collective Problem Resolved For Free!! :)
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		A number of Blade CP pilots have reported a sticking collective problem that manifests itself in the following manner.........Getting ready for take off, advancing the throttle, but no response from the heli other than an ever increasing head speed, and then suddenly with no warning the heli rips off toward the treetops like a sidewinder missile. Scary to say the least and disastrous if you are flying indoors.

A number of posts have suggested that the problem was in the head slider binding and needing sanding and/or lubrication. This did no good for me, so I tore the little heli's head down and believe that I have isolated the problem.
The main blade grips have two ball bearings each. These bearings must have their outer races touching only the inside surface of the blade grip bearing cavity to be effective. It seems that the assembly point has been loading the parts intended to contact only the inner race of the ball bearings in the wrong order.
Once you have the blade grips removed from the spindle shaft, you will see that an aluminum spacer is installed next to the bearing and is making contact with the outer race of the outside grip bearing. This prevents free rotation of the grip on this bearing and I believe is causing the "sticking collective anomaly". As received there is an M2 washer mounted directly under the M2 retaining bolt. This is smaller in O.D., than the spacer and needs to be in position next to the bearing. It only makes contact with the inner bearing race and everything operates freely when installed in this fashion.

All that needs to be done is to swap the location of the aluminum spacer and the M2 washer outside the grip on the M2 securing bolt. I have several flights on all three of my Blades and have not experienced the "sticking collective" issue on any of them since reordering the parts.

If you understand what is going on here then as the rpm increases and the centrifugal force exerted by the rotor blades pulls the parts discussed here even tighter together, the binding holds the blades at the beginning pitch until enough servo power overcomes the problem and suddenly slams the head into maximum positve pitch and off you go.

If my words are not clear, I have enclosed some pics to aid understanding. This information has been sent to Horizon Hobby.











Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
Major USAF
Retired
06-15-2005 03:59 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
SkidBreaker
Heliman
Location: Asheville, NC

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		WOW...haven't tried it yet but will in a few minutes....thanks in advance Sir! I've sanded / lubed / sanded some more / lubed etc the head which is slick as a whistle now but have still had the problem. It's cost me at least 3 sets of blades and a canopy. I'd sure like some response from Jason at Horizon as to whether or not they might acknowledge the issue and reimburse / replace the parts this has cost me, and many others I'm sure.

I'll try the fix and post again this afternoon.
06-15-2005 05:23 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
SkidBreaker
Heliman
Location: Asheville, NC

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Just tried it....perfect fix for the problem! If you have a Blade do this before you fly again!! Thanks so much for the help Boyd!!!
06-15-2005 05:52 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Good news!!

Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
Major USAF
Retired
06-15-2005 06:07 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
midwestpilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Crystal Lake, IL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		great tip...

I love it when great info gets posted on here....

In life there is no spacebar!

Rich Erikson AMA 6175
06-15-2005 07:01 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		yup!

This would explain why the paddles are tight and don't "bounce" like my GWS when I tap them. My BCP did not exibit this issue, but another one I flew did. Good thing I had read the threads here and was expecting it. I was 'bumping' the throttle up, and suddenly I had a BCP in my face. I was able to 'catch it' and land it, but scarry!

Horizon Hobbies should help out here, I hope.

.. P-gas, T700, V50c/u, R50T, T4/250 and a Cricket ..
06-15-2005 09:32 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
BunnMan
Heliman
Location: Pasadena, Maryland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		interesting work my friend

I just tried your idea and boy what a noticeable difference even at my low level of performance. I am just learning to fly helis and the Blade was my choice of trainer. My usual drill is hovering in the living room due to the amount of trouble I have trying to fly outdoors with that evil wind! After performing your steps I noticed an immediate difference in the amount of throttle/collective it took to lift off the carpet. Before I was up at almost full throw with the trim at the bottom to lift off. Now it feels like I am at maybe half before in lifts up and the head speed is much slower. I had to tweak my proportional a bit to work with the free-ed up collective but I like it much more now. Also no abrupt tail twitches like I used to get every now and then. All blade owners should take a look at their heli, I bet they all have the setup you show in the third photo there. I checked my manual and on the assembly drawing on page 25 it clearly shows the grips put together the "bad" way.

