RR Rated M For Mature
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 413 ONLINE 80 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
12 pages [ <<    <     2      3     ( 4 )     5      6     NEXT    >> ]9425 viewsPOST REPLY
Ron’s HeliProz South . MTA Hobbies . Model Rectifier Corp

.
.
Beginners Corner > KYOSHO EP CALBER M24 RTF
 
 
GEORPO
Heliman
Location: GREECE-ATHENS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum

Hello friends,

Thank you for all the support!

Things are getting better minute by minute.
Today I removed the trainning gear (broke into pieces after a small crash). I can take of and land perfectly without it. I did not imagine that it would be so easy.

I even took it outside and today was very windy.
I took of normally but I had to land again soon because my control was not good enough with the wind and I am sure that my neighbour did not want a M24 through his window...

One problem that I have and which is the reason of my last crash, is that after 1-2 minutes of hovering the nose starts to turn left and I have to correct the rudder completely right and then I loose control.

I think that the tail motor gets hot and does not behave right.
After a little time I take of again and everything is normal.
If this is the reason should I put a heat sink on the tail motor?
Won't this add extra weight to the tail???

Any comments-suggestions??

I also put a small heat sink that fits in the space under the main motor but it still gets veeeery hot. I think that it is a kyosho heat sink.

I tried to upload some photos but it says only on Monday free uploads..

I am planning to buy the EPS-9D brass pinion and the Align 350XR main motor on Saturday. Do you think that this motor will work with the 9.6V Ni Mh batteries?

Panos, you said that the CN12-00214 tail motor works with the Li Po 11.1V without the need of the diode. Am I correct? Does this motor have a pinion with the corect number of teeth or do I have to put one?

Thanks again and I hope that I will get a good bird in the future as Xterra says.

keep it high!!!

Georpo
07-13-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Xterra
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		The standard motor? It runs hot but nothing to be worry about it !!! Do not worry there are a bunch of cheap motor out there that can get the job done with the KM24. By the way, if you finally decide to go for a better bird -not as expensive as the Raptor. You might want to take a look at the E-flite, do a search here in RR and you will get a rough idea. That's a CCPM micro heli, I have not tried it but I'm telling you if it's got CCPM you will like it better. I believe the RTF kit is something like 200 bucks (radio inlcuded). It's kind of new stuff and because of the price people is buying it, you will hear a lot of comments about it. Moreover, they have a kit which is an upgrade to the standard configuration, runs with lipos -I know I have said this before but I'll bring it to the table again, get a good battery and charger like TP or KK, you might need it in the near future. Here is a link so you can have a peek, looks reasonable to me -I might end up getting one of those.

E-Flite

E-flite LINK

GV








Stratus
Raptor 50V2
T-rex SE
T-rex CDE
T-rex 250 SC
Kyosho M24
07-13-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
GEORPO
Heliman
Location: GREECE-ATHENS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Xterra,

What is CCPM?
200 bucks is about half the price of the M24...

What do you think about the Thunder Power Pro-Lite batteries?

It says they are lighter and more powerfull..

Georpo.
07-13-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Xterra
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		CCPM=collective cyclic pitch mix, this system is designed in such a way that 3 servos work together to control the collective and cyclic instead of having 1 servo for collective. If you do a search here, you'll find all the corresponding information, what I can tell you is that CCPM ROCKS a whole lot !!!!!! You will experience a much better fly experience -especially after dealing with the M24 which is really difficult to control. I have been reading about this E-lite guy and the conf is kinda of similar to the one in the M24 in the sense that it's got a brushed main and tail motors. The drawback again is the GY, I believe this guys are working in a new version with GY and brushless motor, let see.
Second, what I think about the TP Pro-lite, those are the ones I use, therefore I like them and very much by the way. They are not really cheap but they are a good choice. I have heard that the Kokams are really good, even better than the TP, never try them but looking forward to it. The pro-lites have an extra advantage, they come with the PIN connector for the balancer, just plug it and charge it forget about unbalanced cells or stuff -certain series of KK batteries also offered this extra pin for balancing. Do not get me wrong, when I said lighter I was comparing them versus the NiCD batts, I really do not know which is lighter between the TP and the KK.
I hope I've answered your questions, my advice read and then make up your mind and do not forget "beat the s#!t out of the M24 it won't mind" ain't no fancy machine but damn it is robust.

