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e-MS Composit Hornet > Hornet Stings Itself!
 
 
r1ggaSenior Heliman - Location: Canterbury, UK - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Well... It could have been worse, actually I think I got off pretty lightly:



How did this come about?

Well I got the H2 in July last year and in the 7 months I've had it it has given me nothing but grief. The tail has never been happy not even for a second. Yes.. you guessed it, the dreaded wag.

I can't even get the tail to hold when my GY240 is in normal mode. It will hold initially, but at any given point the tail will slowly start to wander. This I attributed to the slop in the tail mechanism, so today I went to my LHS and picked up some ball links and managed to get rid of all the play in the tail system. In the process I reconstructed the tail mechanism to ensure everything was as it should be. When I screwed the tail blade grips back on I noticed that one of them had a bit of play. In retrospect this was probably due to the thread being minimally stripped due to over tightening. I had just installed my new tail servo linkage, the slop was gone and the mechanism was the smoothest it has ever been, so I had to test it out right?

I lifted up into the hover (non-HH) and there was a slight pyro, so I adjust the ball link and put it back up into an IGE hover, the tail was spot on.. or so I thought.

Then it started to slowly drift left so I countered with some left rudder input, that fixed it, but then the tail started drifting right, I still had some wag, but it was better than before.

Then CRACK and something white flew past my head, my first reaction was that a ball link had disconnected so I killed the throttle and the heli sank back down.

&%*$.. you guessed it the white thing was the tail blade (with holder still attached), unfortunately after it had stripped its thread it flew into the vertical fin, snapping it and taking out my HS50 in the process. The tail blade itslef only suffered a hairline fracture.

Total damage £30, but I can bring it down to about £10 if I buy HS50 cogs and CA it bak together, CA the hairline fracture in the tail blade and make my own vertical fin out of an old credit card.

r1gga
02-24-2005 Over year old.
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r1ggaSenior Heliman - Location: Canterbury, UK - My Posts This: Topic  Forum
So now I face the dilemma: "Do I continue to fiddle with this little beast?"

I am tempted to sell it, but would like to get some opinions on exactly what is the source of my tail woes. Also the cyclic response is truly pathetic, but first the tail! The heli is very nice to look at (on the ground at least!).



- MS Composit One-way auto hub
- GY240
- HS50 (tail, fin mounted)
- 3 x Bluebird BMS 380 (cyclic)
- Protech Micro Rx
- Tail slider connected to servo hole using ball links
- Everything else stock

Is the HS50 to blame for the wag? Should I mount the servo in the stock location? Should I shout at it?

Help would be appreciated.

PS. If you are in the Kent area and are a samaritan sort of person then I will buy you some beers and / or pay your petrol if you are willing to lend a hand.

r1gga
02-24-2005 Over year old.
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Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Throw that HS-50 in the garbage and try a Futaba 3108. After doing the anti-slop mod on my HS-50, all was well for a while, but then the tail wag returned. My H2 has the MicroHeli tail gearbox, shaft and bellcrank, pitch slider w/ SS sleeve, and ball link on the tail pushrod. Walt's CF tailblades perfectly balanced with no vibrations at 3200 head speed.
With no other changes, I swapped in the Futaba 3108 and the tail holds rock solid at 50% on the MS44 gyro.
02-24-2005 Over year old.
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r1gga
Senior Heliman
Location: Canterbury, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		OK Here what I'm going to get

- CLP0022 : Tail Fin & Servo Mount - Hornet II (Heliup)
- Futaba 3108 : For tail, (will it fin the HS50 servo mount above?)
- MS-E032 : Blade Grip - Tail
- MS-E027 : Bell Crank Retainer
- MS-E036 : Tail Blades
- MS-230 : Bell Hiller Mixer Conversion - Hornet II

Any recommendations? For the cost, which is like £60, I'm contemplating getting another kit!

r1gga
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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justJevvy
Heliman
Location: UK - Reading

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hello r1gga

Sounds like you have been havin a few problems - I had the same when I started with the H2 but found once you get it sorted it is really nice and seems to stay sorted - Keep going is what I'm saying.

A few comments:

BH mixer is good but you must use the weighted blades of you will get a boom strike

Tail fin and Servo mount - I bought a duzi servo only mount and I use it with an MS10 servo and it is ace.

I have also dropped the tail fin in favour of a tail support and have had no problems and it keeps my tail rotor off the ground, see this post for details.

I have also upgraded to the new MS tail rotor (some may say downgraded) however i have found it to be spot on and hassle free since I fitted it - I used be always trying to get the tail to hold with the original tail rotors and hardly ever managed it.

New model instead - maybe not as you wont get the BH mixer unless you get one of the newest kits that I think have it already

I get all my parts from Skyline models and they are pretty H2 savvy there and very helpfull

I dont live very close (Reading) but if you need more help let me know and maybe we can talk on the phone or MSN

Good luck and Chin up

X3D, Twister & Duzi Swash
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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bobj
Veteran
Location: United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi

The HS 50 and 240 will give great tail performance but the standard tail grips can be a fiddle to get right at times, your best option would be
to fit the one-piece tail upgrade, this looks like Sh#t but works very very well and is only a tenner for the complete conversion pack.

The cyclic should not be slow on the Hornet, make sure you have plenty of swash deflection and fit the bell hiller if you don't yet have this.
Worse case bring it up to us and we can check it over for you.