Thanks and God bless,

-BunnMan
06-15-2005 10:46 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
allns47
Key Veteran
Location: Richmond IN.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I guess horizon missed this problem....
06-15-2005 11:41 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
altnaut50
Heliman
Location: Pensacola, Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks, that corrected the problem. This chopper flys now Maybe you can find an answer to the tail motors burning out. DD may be the answer. Bill
06-16-2005 02:47 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
SkidBreaker
Heliman
Location: Asheville, NC

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Don't want to hijak this thread so maybe a new one is in order......concerning conversion to DD for this little bird? I'm just a noob that can't stand "not" tweaking / modifying / improving. Anyone have any links to more info or have experience doing this??
06-16-2005 03:23 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
mikemisty
Heliman
Location: Whitsett N.C Gilford Co

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks for the info Boyd ...Great post im sure you just saved alot of Rotor blades and Blade CP's ... Just wanted to say thanks looks like you put alot of work in this post . I changed mine also after reading your post made a big diffrence .
06-16-2005 05:08 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks for sharing this!

Be aware that if you dissassemble the spindle, the two washers that go next to the o-ring damener have a shoulder on them. The shoulder goes towards the blade holder bearing and away from the o-Ring dampener. It's shown as part 015 on the exploded diagam in the manual.

---
Rich
06-17-2005 10:40 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
BunnMan
Heliman
Location: Pasadena, Maryland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		it aint a perfect world

I wonder how much a Schluter in this class would cost?

I feel your pain but then I wouldn't go and get so upset over it. All things considered this is a wonderful machine for the investment. Being a brand new product offered at such an affordable buy in it's hard to expect perfection. Thankfully their support is phonemenal which is sadly VERY hard to come by anymore. Besides, it really isn't a QC issue as much as it's an engineering issue. The included assembly drawing actually shows the grips put together the WRONG way. True, a more effective QC program would have caught it before it hit the market, but this one is not the fault of the laborers/assemblers making a goof when putting togther the last few models before close of business friday. This one comes straight out of the front office and effects them ALL. I'm sure you'll see a change in future models as soon as this issue hits 'em back home. I just shared it with the LHS folks and they were very happy to have the fix. Thank God there's folks around sharp enough to pick up on stuff like this and share it with the rest of us. Thanks again Boyd!

I am new to Helis and this forum as I've mentioned before. I have really enjoyed reviewing the info here and am appreciative of all the folks who contirbute. Being involved in a few hobbies/obsessions I visit a variey of forums and newsgroups on the web and the folks that participate here seem to be a real high caliber bunch. No nonsense, stupid spew responses and no angry, frustrated flames...except for one user. I know everybody has their share of problems and I'll be praying for you and yours.

God bless,

-BunnMan
06-18-2005 01:48 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
skyboy-8
Heliman
Location: Marietta, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		BTW, I have the newest version of Esky Honey bee CP. Great heli, however, the sticking collective is there also!
06-19-2005 12:40 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
BunnMan
Heliman
Location: Pasadena, Maryland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Honey Bee2

I have seen pictures of the Honey Bee2 and believe it is essentially the same heli. I have also read that alot of the parts are interchangeable, They aren't identical however do seem very close. I did notice the rotor head is slightly different but how different I don't know. It would be cool to see the two lined up next to each other. The fix for the collective is probably the same.

God bless,

-BunnMan
06-19-2005 02:35 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
skyboy-8
Heliman
Location: Marietta, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The Blade is the same as the previous version of the Esky HB. If you compare those parts with Blades, you'll find that they are the same...

I will certainly look to do this fix on my HB, thanks!
06-19-2005 04:00 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
SkidBreaker
Heliman
Location: Asheville, NC

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
This Asian crap really has me disgusted, it's really OBVIOUS to me without even reading the text that's a really asanine QC issue.


Man, I really tried to bite my tongue on this one. I'm not Asian, but I find your comment offensive. "This Asian crap..." as if anything made in Asia is inferior, and since it's made by Asians then they must all be inferior as well. Believe me when I say I spend my dollars locally on US made goods whenever possible, but in fact, we are living in a World economy. I can't imagine a company with better customer support, which I've utilized multiple times, than Horizon. I guarantee you they'll fix this before any more are shipped to dealers. I was on the phone with their service department within an hour of this being originally posted. How many people do you think might be introduced to R/C helis by a $220 RTF package that sets a new level for RTF micros? A lot, as is already evident in the major forums. Would they jump in if the package was $520.....I think not.

With all "due" respect, you might think about your comments, especially racial slurs, before posting them. And it's "asinine", not asanine.

