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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > Solution to 3D Pro Tail Wag & Slop problem : Here is how w/ pics and vids
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

I had become very frustrated with my 3D pro, almost to the point of just sell it as many other have. There are still as few kinks that are still needing attention. Meanwhile, my main frustration came from main blade flutter / tracking issues w/ stock woodies and an intractable tail wag despite runnig all top notched components. I even tried moving everything (electronics) around to no avail. The only must is not having the gyro close to the motor. The rest of theoretical fancy rearrangements do not help, IMO.

Stock blades: some have flutter and tracking issues. I have some right here that need to go back. Meanwhile I have made some symmetricals to hold me over.

Tail wag: after moving gyro to the rear and eliminating all obvious vibs. the next step is to check the slop in you tail controll system. This is the kicker. I could not understand why it took me so long to remedy the tail on my bird especially after making blades past and dealing with blade grip/blade root issues before.

1.) The main reason most people are having trouble with tail wag is because there is too much slop in the tail system. It can be easily fixed with with small 4 washers. Without the washers, the slop creates vibration at high rpm, as the blades oscillate from side to side, while trying to counteract pitch / torque reaction changes. At this point no gyro in the world will cure this problem. The only solution is to stiffen up the tail system. The mod is simple, here's how:
05-25-2005 Over year old.
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

Get some of these little guys.



http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...?&I=LXK035&P=ML

The tail blade grips are 3mm wide, however, the tail blade roots are ~2.5 - 2.68 mm. Not good, even with trying to tighten the grips down, you create tracking issues as your blades will now cut into different planes. The is a problem at high rpm.


Solution:
Take one of these 0.5mm thick washers and fill up the grip in the tail grip. You have to use thin CA to make it easy for mounting the root.


Now, that the grip gaps are fixed. We have to move on to fixing the blade grip slop itself.

Remove the tail grips.

Take one washer and file it down from the ~6.3mm OD washer to ~5.3mm. I used a dremel against a stone. Be sure you also file the edges so that your washers don't interfer with the freely moving bearings.

Then insert the filed down washer into the rear of the blade grip. and mount it on, you will notice how much less slop there is in the tail system. You are now ready to spool up. Now, the gyro is much happier. And more important the pilot is much happier. The people who sold their hummers may regret it after they find out the solution only cost $0.65 cents for an 8 pack of small washers.

Tail mod process video:
http://runryder.com/helicopter/gall...mod_process.zip

Maiden video test of the tail mod in 10mph wind:
http://runryder.com/helicopter/gall..._10mph_wind.zip

I hope this helps you guys.

05-25-2005 Over year old.
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

Here is a video of the MTM 400F 2250kv motor w/ 20T pinion from www.justgofly.com doing a few modest power climbouts after I did the washer tail mod illustrated above. I'm now impressed with my hummer even at 423g. I will do some more testing with this motor before changing out the motor to test out my 400DF.

Video:
http://runryder.com/helicopter/gall...l_mod_climb.zip
05-25-2005 Over year old.
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

This thread and those like it need to be put up as a sticky. Because some people have been too lazy to search to solve problems when the solution to repeated questions are already posted.
06-08-2005 Over year old.
 
 
AussiJohn
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth Western Australia

Thanks for that Zoom. I am running ok with pro but have not abused it yet. Time o take that slop out of tail
06-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
crash-
Veteran
Location: Ca

AussiJohn
Do yourself a favor get a Trex
Problem gone.
IMHO
All my Century stuff is gone.
It was Xmas at the shop, I put it all in a box and said free.

Crash
06-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
AussiJohn
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth Western Australia

hey crash, you bashed the last thread on 3dpro. I am not giving up, it all works well, would still be if i did not hit my fence. Its a good heli. We are just making it a bit better.

You have to be a rep eh ?
06-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
crash-
Veteran
Location: Ca

AussiJohn
Try a Trex, check this out
http://www.align.com.tw/shop/produc...products_id=825
Still under the price of a Pro with the Pro upgrades
Just my .02 cents
Crash
06-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
AussiJohn
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth Western Australia

Hi zoom
That was a great fix on tail tracking, Thankyou very much. I think the pro is a great little heli and have posted what i have done also to other parts.
I just finished putting together a new tail, boom and crown gear and was running it in in the garage, tail was working great and gyro is happier as you said.
This bird is slowly becoming better and better.