GV


Stratus
Raptor 50V2
T-rex SE
T-rex CDE
T-rex 250 SC
Kyosho M24
07-13-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
PanX
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens , Greece

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Tail Motor

George

you start to loose your tail and feel hotty the tail motor sooner than in the past because tail motor brushes start to get damage (there are three very thin and fragile whires, no carbon brushes).

i found out that the CN12-00214 (5.5E) its much more robust and can accept the 11.1V without noticeable warm (for the first 30 fligths at least).

As for the pinion. You will use the pinion (and wires and capacitor) from the old motor. Carefully you will put out the pinion of the old motor (carefully not to damage the pinion the motor will go to heaven ) and using a vise you will put it on the new motor. Be carefful closing the vise to put force ONLY TO THE AXIS of the motors rotating axis otherwise you will destroy the new motor.

Now with that heavy rain i have to postpone all the concrete work, so i really dont know if i am here on saturday. When i know i will give you a call. It will be nice to come here after Halandri and we will put together the new motor and pinions on yourt heli. (you can count on 2 more 9.6V batteries to use here )

but as i said i cant promise nothing.

Be aware that how hard tail motor works depends highly on how good your blades tracking is.

In general with good tracking you feel the heli much much lighter and more controlable.


Xterra still i can not figure out why tail and mains motor teeth must be even.. ok.. to the other side i used to play a lot with gyro gain and mixing.. so thats why i didnt notice any differences changing pinions?

have a nice time
Panos
07-14-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
GEORPO
Heliman
Location: GREECE-ATHENS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hello everybody!

Panos, the tail motor is new.I replaced it 3 days ago. Something else is going wrong and I loose the tail after a while. Tracking is also good after I replaced the YOKE A.

I will try the configuration that you propose anyway. I am sure that it will be OK.

See ya!!!
07-14-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Xterra
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Panos,

Not an expert but I believe the tail speed should be at least double of the one in the main motor; if not you will start having problems to compensate it. What happened to me when I got a 13T on the main motor and the 10T in the tail one, the heli kept spinning counter clock wise no matter what I did. I checked the RPM in both and the tail motor was way behind the main motor. Now, what you mean with GY gain, trimming? If you meant trimming with the 13T pinion on the main motor there was no way the trimming will compensate it, the heli keeps spinning. I kinda of stop experimenting with the M24 because I got the T-rex and "man" there is no way you can compare the two of them. I can hover it in my living room which is not a large one. Let's go back to the KM24, I'll go to my LHS and see if I can get a pinion for the tail and replace the old one -I replaced the tail motor with a CN long time ago. Now regarding changing pinions, what I did was to dremmel the motor shaft, some CA the pinion and there you go, NO MORE PLASTIC ONES.
Ok guys, let me know how is everything over there,

GV


Stratus
Raptor 50V2
T-rex SE
T-rex CDE
T-rex 250 SC
Kyosho M24
07-14-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
GEORPO
Heliman
Location: GREECE-ATHENS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi everybody!

Listen to something strange about the tail problem.
I place a fresh charged batterie and I have problem controling the tail.
This battery seems to be full because I have enough lift power.

I take the battery off, put on another fresh one with no other adjustments and there it goes. I have perfect control.

I must tell you that I charge the batteries by connecting them to my DC power supply at about 1 amper for 15-20 minutes and not with a charger. Maybe this has damaged the batteries and they cannot charge with the kyosho charger anymore.

Anyway I am 100% sure that it is a matter of power!

Today I had only a little time to practice but everything was cool.
Good hovering nice landings without the trainning gear.
I even managed to take off from the top of my table and land on the floor!! Too risky for me...

Something else that gives me trouble is that when I lift the M24 over the height of my head I get a little confused because I look at it from below.
So, I lower the height immediatelly because I am afraid that I will crash from that height. With this way, I can not avoid the ground effect yet.

I can control it hovering at the height of my eyes and below.
Maybe I should have some more room so I can look at the M24 from far away and not get so confused. I hope that the wind will stop and I will have the chance to take it OUT!!!

I am also looking for a stabilizer bar to put on the screws of the main blades but untill now I cannot find any. Maybe I will find on Saturday at the place where Panos suggested.