Now, let's have a beer and talk about crashin' helis!
06-19-2005 04:28 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		two of my fixes

as I posted on another site:
"
I have some more info to add to the sticky collective issue. My BCP was an early production run which did not include any washers outside of the blade holder bearing. I went to the LHS and picked up a pack of Dubro 2mm washers (part# 2107). They are PERFECT for this application. The head is so smooth it's truly amazing.
Also, I found that the plastic ball/socket joints in the head were too tight. I added some dry graphite lube, but that didn't help much. A Piccolo pilot gave me a hint about using a pair of needle nose pliers to squeeze the ball/socket to loosen them up. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The whole head is so smooth, the flybar paddles now bounce when I tap them!

Summary:
1. Dubro 2107 2mm washer for the blade holder
2. "Massage" the head's ball joints with a pair of pliers to loosen them up

I've been flying with the acro kits main motor, heat sinks installed and a TP 3120 Lipo cell. Great combo, but be aware, I didn't experience the sticking head problem until I went to the lipo battery. The higher head speed will show issues that the 9.6V pack didn't!
"

.. P-gas, T700, V50c/u, R50T, T4/250 and a Cricket ..
06-19-2005 04:53 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
SkidBreaker
Heliman
Location: Asheville, NC

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Roger that NY

...or when our lower income mother's can't find a job to feed their kids or pay for health care because the low paying jobs have all been taken by illegal immigrants, who are also using the public health care system. We just have to remember that when we point a finger at someone else three more are pointed back at us. Is it their fault or is it ours for not doing more to stop it?

Ok ok....enough politics. Let's have some coffee and get ready to go fly!
06-19-2005 12:38 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
deafheliflyer
Key Veteran
Location: Arizona

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi

If anyone does this conversion.. Keep in mind you may have to put two or three small washers after putting in the O-Ring... For some reason after taking the O ring out and putting it back in, there is A LOT of free-play ... So, put washers in so that the head will be tight not wobbly.


just my $.02
06-19-2005 09:36 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
deafheliflyer
Key Veteran
Location: Arizona

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I've been flying with the acro kits main motor, heat sinks installed and a TP 3120 Lipo cell. Great combo





I think you meant 1320 lipo not 3120!!!!!!

LOL
06-19-2005 09:38 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
deafheliflyer
Key Veteran
Location: Arizona

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		by the way

By the way,, this method took away my sticky collective situation so it works!!!!

Michael
06-19-2005 09:38 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
TP 3120 Lipo cell. Great combo


Don't you mean 1320!?!?!? 3120 would be HUGE!


I have the TP 1320 and it will fly the heli for a long time! But it seems a bit heavy for aerobatics. I can't do a decent loop or roll with it. It sort of flops over.

---
Rich
06-20-2005 09:23 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
aileron bail
Senior Heliman
Location: The guy with the dog named Aileron

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Heli_eBrook how much do you need i sure we can raise some money for you to leave we dont anymore anti american people in the USA theres enough of those over seas...... see ya If your not going to stand behind our troops ...Please stand in front of them
06-20-2005 11:30 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
marked23
Key Veteran
Location: Lynnwood, WA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I just saw one of these Blade CP helis at the field. It looked pretty good for a micro.

Anyway, this bit with the bearing, then small washer, then big washer: This is a common build mistake on the Hawk Sport. When I saw the pictures, I recognised that Boyd is right. This exact same problem happens with the Hawk Sport... and the fix is exactly as Boyd describes it.

The new Hawk Pro uses thrust bearings in the blade grips now... so it can't happen with the newer Hawks.

Just thought you'd like to know that we've seen this problem before on a nitro heli.

-Mark
06-20-2005 11:57 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
skyboy-8
Heliman
Location: Marietta, GA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I just looked at the Hone Bee 2 CP, new version, exploded view and it shows the blade holder assembled incorrectly, i.e. screw, small washer, large washer, bearing. I confirmed that my swash plate slid easily, in the process I observed that one of the ball links was snapped in place not tangent to the swash plate. This can lead to binding. I will next reverse the washers as recommended earlier. Hope you don't mind my HB 2 info here, as I beleive that they share the same heritage.
06-21-2005 12:54 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
jeffjets
Heliman
Location: Albany, NY

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		if anyone can answer a few questions on doing this fix pls shoot me an AIM at jeffjets00, rather talk to someone on there instead of doing multiple posts on here thanks. Mostly wondering how much of the helicopter I need to take apart to get to these washers.
06-21-2005 05:56 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
midwestpilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Crystal Lake, IL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		sorry...I am going to answer you here...

cause then all get the answer not just you.....ya see that is the beauty of forums.

you only need to remove the blades...
then the screw in the blade holder that go into the spindle.

the only difficulty you may have is after you loosen one side the other wont loosen...so you have to push the spindle out through the other blade holder. The problem is there is no way to hold the spindle from spinning while still in the heli. This is something the experienced pilots are quite familliar with..but this heli seems to be attracting a lot of new pilots....you will learn a lot before you are through with this hobby...that is what makes it fun!