It wont be long crash and you will want it back

06-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

Thanks, sometimes I think Century should have released the 3D to the guys who fly and tinker with these things the most. It seems that with the collaborative efforts of the Hummer community, and few of the reps, most of the issues have been worked out.

Century did listen to us by addressing that head on the last CP Hummer. That old flybar / CP mixing lever control system was way off in terms of responsiveness. The 3D Pro's head really responds now Jack. Now with epoxying the GB and stiffening the tail system with #2 washers, the tail sytem is pretty much solved.

I think the reason they did not go with a belted tail was that people feared it would rob the heli of power. The has not been the case surveying those who did the conversion on the Shogun, and those who own the TREX. I guess it would have been simple Just get a more powerful motor that weighs the same as stock like those JustGoFly.com motors. I would still buy a belt conversion if they ever came up with one for the Pro as they did with the new Swift 16. We may have to ask Century for a belted tail.

As far as the upgrades:
It is not far that any upgrades would be needed for great performance. But yet they should be more of a want. The only up grade that is needed IMO is the metal grips for more pitch. I just wish they were cheaper. The current swashplate bas been beefed up from the previous model, so the the one only adds weight IMO. I'm not trying to hurt sales, but merely trying to solve problems.

But Align did themselves a big favor making the TREX so cheap to have and maintain. Above all, I think this key factor that has knocked alot of wind out of the affection people once had for Century's micro helis.
06-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

I agree I really like my little 3d pro. However, after getting frustrated with the crappy tail design and actually makng a workable and flyable belt drive conversion i have given up gving Century anymore money. I have just purchased a 450XL trex with the CF Ice blue CCPM frame from heliworkz.com. All I can say is that Century should really take a look at the way Align does bussiness. The 450XL kit is top notch and makes the 3d Pro look like a toy.

I guess i will either sale the 3d pro as is very cheap for parts (needs a flybar sea saw) or just hang on to it and see if Century ever gets smart and makes some decent upgrades that solve the tail problems once and for all.

Also, Century needs to package the parts indvidually so i don't have to buy un-needed parts.

I do like the tail slop mod = Very simple and cheap. Nice job!!!
06-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Redman
Heliman
Location: San Jose

How many of you fly 3D?
06-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
zoom
Elite Veteran
Location: Galveston, Texas

I don't. I do more tinkering, building mods, and researching, than actual spending time flying, but that is my niche.
06-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
AussiJohn
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth Western Australia

I fly uncontrolled 3d now and getting better.

Have tried to punish the tail hard piros etc whenever I do a mod.

The coneing definately disappeared after the simple washer mod
even thrashing the tail side to side.
Its getting there guys, hang in there
06-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
blighty
Senior Heliman
Location: uk

i flu the Elite 3d but the tail was a bit unpredictable some times. so i got a 3d pro and the tail on the pro is worse. but i'm going to try Zoom's mod and hopefully i will have a dream tail.
06-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
garage_flyer
Key Veteran
Location: Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento area) U.S.

bump

bump
07-08-2005 Over year old.
 
 
genovia
Elite Veteran
Location: N UR NECK OF DA WOODS

Here's a Great mod.

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t188296p1/
07-08-2005 Over year old.
 
 
genovia
Elite Veteran
Location: N UR NECK OF DA WOODS

Or why not bling it up... Looks good, and slop free

07-08-2005 Over year old.
 
 
cudaboy_71
Elite Veteran
Location: sacramento, ca, u.s.

bump

if it ain't broke…break it.
07-11-2005 Over year old.
 
 
mpafonseca
Heliman
Location: Savannah, GA - USA

Hi,

I would like to ask if anyone knows if the Century machined tail set for the 3D Pro has one or two bearings for each grip? I was looking my heli before trying the Zoom´s mod and I verified that the main slop source is the bearing itself. If you use machined parts with the same bearing arrangement the slop will be there. Am I wrong?

Thanks,

Marco Paulo
Hummingbird Elite 3D Pro
Himax 2015-4100
CC25
3xHS55 + 1xHS50
GY401
GWS Naro 6rcvr
07-26-2005 Over year old.
 
 
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e-Century Hummingbird - Swift > Solution to 3D Pro Tail Wag & Slop problem : Here is how w/ pics and vids
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