Greetings,

Georpo.
07-14-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
PanX
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens , Greece

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hello

Dear Xterra with gyro gain and mixing i mean that the mixer pot on m24 does just that.. manage the balance between main rotor torgue and tail counter torgue. So changing teeth, voltage, rotor KV for sure you have to play with gyro mix and after that find the maximum gain point to have a sensinitive enough tail.

Glad to learn that you going well with TRex. Looking its videos i like it VERY much. As for the tail waging problem you had the other time i once in lhs heard a friend who has such a problem because of his lipo. Lipo could not gave out the amperes needed for the heli wich cause a severe voltage drop and not proper operation of the HH gyro.

Yesterday i fire up the TT50 for the first time. I am still too far to say that i manage to tune it but i am in a good way with that

GY401 is out of stock globally LHS promise me that they will have it the next week. Till then i can not make thougths fly the raptor. As for simulator i could never fly the M24 without the picofly simulator. Without it i was in George situation who doubt every momment the conditiion of the heli because he can not reallise that its just as that: unstable and difficult till the time you find the way to control it.

I use also FMS dailly . I know that it is far away G3 and XTR regarding the physics but having the M24 i relly most on the real thing to sharpness my reactions and use FMS just for orientation trainning.

thats all for today folks.

George if you intend to come here tomorrow just send a sms. I live in Holargos very near Halandri. Send a sms and i will call you back for detaills.

have a nice time
Panos
07-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
Xterra
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hmmmmmm !!!!!!!

I'm dumb, I still do not understand how you managed to keep the RPM higher on the tail with a pinion with less T. The M24 GY is not very sophisticated -it actually sucks- you have to keep changing the inputs on the rudder to keep it right. Now when I change the pinion on the main motor, the GY could not get the job done. What it is currently happening to me is that the heli keeps spinning to the left even when the trim is all the way to the right along with the left stick, I just can not get it right. I checked the RPM in both motors with the heli fixed to the table and the RPM are way higher on the main motor no matter what I do, moreover, when I switch back to the 10T pinion I gain back control over the rudder (still need trimming but you can accomplish it). My bet is that the tail motor is falling short -I have tried only two tail motors the original one and the CN one, both motors behave about the same. I started flirting with the idea of modifying the M24 significantly (new servos and swash plate to see how it goes but I figure I will need to get a new ESC. Anyhow, let me know how everything is going over there. BTW, I talked to Jeremy (RCH) not long ago and he told me he has the FUT401 in stock, this is the link to his site FUTABA GY 401. Give him a call or just go ahead and order it because if you send him an e-mail it will take several days before he responses. You sure you want to mix and match the servos on your R50? It does not sound right to me but it just a feeling.
Come on !!!!! upload some pics so we can take a look of your new baby,

GV


Stratus
Raptor 50V2
T-rex SE
T-rex CDE
T-rex 250 SC
Kyosho M24
07-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
Xterra
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		BTW

Georpo,

You will be better off with a sim, besides saving you lot of money in crashes it also gives you a lot of fun in those rainy or cold days. Keep it in mind is worth every penny.

GV


Stratus
Raptor 50V2
T-rex SE
T-rex CDE
T-rex 250 SC
Kyosho M24
07-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
GEORPO
Heliman
Location: GREECE-ATHENS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi,

I have a Colco thunderbird coming in about 4-5 days. It has a simulator, cables etc. This was the helicopter that I originally ordered through the internet. The M24 came as a surprise gift from my girlfriend. She did not know that I had already ordered one..

I can now say that I have some control over the M24 but I still have problems with tracking.

The YOKE A that holds the main blades has two ball joints and the one of them is longer than the other. Does anybody know which one is the correct connection? I have tried both of them but I never get good tracking which gives me tail and lift problems.

Panos I want to come tomorrow but I lent by GPS to my boss and I am completely stranger to Holargos and Halandri.
Anyway if I finally get to the shop, I will give you a call and if you are availlable, we meet. I do not want to cause you any trouble.
By the way today I visited Thodoris in sepolia. He told me that you never leave an original configuration to anything. You always make changes improvements etc. He's a nice guy.

Something else. Does anybody know what the voltage of a fully charged and fully discharged NiMh battery should be?

I made a constant current charger with LM317. It works ok but I do not know at what voltage I should stop charging!

Georpo.
07-15-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
PanX
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens , Greece

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		George

because charging (as you allready know) is chemical reactions i dont think that there are exact voltage values to take in consideration for a full and safe charge. My 6 V NiCads when i charge them with the 13.5V 5A PS show of course 13.2V when i put them off the charger (they didnt took any harm but for sure i will not do it again it was an emergency).