In life there is no spacebar!

Rich Erikson AMA 6175
06-21-2005 02:23 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
jeffjets
Heliman
Location: Albany, NY

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		thanks =) I just didn't want to crowd the thread with newbie type questions but you gave me exactly what I wanted to know =)
06-21-2005 04:06 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
jeffjets
Heliman
Location: Albany, NY

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I am having a terrible time getting the screws apart now, they go counterclockwise like all the others to come apart correct? Figured it was better to stop and ask than maybee tighten them down even more =P

edit: before anyone asks yes I am using 2 allen wrenches, one on each side
06-21-2005 05:48 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
midwestpilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Crystal Lake, IL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		yes they are standard

I have a real nice set of handled allen wrenches so I did not notice if it was hard to break loose...but it is indeed a standard screw

Righty tighty
Lefty loosey


In life there is no spacebar!

Rich Erikson AMA 6175
06-21-2005 06:38 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
altnaut50
Heliman
Location: Pensacola, Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Just wanted to say thanks to Horizon I sent my blade in for the collective sticking problem( before I saw the thread on the mod by hoverup). anyway I got it back within a week and it flies better than ever no sticking collective. They replaced the blade grips not sure about the washers I'll find out though. It flys so good I don't want to touch it yet. I thought it would take longer to get back so I bought another Bladecp which flys great. Now I have 2 hele's that I can't see good. "just kidding" Anyway just wanted to let you know that Horizon stands behind their product. I'm a happy customer. Bill
06-21-2005 07:31 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
BunnMan
Heliman
Location: Pasadena, Maryland

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		My grip bolts weren't terrible to break loose. I held both the allens with the short leg in my hand and the long leg in the bolt and broke them loose.

God bless,

-BunnMan
06-21-2005 08:35 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		typo!

yep - TP 1320 - I don't think the BCP would like a 3 amp pack, even TP!

I tried a loop with it today with the stock battery pack, just kind of flopped out, but this is the first few days of my FFF, so it's probably a lack of skill.

Been flying smooth since adding the washer.x

.. P-gas, T700, V50c/u, R50T, T4/250 and a Cricket ..
06-22-2005 05:14 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
tried a loop with it today with the stock battery pack, just kind of flopped out, but this is the first few days of my FFF, so it's probably a lack of skill.


Be careful and try loops/rolls at a very high altitude! I lost my blade in a loop when it flopped in the middle of my third loop. It seems like the tail rotor lost authority and it torqued around. It did this each time but on the third loop I wasn't able to recover in time! So I'm waiting for parts now.

I did these loops with the aerobatic kit, symmetrical blades and the flybar weights all the way in toward the mast and using 1370mAh 3S LiPo. Should be all the 'right stuff', except perhaps the 1370 battery is a bit heavy. I recently purchased a 900 mAh 3S LiPo and will try that when my parts come in.

---
Rich
06-23-2005 12:41 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
aileron bail
Senior Heliman
Location: The guy with the dog named Aileron

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The stock battery is 103 grams and the Thunder power 1320 lipo is 90 grams
06-23-2005 01:17 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
lakespinner2
Veteran
Location: north carolina

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I've got a tp 1320 lipo for the 'enhanced' Blade as well. It will do the flips and rolls with it onboard. As ImRich said, do them high ! Mine seems to roll over on it's back a little better than it will roll upright, if you're up high it's easy to just fly it out and get it back to upright.

I also have an 1100 mAh offbrand and a tp 900 mAh that I ordered just for it and while I haven't had the nerve to invert, flip or roll the little bird myself, my buddy who's flying it in the video seems to fly them all equally well. He's never commented about the battery weight difference between the different batteries. The enhancement kit seemed to do the trick. It flat wouldn't flip before the kit, even with symmetrical blades. It would hover inverted just fine if launched upside down but landings were a little tough.