Cheers
Bob J
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I don't think the Futaba 3108 will fit the HeliUp CLP0022 as the hole spacing is different compared to an HS-50. Buy the CLP0025 tail grips instead, and mount a 3108 up front with any of the popular servo holders.
For the MS bell hiller, make sure to replace the plastic pins on the E172 with bolts as the pins break off very easily.
http://www.deeteeenterprises.com/NS...ixerUpgrade.php
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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bobj
Veteran
Location: United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi
-----------------
For the MS bell hiller, make sure to replace the plastic pins on the E172 with bolts as the pins break off very easily
------------------
FYI the MS bell hiller will shortly come through with bolts rather than pins, this is what will come as standard on the X 3D.

Cheers
Bob J
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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r1gga
Senior Heliman
Location: Canterbury, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Looking at my bank account I can't really spare for the bell-hiller mxining + weighted blades, so I think I will wait untill I have the tail sorted and the heli happily in the sky. That way when I get around to getting the bell-hiller mod they will also likely have better pins.

I'm going to have a look at the stuff thats been recommended and I'll post details in a bit.

bobj - Where abouts are you located in the event of assistance being required?

Thanks for the feedback guys

r1gga
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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r1gga
Senior Heliman
Location: Canterbury, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		What is meant by one-piece tail upgrade? I can't find anything matching that description...

r1gga
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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bobj
Veteran
Location: United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi

------------------
What is meant by one-piece tail upgrade? I can't find anything matching that description...

-------------------
This is a new part from MS and is standard on the new Hornet X FP and X CP, it's a one-piece tail blade so just push's on to the output shaft and is completely bearingless as the plastic it's self acts as the hinge/bearing.
As I said it is nothing to look at but works very well and replaces 11 parts with 1!
-----------------
bobj - Where abouts are you located in the event of assistance being required?
------------------

Sorry thought you knew, Skyline is on the west side of London about 20 minutes up the M40 off of the M25.

Cheers
Bob
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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Raffy
Elite Veteran
Location: Chicago, Illinois

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		I have an MS Hornet CP. After so much grief putting this heli together to make it fly great, I finally realized I like this heli so much for the thrill of finding ways to make it fly without breaking any thing.
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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justJevvy
Heliman
Location: UK - Reading

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Quick question....

"For the MS bell hiller, make sure to replace the plastic pins on the E172 with bolts as the pins break off very easily"

Is this a must have change or do only some seem to break - mine has been fine so far and has maybe 20 batteries through it since fitting.

If it is a must have fix (id rather it didnt fail to be honest) then what do you guys use to replace the plastic peg?

Thanks in advance

X3D, Twister & Duzi Swash
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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r1gga
Senior Heliman
Location: Canterbury, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Thanks for the advice guys I just order the following from Skyline:

- MS 1 piece tail (E405) (note - not on the website yet)
- Duzi Tail Servo Mount (MT3001)
- MS Carbon Tail Fin (E244)

I can't wait for my solid tail! I'm gunna be using a Futaba 3108 servo.

My HS50 is in pieces and needs replacement gears, as you can see in the pic I think I am also missing a pin, which I can't find on any site, so I guess its headed for the trash. Unless anyone has better ideas.

Next mission: Getting some cyclic response!

r1gga
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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bobj
Veteran
Location: United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi
-------------------
"For the MS bell hiller, make sure to replace the plastic pins on the E172 with bolts as the pins break off very easily"

Is this a must have change or do only some seem to break - mine has been fine so far and has maybe 20 batteries through it since fitting.

--------------------

The issue with the older bell hiller is the pins break a little easy in a crash, it won't break in the air.

Best regards
Bob
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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justJevvy
Heliman
Location: UK - Reading

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Sounds like I should fly till I crash and break it then, I only do mild flying anyway so doubt im stressing it too much!

Cheers

X3D, Twister & Duzi Swash
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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Lowell Foo
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		After I did the bolt upgrade on mine, the next crash the E172 itself snapped where the bolt goes through. I ended up buying the Duzi bell-hiller set, which is what I should have done from the start.

$37 for a bunch of plastic bits???
http://www.deeteeenterprises.com/NS...Hillermixer.php

$53.50 for quality aluminum parts that will not break.
http://heli-bling.com/bell_hiller.htm
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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bobj
Veteran
Location: United Kingdom

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		Hi

---------------------
After I did the bolt upgrade on mine, the next crash the E172 itself snapped where the bolt goes through. I ended up buying the Duzi bell-hiller set, which is what I should have done from the start.
---------------------

The new bell hiller is beefed up around the bolt holes, so it seems MS do listen:-)

BTW just put two flights on my X 3D today, really impressed with it as I think it fly's as well as my H2 with all the bling on it.

Cheers
Bob
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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r1gga
Senior Heliman
Location: Canterbury, UK

My Posts This: Topic  Forum		bob, would you be able to put together some video of the 3d X??

It would be the first I've seen.

Thanks,

r1gga
02-25-2005 Over year old.
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Fit
Senior Heliman
Location: Temasek

My Posts This: Topic  Forum
Quote 
bob, would you be able to put together some video of the 3d X??


That and some pictures too would be greatly appreciated

Hornet X3D : GY401, 9CHP, AXI, MS116+____Evo 50, 50SXH
02-26-2005 Over year old.
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