The sophisticated chargers, as i know, check the charge/dicharge rate of the battery (with small disharges to the end of charge period) and not the voltage.

In general i know that a nicad or nimh batt consider charged when start to getting warm. Then you have put it out of charger. The longer you let it get hot the more damage you do to its chemics.

There many pages on net to read about proper handling of nicad and nimih. For sure for times to times you have to give them a deep recharge and then a SLOW recharge (for say a 700mah batt you have to keep the PS output amperes below 100mah with 1.2V per cell). Excpet the memory effect thats a way to be sure that any cell in the battery pack will get the same amount of charge.

Have a nice time with the new heli and good fligths.

Panos
07-16-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
GEORPO
Heliman
Location: GREECE-ATHENS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hellooooo!!!

Had a bussy-flying weekend?? I did!
Good hovering and some silly crashes. When the battery voltage drops the M24 tends to turn the nose left and I must land before something bad happens...

Xterra you said that you have Thunder Power Pro-Lite series Batteries
those with the balance connector and I guess the 11.1V-2000mah.Right? Ok, I saw at helihobby that the 2 cell Thunder Power Pro-Lite gives 11.1V. Is this possible? Don't you need 3 cells for 11.1V?

Anyway, from what I understood you need to have wires for each cell of a LIPO pack in order to balance the cells. Right? So, why does only the Thunder Power Pro-Lite series have balance connector?

And something else how do you charge-balance the pack?
First on the charger and then the balancer?

Happy flying!!!

Georpo.
07-17-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Xterra
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
The YOKE A that holds the main blades has two ball joints and the one of them is longer than the other. Does anybody know which one is the correct connection? I have tried both of them but I never get good tracking which gives me tail and lift problems


I believe you are referring to the aileron and elevator links? I do not have the manual here but I remember the lengths were different (this swashplate does not have a symmetrical links in both sides). If you take a look to the manual you will figure it out yourself. I changed the length on the one that controls the elevator so I could keep the heli in neutral.

Regarding the heli going to the left after some minutes, I just could not get rid of that behavior when you start running out of battery the tail rotor won't be feed properly. The lipo batteries helped a little bit though -you can also have longer fly times if you switch to lipos. Now, talking about the TP, yes, you're right I have the 3s 2000 (11.1v). You're also right about the 2s packs the voltage should be 7.4 not 11.1 -you might have seen the 3s not the 2s. Here is the link to TP batteries I can not see any 2s with 11.1 all of them are 7.4 Thunder Power Batteries

The PRO-LITE series has the pin balancer connector already soldered to the battery so you do not need to do anything else but plug it to the balancer (some of the KK batteries also have balancer connector which is compatible with the TP balancer, I do not know if KK has its own balancer).

The balancer is really simple to use, you just need to plug the battery to the balancer via the pin and the balancer will tell ya if the pack is balanced or not, if it's not balanced it will balance it for you, then you just go ahead and charge the pack. I'll take a couple of pictures of how I do it and I'll also place them on my gallery. I'm telling you when batteries are used extensively you better have them balanced. You have to have a voltmeter so you can check if the battery is being recharged properly, for instance the 3s 2000-11.1 should be about 12.6 v after the recharging process "batteries that has lost 20% should be disposed"


Stratus
Raptor 50V2
T-rex SE
T-rex CDE
T-rex 250 SC
Kyosho M24
07-18-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
PanX
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens , Greece

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Yoke A, tail blades length

Hi

George you are the first here who notice that YOKE A balls have different lengths. You are rigth i fly with the short one. I can imagine that the longer one will give me a more sensinitive cyclic.

Xterra i read to several forums a lot of stories of how weak M24s tail is etc etc. As i allready report here my current configuration is 2 align micro servos with piccoboard pro (heading hold gyro) and the tail stays rock solid on course. The point here is that while the piccoboard esc is capable to use the stock tail blades to keep a str8 heli (max rating of tail esc is 2Amps) that means that there are no some design flow on tail blades of M24 (and note that it could keep the tail in track even with the brushless motor =more than 2200 rpm of main rotor=).