To me, it seems a handful with any of the batteries. The movie I posted earlier had the 1320 on the blade in the first part, and the red battery at the end is the 1100 mAh.

I'm having to learn to fly a non-HH heli. I'm more nervous flying this little thing than my raptor or t-rex. I have finally gotten somewhat comfortable with it simply nose in AND keeping the tail under control but if it did one of those uncommanded piros (UCP) when it was upside down or in a roll it would be all over. Even my buddy who's infinitely better at flying any heli than me has some pretty interesting moments (very funny too I might add) when the UCPs show up. I think all the UCPs have happened during upright flight, so far. When he's flying the blade i'd guess he's averaging just under 1 UCP per flight. It doesn't do it every flight but it's almost every flight. It definitely makes it more exciting to watch.

I'm rebuildling the little bird today. Last week while inverted either the glued on (and previously broken) landing gear or just as likely the battery wiggled off and fell thru the blades while it was inverted and high. It tossed the battery in mid-air and while it didn't do much damage it did crack the main frame where the 4 in 1 connects to the rest of the frame. This will be my first go at replacing the main frame.

Make sure the battery and all the parts and pieces are very secure if you're going to flip it.

I still can't get over going to the LHS and buying $3 and $5 parts for a heli. I'm starting to like it even better.
06-23-2005 03:01 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
either the glued on (and previously broken) landing gear or just as likely the battery wiggled off and fell thru the blades while it was inverted and high.


I wouldn't recommend people try to glue parts together which you break due to a crash on this litle heli.

I tried to glue one joint which looked like it was holding very nicely, but it would't stand up to the little flexing which happens in flight and broke again.

If you try to glue something and it doesn't hold up, you'll probably crash again and end up breaking more parts than just the original one creating even more damage than you started with.

For the cost of replacement parts, don't chance it, just get new parts.

---
Rich
06-23-2005 06:33 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
jeffjets
Heliman
Location: Albany, NY

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I got it all fixed now and did my first full pack. Managed to get some stready hovering in about 1-2 foot off the ground =) The fix sure did make a difference, now the helicopter actually smoothly takes off and lands. Now to get hovering down more controlled =) I am doing ok with taking off and landing for my first heli but have lost it in a hover a few times. Sure is alot of fun though
06-23-2005 06:44 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Sam Mc D
Heliman
Location: Lexington,KY--U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I belive Boyd is headed in the right direction. But, I have read many posts where this didn't help. I have what might be a solution if it makes any sence.
Let me start by saying this is my first heli.
After getting the grips loose I noticed on my bird: (from ouside in) screw, spacer,bearing, bladegrip,bearing flanged washer o-ring.
Would it not make sence to get 2 flanged washers for this?by getting this part?EFLH1162 (this would give you 4 total)
Since I have read that some are not having luck with this fix, and after about an hour of looking(and pulling).
Would it make sence to use the flanged washers on both the inside and outside?
It would seem to me that this will allow the bearing to spin free as a bird,as the head speed rises.
Make any sence?
I have some Photos on my regular site, of what I am thinking of.
http://www.coyotehobbies.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=756
I hope you can see. Like I said I am very new, but after seeing this, I had to ask.
I hope this is not out of line here.
tell me what ya think of it.
Hopefully I will be getting pat1162 tommorrow to try it out.
Sam Mc D
07-01-2005 09:58 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		A student of mine asked me to help him get his blade setup after he had trouble getting the tail adjustment working.

While I was at it, I decided to check his blade washers to see if they were sticking.

I found a few different things with his blade heli as compared to mine:

1) His screws which old the main blades on do not have nuts on the bottom. They screw directly into plastic. Mine came with 2mm nuts on the bottom of the blade mounting screws. I don't think this is an issue with this little heli, but I found it interesting that there was a difference. I don't see the nuts on the parts list. So why did mine come with nuts? Does anyone else have nuts on the blade mounting screws? Perhaps my blade is a male heli and my student's blade is a female version?

2) His head assembly was missing the small washer/spacer which goes between the O-Ring dampeners and the blade holder. This is the one with the little shoulder which should be towards the blade bearing. If someone else is missing this washer/spacer, then it could also cause a problem. I didn't have a small enough washer in my parts bin to replace it, so I just re-assembled the head as it was from the factory. I flew his heli and it seemed ok, but I told him to call Horizon and ask for them to send him the missing parts.

---
Rich
07-01-2005 12:39 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
I belive Boyd is headed in the right direction. But, I have read many posts where this didn't help. I have what might be a solution if it makes any sence.
Let me start by saying this is my first heli.
After getting the grips loose I noticed on my bird: (from ouside in) screw, spacer,bearing, bladegrip,bearing flanged washer o-ring.
Would it not make sence to get 2 flanged washers for this?by getting this part?EFLH1162 (this would give you 4 total)
Since I have read that some are not having luck with this fix, and after about an hour of looking(and pulling).
Would it make sence to use the flanged washers on both the inside and outside?
It would seem to me that this will allow the bearing to spin free as a bird,as the head speed rises.
Make any sence?
I have some Photos on my regular site, of what I am thinking of.
http://www.coyotehobbies.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=756
I hope you can see. Like I said I am very new, but after seeing this, I had to ask.
I hope this is not out of line here.
tell me what ya think of it.
Hopefully I will be getting pat1162 tommorrow to try it out.
Sam Mc D


Your assumptions about using two more stepped washers is correct. Unfortunately there are no stepped washers included in EFLH1162.

Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
Major USAF
Retired
07-01-2005 04:31 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Sam Mc D
Heliman
Location: Lexington,KY--U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		On horizons site,part 1162 shows these washers in this blade grip set.
Unless there are 2 flat washers that come with the replacement.
See:http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/By...ProdID=EFLH1162
I will look furthur I need 2 more washers.
Sam
07-01-2005 05:00 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Sam Mc D
Heliman
Location: Lexington,KY--U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I just called a shop and asked them about if these washers were in the package. The guy looked and verified that they were indeed in there. I will be going in about an hour to get them. will let ya know.
Sam
07-01-2005 05:33 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have two sets of the replacement grips and there are no stepped washers included. Good Luck.

Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
Major USAF
Retired
07-01-2005 06:19 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Sam Mc D
Heliman
Location: Lexington,KY--U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I just got back from the shop and purchased eflh 1162 and the stepped or flanged washers are in there, along with 2 flat washers and 2 spacers.$8.00 for this part.
07-02-2005 12:06 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Chuck McHugh
Heliman
Location: Orlando, Fl

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		imrich, I just got a replacement set of blade grips and they did not have the nuts or depresion in the bottom of the grip.
Chuck
As for why I need new grips.....NEVER hover over a sleeping cat!!!!
07-02-2005 03:46 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
tienman04
Senior Heliman
Location: Silver sping. MD

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		i also just got a set of blade grips and did not have the nuts. THis is actually a better design since it eliminate the need of one. THe hex bolt just go directly down and stays there.
07-02-2005 03:49 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
TooLy
Veteran
Location: Israel

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Does the E-sky Cp2 2 also has this problem?

~Roei~
07-02-2005 09:57 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yes. It is the same heli as the Blade.

Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
Major USAF
Retired
07-02-2005 04:22 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
I just got back from the shop and purchased eflh 1162 and the stepped or flanged washers are in there, along with 2 flat washers and 2 spacers.$8.00 for this part.


$8.00+ seems extravagant to fix a problem that can be fixed for free. If you are concerned that swapping the spacer and M2 washer at the outer ends of the spindle shaft doesn't get you to a free moving collective (and it did on all 4 of the Blades I have), there is another way to save the $8.00. Simply take the two M2 washers, slide them on an M2 screw/bolt add two M2 nuts and tighten so that the washers cannot rotate. Chuck the bolt into your Dremel or drill and grind the OD down on the washers using a file applied to the spinning washers in the Dremel. Now you will have two small OD washers with a 2mm hole in the middle that will interface perfectly with the inner race of each of the outer grip ball bearings. Buy a couple beers with the $8.00 and pocket the change.



Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
Major USAF
Retired
07-02-2005 04:32 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
ksninew
Heliman
Location: Woodstock, IL

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I just took my blade grips off to make the change of the M2 washer and the spacer and I found that there are no M2 washers? Just the screw than the spacer and the bearing. Is the M2 washer between the spacer and bearing a must have?
07-02-2005 07:49 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yes.

Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
Major USAF
Retired
07-02-2005 08:47 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Sam Mc D
Heliman
Location: Lexington,KY--U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Bah, Since I don't have all the wonderful tools yet I bought the grips, so now I have 4 flanged washers for the bearings.
Also I didn't have m2 washers on mine either, just the spacer.
I have a spare set now
Thanks for your time and wisdome on this. Without it I would have never looked into it.
Thanks,
Sam Mc D
07-03-2005 07:18 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE  
 
 
PJSims
Heliman
Location: Roanoke, VA, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		After taking the blades off, only one of the screws came loose from the spindle. That figures...so much for it being easy

So, being a newbie, what steps do I need to take to get the other side to break loose? What holds the blade grip to the spindle? If I remove the screw that broke loose, should the blade grip just pull off?