My conclusion is that M24s unauthorative tail problem is due Gyro-mixing bad design, mostly because of the changes on main rotors RPM because of rapid dishcharge rate of the stock battery (with the stock fligth unit and Lipo playing with the mixing pot i had a fair enough stable tail).

Dailly small circuits with M24 here. I fire the TT50 twice and if my job permit it i will have the first test fligths on Rappy these weekend.

have a nice time there folks

Panos, SV1COX
07-19-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
GEORPO
Heliman
Location: GREECE-ATHENS

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hello!

Panos, I fly with the long ball on YOKE A and I find it to be more stable.

I can not get perfect tracking with none of the two (long or short) ball joints but the M24 flyes well and reasonably stable so I prefer the long one that I think is more responsive.

Please tell me about your LI POs. I think that the electrifly does not have balance connector. How do you balance the cells? Or you do not...

Also how much flight time do you get with 1500mah and Xterra how much do you get with 2000mah?

Today I will go to the shop near Pano's home and buy the EPS-9D brass pinion the Align 350XR main motor and CN12-00214 tail motor.
I have to get ready for the LIPOs. I will order the batteries as soon as I decide which is best.

I still get confused when the M24 gets high over my head and I look it from below.
I think it is a matter of time and training..

Have a nice day everybody!

Georpo.
07-19-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   GALLERY
 
 
Xterra
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Batteries

You're right again I do not think the electrify have balancer connectors. I have not flown the M24 for a while (need to change the pinion on the tail) but when I was working on it, I kept my fly times to 13 minutes (my lucky number). What I mean is that I never abuse my packs (actually I'm really softy when it comes to batteries) I'm sure I could fly longer than that because I tipically ended up with more than 10 plus volts


Stratus
Raptor 50V2
T-rex SE
T-rex CDE
T-rex 250 SC
Kyosho M24
07-19-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
PanX
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens , Greece

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		About the same flytime as Xterra i guess... "flytime" is a difficult thing to estimate after all.. i think that means how long can you keep the heli hovering in a reasonable hight (about 1.5 m up) with total tail control. I never time it yet But i can play with the heli over one hour (small fligths, 8's and various exercises, landing, wait about a minute to cool the motor, up again and so on).

No electrifly has not a "balance" connector. It has a "safecharge" connector only. Till now i have over 80 charges and no probs (well i keep my fingers crossed )

The battery fit nice in inverted battery holder with the canopy modiffications you can see on my pics.

Xterra whats up with TRex? what is the average flytime? Did you start 3D with it? How about crashes? is it durable enough?

Panos, SV1COX
07-19-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
Xterra
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi Panos

Quote 
Xterra whats up with TRex? what is the average flytime? Did you start 3D with it? How about crashes? is it durable enough?



The T-rex project is going really good. I'm keeping my fly time to 8 min, this time leaves me with 10plus volts on the TP2000. I'm using the cutoff value at 9.0 volts so I do not hurt my batteries but I don get even close to this number so I think 11-12 minutes should be easily reach with my current set up (TP2000, MEGA 16/15/3, 13T pinion). Forget about 3D, I have not even started doing any acrobatic maneuvers yet still doing some fine tuning. I have not crashed this guy yet since I have been just hovering and doing some circuits the chances of crashing are pretty slim when you do not get into roll, loops or stuff like that. Durable I think it is, there are some parts that are really fragile like the skids but I believe they were designed this way so the frame does not suffer severe damage during the collision. Summarizing, I believe I made a very good decision with this guy since I was looking for something I can fly in my backyard. It will give me the confidence to try new stuff because I know that a crash won't be as expensive as it'd be with my raptor. BTW, how is your Raptor coming along? I'll be posting some pics next week in my gallery to show you guys the progress with my helis.
Talk to you soon,


GV


Stratus
Raptor 50V2
T-rex SE
T-rex CDE
T-rex 250 SC
Kyosho M24
07-20-2005 Over year old.
PROFILE   PM   EMAIL   POSTS   BUDDY   IGNORE   HOMEPAGE   GALLERY
 
 
12 pages [ <<    <     2      3     ( 4 )     5      6     NEXT    >> ]9425 viewsPOST REPLY
EDGE Rotorblades . ReadyHeli . Power Helis

.
.
Beginners Corner > KYOSHO EP CALBER M24 RTF
 Print TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Saturday, March 20 - 10:41 am - Copyright © 2000 - 2010 runryder.com | email | link to rr | START HERE | NF