Thanks for all help.
07-03-2005 05:15 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
aileron bail
Senior Heliman
Location: The guy with the dog named Aileron

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The side that you took screw out...Pull grip off and push spindle thru and flip the washers and put back together and fly. You dont have to break both screws loose on the grips to do this. Have fun
07-03-2005 06:05 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
PJSims
Heliman
Location: Roanoke, VA, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I tried pulling the grip off with no success. I thought maybe there was something else holding it on.

I'll give it a shot...thanks for your help.

Retired USAF Loadmaster from the good 'ol MAC days
07-03-2005 06:09 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
ddavison
Veteran
Location: Brownsville, Pennsylvania

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		We did one at the field today. used two allen drivers, broke one side loose put a 1.3 driver in hole in the spindle, tapped on it and pushed the axle through about 3/16 enough to grip it with a small pair on vice grips between the opposite grip and center block ,loosened the other side and reversed the washers. Checked mine and it was assembled correctly, they probably fired that assembler because it was not assembled according to the plans.

DaveDavison, Miniature Aircraft Field Rep. Spectra,Stratus,Furion, JR 12x 2,4
07-04-2005 03:28 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Stormovic
Heliman
Location: Morris Alabama

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The grip will come off. Use a small common screwdriver to slowly wedge it off the spindle.
07-04-2005 12:10 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
imrich, I just got a replacement set of blade grips and they did not have the nuts or depresion in the bottom of the grip.


It seems that the 'newer' batch of Blades are coming through without the nuts. This is a better design, it's lighter and you don't chance dropping the nuts and having a hard time finding them as I have a few times!

---
Rich
07-04-2005 01:20 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
PJSims
Heliman
Location: Roanoke, VA, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Success!

I managed to get the grip off. Once I found all the spacers and washer that went fying when the grip came off, I got everything back together correctly.

Took the heli out into the courtyard to try it out, and sure enough, the jumping has decreased greatly. The few times that it did jump were pretty minor, so that's got me wondering if I just might be getting zapped by something in the neighborhood.

Thanks for everyones help.

Retired USAF Loadmaster from the good 'ol MAC days
07-04-2005 01:58 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
aileron bail
Senior Heliman
Location: The guy with the dog named Aileron

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Take your cystal out and clean and put it back in and put tape on it
07-04-2005 02:59 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
PJSims
Heliman
Location: Roanoke, VA, USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Even though I've only had the Blade for a week, I'll pull and clean the crystal. Anything that might help...

Retired USAF Loadmaster from the good 'ol MAC days
07-04-2005 05:35 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
thrilsekr
Heliman
Location: Central Coast, CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		If other fixes do not work check this out...

Part EFLH1145

The center hub may not fit the rotor head properly. This happened to me. I had to replace the spindle and main shaft. When I put it all back together the blades would not pitch. After hours of time and gallons of lube on the spindle and swashplate/shaft. I figured out (after taking apart and reassembling the swashplate and blade grips and spindle several times) the new center hub did not fit the old rotor head. So I had to use the old center hub and it worked fine. Maybe the tolerances are not precise enough for these parts because even after I took the dremel to the new center hub I could not get it to work properly. But if these two pieces do not fit exactly together it will cause binding and prevent blade pitch until the tiny servo motors can push with the centrifugal force of the blades etc.
And these two parts are sold in different kits - so good luck.
If your BCP is new, maybe it got shipped this way (in factory test fly?).
07-06-2005 03:42 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		No telling how long it's been there, but Horizon Hobby now has Technical Bulletins up for the Blade CP including the "sticky collective" design problem. I am surprised they haven't posted on the forums alerting all to this resource. It's a step in the right direction, but a few pictures and illustrations would make it much easier to comprehend.




Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
Major USAF
Retired
07-22-2005 07:44 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Sam Mc D
Heliman
Location: Lexington,KY--U.S.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		This probably should be "stickied" to the front page.
07-25-2005 06:27 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE  
 
 
sheva
Heliman
Location: West Harrison, N.Y.

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Horizon posting fixes to problems

I think horizon might be afraid that if they show they have a problem, they open the flood gates to anyone with an issue, to have there heli replaced.!
07-25-2005 06:55 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
jmsilhy
Senior Heliman
Location: Mexico City, Mexico

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Are they still being assembled wrong?

Hi, I've been reading so much about this little heli, that I decided to give it a try. I just ordered one and I wonder if they still assemble them the wrong way and if the fix is still necessary.

Any other mods/probems I should do to it before it's maden flight?

Thanks!
08-02-2005 05:08 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Jason Merkle
Senior Heliman
Location: Las Vegas, NV

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Models currently available are still assembled per the manual. Many of these models continue to perform well, but for those that do not, the mod that Boyd posted here along with others found on our Bulletin and Tips page can help:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/By...ProdID=EFLH1100

Future BCP models may indeed be updated once testing of other potential solutions has been completed.
08-02-2005 05:40 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
P-Factor
Heliman
Location:

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Blade CP "spindle removal" for Sticky Collective

Can anyone help "walk me through" correcting the "sticky collective" issues. I understand the concept, and can successfully remove one set of "screw and washers" by backing up the opposite side with a hex key; however, I am unable to remove the opposite side. I have had advise to just "pull it through" but it seems like it is being mechanically held in some fashion. I have reviewed the exploded schematics, but still cannot figure this one out. By the way, you may have guessed already, but this is my first experience with a heli. I just want to make sure I am armed with all the knowledge I can be before trying to fly. It seems as though the "sticky collective" issue is something I shouldn't deal with as a rookie heli pilot.

Thanks for any advice you can offer!!!
08-31-2005 05:01 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
VERTICALRC
Heliman
Location: SAN ANGELO, TX

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I thought the same thing that the blade grips were being held by something else. I called horizon hobbies and the tech said you just had to put a little musle in it and pull the grips apart. I removed one of the blade grip set bolts and put the heli on a table chest high. I put my elbows against my side and my fore arms below my chest. I braced my arms against my body in that position and used my wrist only to pull the grips apart. It took some force, but I got them apart. Bracing your arms should prevent you from slinging your heli across the room when the grips finally come loose. I hope this helps!
08-31-2005 06:31 AM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
johnny b
Senior Heliman
Location: Central Coast, CA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Saw a CP2 and Blade side-by-side at the LHS. Heli's are similar, but the heads are different, CP2 being bell-hiller, Blade being hiller set-up. Otherwise, same helicopter (except for the Blade's better looking canopy). Problem with the blade grip assembly/washer probably the same across both, the differences are in the top of the heads, not in the blade grips.
10-02-2005 11:28 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
avatar71
Senior Heliman
Location: East Amherst, NY

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I wanted to take a moment to commment on the customer support that Horizon Hobby has on this product. I bought one of the early release Blades some months ago. It was ok but developed some problems over time. Long story short... after two returns to Horizon Hobby, they replaced the WHOLE THING with a brand new one. They even replaced my aerobatics kit too. Not a single cost to me what so ever. I am amazed with their level of customer commitment. I will continue to buy Horizon Hobby products!!! Thanks guys!
10-04-2005 07:43 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
MattRandom
Heliman
Location: No where

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		This fix has proven impossible on my Blade. The bolts are so tight that I unfortunately stripped out one of the bolt heads. The bolt has a nice circular socket on it now. Due to the location of the bolt using pliers or vise grips is impossilble.

I guess I need to just hope and pray that I don't experience this issue.
10-13-2005 11:24 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
Jason Merkle
Senior Heliman
Location: Las Vegas, NV

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Matt -

As long as you are using good quality (preferably hardened tip) 1.5mm hex wrenches (like the one included in the kit) you should not have any problems stripping the socket heads when attempting to remove the screws from the spindle.

Be sure to avoid using some of the low-cost "ball" drivers for this as they often strip themselves of the screw before breaking the loctite bond. I always use the included hex wrench on one side and one of the Dynamite drivers on the other, and have never experienced any issues with stripping out the socket:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/By...?ProdID=DYN2900
10-14-2005 04:20 PM
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE  
 
 
2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ]31482 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
Power Helis . CANOMOD . Experience RC

.
.
e-E-Flite Blade MSR CP CX MCX 400-3D > Horizon Hobby Blade CP Sticking Collective Problem Resolved For Free!! :)
 Print TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Monday, November 23 - 9:14 pm - Copyright © 2000 - 2009 runryder.com | email | link to rr | START HERE | NF